Cubs hire Craig Counsell as manager

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

Ross would still be the manager if COunsell didn't walk into the Cubs front office asking to be hired. Replacing Ross with the best manager in baseball doesn't mean the Cubs thought Ross was bad. They did this move because you get the best guy on the market.

That’s not what happened.

This is a silly argument.

Morel has the worst plate discipline in baseball if you exclude Javier Baez and Maddon was hitting him 3rd in front of Bellinger with the season hanging in the balance in Arizona.

The benefit of an elite hitter like Bellinger is the pitcher knows walking the hitter in front of him is a disaster and he gets good pitches to hit.

Ross removed that from the equation because Morel will swing at just about anything.

That decision cost us 2 games and we missed the playoffs.

Add in throwing Assad and his 1 ERA over a month out of the rotation for Marcus Stroman, the worst second half pitcher in baseball, and Ross made decisions that cost himself his job.

If he even did a mediocre job as manager, the Cubs don’t spend $40,000,000 for a new one.

Also, Hoyer reached out to Counsell first from reports.

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

That’s not what happened.

This is a silly argument.

Morel has the worst plate discipline in baseball if you exclude Javier Baez and Maddon was hitting him 3rd in front of Bellinger with the season hanging in the balance in Arizona.

The benefit of an elite hitter like Bellinger is the pitcher knows walking the hitter in front of him is a disaster and he gets good pitches to hit.

Ross removed that from the equation because Morel will swing at just about anything.

That decision cost us 2 games and we missed the playoffs.

Add in throwing Assad and his 1 ERA over a month out of the rotation for Marcus Stroman, the worst second half pitcher in baseball, and Ross made decisions that cost himself his job.

If he even did a mediocre job as manager, the Cubs don’t spend $40,000,000 for a new one.

Also, Hoyer reached out to Counsell first from reports.

What happened here is pretty obvious.

Hoyer reviewed the season, said it wasn’t necessary to hit a struggling Suzuki in the heart of the order for 3 months straight while he posted a .601 OPS. Noticed all the 1 run losses in that stretch. Noticed the bullpen management failures. Noticed hitting a struggling undisciplined hitter first and third in several big games. And determined with competent managing, the Cubs would have made the playoffs. And then spent an ungodly amount of money to fix a glaring problem.

 

[Bearcub13]

Our first visit to Milwaukee is going to be fun next season. Win or lose it will be fun to see him come onto the field and see the crowd's reaction. I think a good chunk of the Milwaukee faithful would normally applaud a returning manager, but now that he has gone over to the Cubs I think a lot Brewer fans will boo.

 

[knoxville7]

That’s not what happened.

This is a silly argument.

Morel has the worst plate discipline in baseball if you exclude Javier Baez and Maddon was hitting him 3rd in front of Bellinger with the season hanging in the balance in Arizona.

The benefit of an elite hitter like Bellinger is the pitcher knows walking the hitter in front of him is a disaster and he gets good pitches to hit.

Ross removed that from the equation because Morel will swing at just about anything.

That decision cost us 2 games and we missed the playoffs.

Add in throwing Assad and his 1 ERA over a month out of the rotation for Marcus Stroman, the worst second half pitcher in baseball, and Ross made decisions that cost himself his job.

If he even did a mediocre job as manager, the Cubs don’t spend $40,000,000 for a new one.

Also, Hoyer reached out to Counsell first from reports.

you dont even know who the manager this past season was lol

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

you dont even know who the manager this past season was lol

Yes, a typo totally changes the fact I was right and you were wrong lol.

Maddon was a clown as well, but I doubt even he would be dumb enough to hit an MVP caliber hitter 4th for 4 months in a DH era when the Cubs don’t have elite hitters to put in at the 2 or 3 spot.

It’s nice to have Bellinger on deck with the final out once or twice a month in a 1 run game. High IQ baseball!

 

[knoxville7]

Yes, a typo totally changes the fact I was right and you were wrong lol.

Maddon was a clown as well, but I doubt even he would be dumb enough to hit an MVP caliber hitter 4th for 4 months in a DH era when the Cubs don’t have elite hitters to put in at the 2 or 3 spot.

It’s nice to have Bellinger on deck with the final out once or twice a month in a 1 run game. High IQ baseball!

yeah, the only guy to lead the cubs to a world series in the last 115 years is a clown...but certainly not you!!

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Is hoyer going to fire himself for supplying piss poor parts for a rotation and bullpen that was "mismanaged"?

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

yeah, the only guy to lead the cubs to a world series in the last 115 years is a clown...but certainly not you!!

Having the most talented roster in baseball by a wide margin helped I would imagine.

Yes, someone who pitches Chapman in a 9-2 game when he’s pitched every game of the series and multiple days in a row and you know you’ll need him for 2 innings or more the next night is an absolute clown.

And his moronic decisions in game 6 almost cost us game 7. Frankly, it should have. He got insanely lucky that none of Chapman’s meatballs were crushed into the seats in the bottom of the 9th.

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

Is hoyer going to fire himself for supplying piss poor parts for a rotation and bullpen that was "mismanaged"?

The dbacks beat us out and took 6 of 7 from Ross’s Cubs with a significantly worse rotation and bullpen by any objective metric.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

The dbacks beat us out and took 6 of 7 from Ross’s Cubs with a significantly worse rotation and bullpen by any objective metric.

Soooo is that a no then?

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

Soooo is that a no then?

Hoyer gave this team enough talent to make the playoffs, while also building a top 3 farm system in baseball.

So no, he shouldn’t fire himself. He fired the man who held the team back, and will add talent to the roster as well.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Hoyer gave this team enough talent to make the playoffs, while also building a top 3 farm system in baseball.

So no, he shouldn’t fire himself. He fired the man who held the team back, and will add talent to the roster as well.

His bullpen and rotation were both bad. His starting 3b and 1b that he gave the manager to start the season were atrocious.

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

His bullpen and rotation were both bad. His starting 3b and 1b that he gave the manager to start the season were atrocious.

Cubs had a 3.85 bullpen ERA
Arizona had a 4.22 bullpen ERA
Miami had a 4.37 bullpen ERA

But if you choose to pretend the Cubs’ pen was too terrible to make the playoffs, go ahead. All evidence to the contrary.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Cubs had a 3.85 bullpen ERA
Arizona had a 4.22 bullpen ERA
Miami had a 4.37 bullpen ERA

But if you choose to pretend the Cubs’ pen was too terrible to make the playoffs, go ahead. All evidence to the contrary.

The cubs opening day bullpen consisted of Fulmer who was the big FA acquisition and was awful early and late before being injured, Merriweather who was a nobody that struggled early but Ross stuck with him until he started pitching well and was likely our most consistent arm all year, boxberger another FA acquisition who was useless, alzolay and Thompson were the only arms that seemed like upside plays going into the year, but Thompson sucked, Rucker garbage, Leiter was mediocre the year before and good last year until he was needed down the stretch, and Assad who struggled early then was great once in the rotation.

It definitely wasn't a great group to work with. Ross got the most out of them most of the year but the last month there wasn't anybody healthy/effective other than Merriweather. And the rotation wasn't great either so having one BP arm who could be relied on was an issue the gm created.

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

The cubs opening day bullpen consisted of Fulmer who was the big FA acquisition and was awful early and late before being injured, Merriweather who was a nobody that struggled early but Ross stuck with him until he started pitching well and was likely our most consistent arm all year, boxberger another FA acquisition who was useless, alzolay and Thompson were the only arms that seemed like upside plays going into the year, but Thompson sucked, Rucker garbage, Leiter was mediocre the year before and good last year until he was needed down the stretch, and Assad who struggled early then was great once in the rotation.

It definitely wasn't a great group to work with. Ross got the most out of them most of the year but the last month there wasn't anybody healthy/effective other than Merriweather. And the rotation wasn't great either so having one BP arm who could be relied on was an issue the gm created.

I don’t think Hoyer was trying to win a title last year, the window to win is obviously the next 3-4 years.

I’m going to stay pretty resolute on the fact that the Cubs had more talent than the Diamondbacks or Marlins and lost to both of those teams head to head and ultimately in the standings because of some head scratching decisions by Ross.

Is Ross the worst manager ever? No, but he is bottom 10 probably. Or was. Hoyer upgraded a bottom 10 manager to the best.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

I don’t think Hoyer was trying to win a title last year, the window to win is obviously the next 3-4 years.

I’m going to stay pretty resolute on the fact that the Cubs had more talent than the Diamondbacks or Marlins and lost to both of those teams head to head and ultimately in the standings because of some head scratching decisions by Ross.

Is Ross the worst manager ever? No, but he is bottom 10 probably. Or was. Hoyer upgraded a bottom 10 manager to the best.

I think Ross is middle of the pack. He had a lot of incomplete, at best, teams to work with. Hope he gets another chance with a solid team if he wants to coach still. Counsell is clearly a pretty substantial upgrade though.

Im not a big fan of hoyer. This offseason might prove me wrong on him but ive felt like hes been carried to success by theo and never actually done anything himself. The farm system is great but I need to see him make some impact moves via trade/FA to supplement that as well.

 

[knoxville7]

Cubs had a 3.85 bullpen ERA
Arizona had a 4.22 bullpen ERA
Miami had a 4.37 bullpen ERA

But if you choose to pretend the Cubs’ pen was too terrible to make the playoffs, go ahead. All evidence to the contrary.

Gee, who made the decisions to pitch which bullpen arms when?!? Hmmmm?

 

[knoxville7]

I don’t think Hoyer was trying to win a title last year, the window to win is obviously the next 3-4 years.

I’m going to stay pretty resolute on the fact that the Cubs had more talent than the Diamondbacks or Marlins and lost to both of those teams head to head and ultimately in the standings because of some head scratching decisions by Ross.

Is Ross the worst manager ever? No, but he is bottom 10 probably. Or was. Hoyer upgraded a bottom 10 manager to the best.

So you’re saying there’s no way the cubs don’t make the playoffs next year then, right?! I mean, Ross had us a game away from the playoffs so going from him being bottom 10 to counsell being the best should lock that up, right?!

Like you’ll totes be calling for counsell to be fired if we miss the playoffs, yeah??

 

[JustinSteeleCyYoung]

Gee, who made the decisions to pitch which bullpen arms when?!? Hmmmm?

Ummm… I seem to recall Ross deciding pitching Marcus Stroman, a guy with no relief experience, and also despite the fact he wasn’t pitching well and also injured.

So you’re saying there’s no way the cubs don’t make the playoffs next year then, right?! I mean, Ross had us a game away from the playoffs so going from him being bottom 10 to counsell being the best should lock that up, right?!

Like you’ll totes be calling for counsell to be fired if we miss the playoffs, yeah??

Pretty silly hypothetical. Did Bellinger come back?

Do you really think the Cubs don’t make the playoffs last year if Counsell manages the team instead of Ross? If you do, you’re more feeble minded than I thought.

 

[knoxville7]

Ummm… I seem to recall Ross deciding pitching Marcus Stroman, a guy with no relief experience, and also despite the fact he wasn’t pitching well and also injured.

Pretty silly hypothetical. Did Bellinger come back?

Do you really think the Cubs don’t make the playoffs last year if Counsell manages the team instead of Ross? If you do, you’re more feeble minded than I thought.

Cherry pick 1 thing to complain about despite just providing statistical proof that Ross pulled the right strings more times than not with the bullpen. You really are brane dead!