Derrick Rose: Youngest MVP Ever!

[houheffna]

That's what I'm saying. I don't see how he doesn't see that.

What I don't see is how that keeps him from being the best player in the league right now. I think its irrelevant...

 

[Glide2keva]

When did I compare Lebron's work ethic to anybody? I said his game has improved...there is no doubt about that...

How has his game improved?

What has he added a few steps on that fade-away three he loves to hoist up?

 

[Glide2keva]

What I don't see is how that keeps him from being the best player in the league right now. I think its irrelevant...

Well, it doesn't revolve around what you think.

He's going to get passed up in the best player in the league category, and I would dare say that guy plays for the Bulls.

 

[houheffna]

Well, it doesn't revolve around what you think.

He's going to get passed up in the best player in the league category, and I would dare say that guy plays for the Bulls.

Maybe so...I don't have a crystal ball...what is, is. Lebron is the best player in the league...I have said that in the past about Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan and Olajuwon over the past 20 years. Lebron is that guy and has been for a couple of years now. If Rose becomes that guy, that would be great, though I don't remember a guy Rose's size ever really having that designation. It would be a first, but I definitely hope he does become the best in the league.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

When did I compare Lebron's work ethic to anybody? I said his game has improved...there is no doubt about that...

Every player naturally improves from their rookie year. He was a stud at age 18 but never adapted a shooting stroke that would be effective in the NBA. He never developed any post up game to speak of. He should be embarrassed that he's 6'8'' 265 lbs and hardly utilizes that area of the game of basketball. And he doesn't have much of a post move to speak of anyway.

Guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Rose are known around the league for putting in extra dedication to improving their craft. Jordan used his critics as fire to become one of the best defenders and passers the NBA has ever seen. Bryant has fought hard to improve too, and puts in hours and hours practicing his jump shot. It has paid off as well. The guy makes some RIDICULOUS shots in the game. It hardly even matters if he can't see the rim. The ball always has a decent chance of going in when Kobe Bryant is shooting. As for Derrick Rose, he asks questions to former great players and is constantly seeking to become a better player. He knows there is a right time and a wrong time to be selfish on the basketball floor. James doesn't seem to grasp that concept.

Bets player in the NBA overall or not, I'd rather have Derrick Rose or Kevin Durant than LeBron James simply because they also have extraordinary high ceilings as athletes AND they are true team players. LeBron James is no more of a team player than a guy like Stephon Marbury on the floor.

 

[Glide2keva]

Maybe so...I don't have a crystal ball...what is, is. Lebron is the best player in the league...I have said that in the past about Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan and Olajuwon over the past 20 years. Lebron is that guy and has been for a couple of years now. If Rose becomes that guy, that would be great, though I don't remember a guy Rose's size ever really having that designation. It would be a first, but I definitely hope he does become the best in the league.

That's something we can agree on.

 

[Glide2keva]

Guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Rose are known around the league for putting in extra dedication to improving their craft. Jordan used his critics as fire to become one of the best defenders and passers the NBA has ever seen. Bryant has fought hard to improve too, and puts in hours and hours practicing his jump shot. It has paid off as well. The guy makes some RIDICULOUS shots in the game. It hardly even matters if he can't see the rim. The ball always has a decent chance of going in when Kobe Bryant is shooting. As for Derrick Rose, he asks questions to former great players and is constantly seeking to become a better player. He knows there is a right time and a wrong time to be selfish on the basketball floor. James doesn't seem to grasp that concept.

Funny you mentioned that, here's a tribune article about Rose speaking of just this very subject.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,5838271.story

Don't let Derrick Rose fool you.

Don't let his occasional lapses back into aw-shucks mode obscure what he calmly—presciently?—said way back on Sept. 27 during Bulls' Media Day festivities.

"Why can't I be the MVP of the league," Rose famously said then.

Now, he laughs off endorsements for the award from even Michael Jordan and steers such talk back to what he's all about—winning. And that's why the humble approach to MVP is all an act. Rose wants to win the award—and badly. He has said as much to confidantes. Of course, his reasons for desiring so are selfless, not selfish. Rose wants to be the MVP because he knows that means he's playing at his highest level, giving his Bulls the best chance to win what he really wants, an NBA championship.

This is why Rose has done bolder, more confident things like announce during a casual conversation at summer-league play in Las Vegas last summer that he had improved his 3-point shot. Which he has, from 26.7 percent last season to 34 percent this season.

It's why he took his work ethic to an even higher level last offseason, entering the Berto Center one day after the World Championships in Turkey ended, jet-lagged and bleary-eyed for a two-hour workout.

It's why, in an interview with the Tribune, he shed even more light on what drives him and why he made his MVP claim on the eve of this season.

"It's the joy of proving people wrong, especially when people don't expect you or your team to win," Rose said. "I always look at myself as an underdog. People always ask why I wear No. 1. It took me a long time to get where I am right now. I think back to high school. O.J. (Mayo) was No. 1 in our class. I wanted to get there.

"In college, people said to me, 'Why you going to Memphis? They're not going to do anything.' That just added stuff to the fire. And then, even when I went No. 1 in the draft, I wasn't even in the discussion for Rookie of the Year. You look at all the other people who went No. 1, they were automatically the people to be considered Rookie of the Year candidates. And I wasn't. All that stuff added on to the fire and I still remember the people who said it.

"I like proving people wrong. And that's why I said what I said (about MVP)."

Hmmm. "Stuff to the fire." Does that sound familiar?

Nobody compares to Jordan and nobody ever will. But Rose is beginning to develop a similarly encyclopedic recall of sleights—perceived or otherwise—and missteps to fuel his already prodigious motivational levels.

On Feb. 1, Rose admonished himself for missing the game-tying free throw in the Dec. 18 home loss to the Clippers. He then dropped 32 points and 11 assists in Los Angeles the next day to kick off a 3-2 trip in positive fashion with a victory.

Last Sunday, he spat out details of the Bulls' near-historic, 35-point collapse to the Kings from December 2009 because Sacramento was visiting for the first time since. Rose had 18 and eight in just 28 minutes of a 40-point blowout.

Late Tuesday night in Atlanta, Rose spoke with disgust about blowing a 17-point, second-half lead against the Hawks, even though the Bulls had blown them out once at home since. The way Rose played, posting 30 points and 10 assists with a career-high six 3-pointers in just three quarters, the loss stayed with him more than the victory.

Rose also acted defiantly throughout a recent stretch in which he missed 19 straight 3-pointers. Since snapping that string on March 7, Rose is 24-for-55 for 43.6 percent from beyond the arc.

"I told you I'm not going to stop shooting, no matter what," Rose said. "The game tells me to shoot so I'm putting the shot up."

Spoken like a true MVP.

:woot:

 

[houheffna]

Every player naturally improves from their rookie year. He was a stud at age 18 but never adapted a shooting stroke that would be effective in the NBA. He never developed any post up game to speak of. He should be embarrassed that he's 6'8'' 265 lbs and hardly utilizes that area of the game of basketball. And he doesn't have much of a post move to speak of anyway.

Guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Rose are known around the league for putting in extra dedication to improving their craft. Jordan used his critics as fire to become one of the best defenders and passers the NBA has ever seen. Bryant has fought hard to improve too, and puts in hours and hours practicing his jump shot. It has paid off as well. The guy makes some RIDICULOUS shots in the game. It hardly even matters if he can't see the rim. The ball always has a decent chance of going in when Kobe Bryant is shooting. As for Derrick Rose, he asks questions to former great players and is constantly seeking to become a better player. He knows there is a right time and a wrong time to be selfish on the basketball floor. James doesn't seem to grasp that concept.

Bets player in the NBA overall or not, I'd rather have Derrick Rose or Kevin Durant than LeBron James simply because they also have extraordinary high ceilings as athletes AND they are true team players. LeBron James is no more of a team player than a guy like Stephon Marbury on the floor.

Jordan and Kobe weren't/aren't selfish? And when did Lebron not become a team player on the court? Off the court, I would agree, but people compare him to Magic Johnson on the court...you don't get those comparisons from Lebron being selfish...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Jordan and Kobe weren't/aren't selfish? And when did Lebron not become a team player on the court? Off the court, I would agree, but people compare him to Magic Johnson on the court...you don't get those comparisons from Lebron being selfish...

That has nothing to do with what I just said, and you are again over-simplifying what I say.

I even specifically said that sometimes you need to be a selfish player. You just need to know when and when not to be. That is how you become a good team player- knowing the difference.

 

[houheffna]

That has nothing to do with what I just said, and you are again over-simplifying what I say.

I even specifically said that sometimes you need to be a selfish player. You just need to know when and when not to be. That is how you become a good team player- knowing the difference.

I have never heard a complaint about Lebron not being a good team player on the court until this losing streak happened. Lebron has always been a good team player, how do you think the Cavs won all of those games? He was just criticized this season for passing the ball in the clutch...though it was the right, and unselfish thing to do...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I have never heard a complaint about Lebron not being a good team player on the court until this losing streak happened. Lebron has always been a good team player, how do you think the Cavs won all of those games? He was just criticized this season for passing the ball in the clutch...though it was the right, and unselfish thing to do...

I've heard plenty of complaints LeBron James being TOO selfless down the stretch of games. And, in my opinion, that hurts him as being a great team leader-type of player.

However, maybe that is okay for James to be in that type of role if he is going to let Wade be the bread and butter when it comes to scoring (AKA- letting Wade be his 2006 1st option self at SG).

But that is the main thing that I do not like about LeBron James. He has the opportunity to be the best scorer in the game whenever he is on the floor, yet he settles for being the PG.

But what really makes me believe that James is not as good of a team player as Jordan, Bryant, or Rose is that often time he will try to completely take over the game and ignore his teammates. And that has continued this year as a member of the Miami Heat.

It confuses me. And I don't like the style James plays in regard to winning basketball. He needs to decide whether he wants to be Magic or whether he wants to be Jordan.

You can agree or disagree with me. It's all up to you.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I have never heard a complaint about Lebron not being a good team player on the court until this losing streak happened. Lebron has always been a good team player, how do you think the Cavs won all of those games? He was just criticized this season for passing the ball in the clutch...though it was the right, and unselfish thing to do...

To address this last point... I also remember how he lost to the Magic in '09 and Celtics in '10. I don't just remember the regular season, in which the Cavs' had the best record.

I'm not saying James is a terrible team player. I'm just saying that he is not as good of one as Kobe, MJ, or Rose. And that I don't like his style that much for a title contending team.

Maybe he will win a ring anyway.

 

[houheffna]

I've heard plenty of complaints LeBron James being TOO selfless down the stretch of games. And, in my opinion, that hurts him as being a great team leader-type of player.

However, maybe that is okay for James to be in that type of role if he is going to let Wade be the bread and butter when it comes to scoring (AKA- letting Wade be his 2006 1st option self at SG).

But that is the main thing that I do not like about LeBron James. He has the opportunity to be the best scorer in the game whenever he is on the floor, yet he settles for being the PG.

But what really makes me believe that James is not as good of a team player as Jordan, Bryant, or Rose is that often time he will try to completely take over the game and ignore his teammates. And that has continued this year as a member of the Miami Heat.

It confuses me. And I don't like the style James plays in regard to winning basketball. He needs to decide whether he wants to be Magic or whether he wants to be Jordan.

You can agree or disagree with me. It's all up to you.

This is really silly. Jordan was a more selfish player than Lebron BY FAR!!! Not only the games but the stats bear that out. You are not confused, this is some b.s. you are making up...you are confusing yourself. Lebron is averaging more assists per game than Jordan, Bryant and Rose over his career. You have to be kidding me with this nonsense.

 

[Glide2keva]

This is the point

This is your head: whoosh!!!!!!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

This is really silly. Jordan was a more selfish player than Lebron BY FAR!!! Not only the games but the stats bear that out. You are not confused, this is some b.s. you are making up...you are confusing yourself. Lebron is averaging more assists per game than Jordan, Bryant and Rose over his career. You have to be kidding me with this nonsense.

Again, you are ignoring my points.

Every. single. one of them. It's like you see a few words and respond soley to that.

James imo should not be playing PG and I partially fault him for that.

 

[houheffna]

This is the point

This is your head: whoosh!!!!!!

Right...and Rondo is a scrub...and Lebron is overrated....and you have been watching NBA for 25 years....give me a break....

 

[houheffna]

Again, you are ignoring my points.

Every. single. one of them. It's like you see a few words and respond soley to that.

James imo should not be playing PG and I partially fault him for that.

What should James be doing? He is a point forward...always have been. Who should run the point? Chalmers? And what would the best player be doing while Chalmers is running point? I can't respond because its a really dumb argument...it makes no damn sense.

Lebron running the point is not why the Heat were losing games....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You say some ridiculous shit, Houf... I mean... really. I can't even point all of them if I tried.

Dallas > Miami in 2006? Did you ever consider the SG and C positions? Even the PG position was arguably much better for Miami.

And because LeBron averages more assists than those guys dismisses everything I said about him? How the **** is that even have anything to do with what I said?

Ridiculous.

 

[houheffna]

You say some ridiculous shit, Houf... I mean... really. I can't even point all of them if I tried.

Dallas > Miami in 2006? Did you ever consider the SG and C positions? Even the PG position was arguably much better for Miami.

And because LeBron averages more assists than those guys dismisses everything I said about him? How the **** is that even have anything to do with what I said?

Ridiculous.

Your whole damn premise is ridiculous...that Dallas team was better than Miami. I am talking about the whole damn team, not just two positions. And why are you bringing this up in this thread?

Lebron averaging more assists than those guys means that your "Lebron is more selfish than Kobe, Jordan and Rose" argument is awfully stupid. You yourself called the man the best player in the league...after agreeing that he wasn't...but yeah, he is....OK!!!

I asked you what is Lebron supposed to be doing on that Heat squad? If he is not point forward, what should he be? And what sense does it make to have the best player in the league, let alone on the team change roles from what he is comfortable with?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Your whole damn premise is ridiculous...that Dallas team was better than Miami. I am talking about the whole damn team, not just two positions. And why are you bringing this up in this thread?

Lebron averaging more assists than those guys means that your "Lebron is more selfish than Kobe, Jordan and Rose" argument is awfully stupid. You yourself called the man the best player in the league...after agreeing that he wasn't...but yeah, he is....OK!!!

I asked you what is Lebron supposed to be doing on that Heat squad? If he is not point forward, what should he be? And what sense does it make to have the best player in the league, let alone on the team change roles from what he is comfortable with?

You completely misinterpreted what Glide said. Glide didn't even say LeBron wasn't the best player. He did say he wasn't necessarily the best player.

And I said the EXACT OPOOSITE of what you just said. I said James was TOO UNSELFLISH.

PS - Who won that series back in '06? 4-2. I forgot.