Derrick Rose: Youngest MVP Ever!

Glide2keva

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You completely misinterpreted what Glide said. Glide didn't even say LeBron wasn't the best player. He did say he wasn't necessarily the best player.

And I said the EXACT OPOOSITE of what you just said. I said James was TOO UNSELFLISH.

PS - Who won that series back in '06? 4-2. I forgot.
And I meant it in terms of actual basketball skills. lebron is not the best player on his team, Wade is.

That's my opinion and I couldn't give a shit less if someone thinks it's stupid or not. Wade has won it all on the biggest stage whereas lebron couldn't even win one single game and still has yet to do so.
 

houheffna

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You completely misinterpreted what Glide said. Glide didn't even say LeBron wasn't the best player. He did say he wasn't necessarily the best player.

And I said the EXACT OPOOSITE of what you just said. I said James was TOO UNSELFLISH.

PS - Who won that series back in '06? 4-2. I forgot.

"And this whole "lebron is better than anyone else" is a joke to me."

What does that mean?

So you think James is too unselfish? Based on what? Lebron shoots 20 shots a game...you want him shooting more?
 

Glide2keva

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"And this whole "lebron is better than anyone else" is a joke to me."

What does that mean?

So you think James is too unselfish? Based on what? Lebron shoots 20 shots a game...you want him shooting more?
He said he was too unselfish in the closing moments of the game. That's the point he was making and spelled out quite clearly.

He was also saying that Kobe, Jordan, Rose know when to be selfish and when to be unselfish.

lebron is too dumb to figure it out (that's what I'm saying)
 

houheffna

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And I meant it in terms of actual basketball skills. lebron is not the best player on his team, Wade is.

That's my opinion and I couldn't give a shit less if someone thinks it's stupid or not. Wade has won it all on the biggest stage whereas lebron couldn't even win one single game and still has yet to do so.

So Lebron is the best player in the league? Just not the most skilled, is that what you are saying?
 

Glide2keva

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So Lebron is the best player in the league? Just not the most skilled, is that what you are saying?
I'm saying he's the most physically gifted player in the league, but not necessarily the best or most skilled.

He's coasting on his athleticism and nothing else. He's 25 so he has time to figure it out, but when his body starts breaking down, he better had developed a post game and a decent jumpshot because he's going to need it.
 

houheffna

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I'm saying he's the most physically gifted player in the league, but not necessarily the best or most skilled.

He's coasting on his athleticism and nothing else. He's 25 so he has time to figure it out, but when his body starts breaking down, he better had developed a post game and a decent jumpshot because he's going to need it.

There is nothing wrong with Lebron's jumpshot. His jumpshot is more accurate than Rose or Wade's.
 

Glide2keva

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There is nothing wrong with Lebron's jumpshot. His jumpshot is more accurate than Rose or Wade's.
Okay, I'll take your word for since you're leading his parade. I see it as streaky, but what do I know?

His post game is terrible and for a guy of his size he should be dominating other SF's in the post, but his post game is completely awkward at best.
 

houheffna

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Okay, I'll take your word for since you're leading his parade. I see it as streaky, but what do I know?

His post game is terrible and for a guy of his size he should be dominating other SF's in the post, but his post game is completely awkward at best.

Whether watching or statistically speaking, nothing wrong with James' jumpshot. The only argument is that he tends to lean on it too much. But he has a good jumpshot, which is what makes him impossible to guard....
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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"And this whole "lebron is better than anyone else" is a joke to me."

What does that mean?

So you think James is too unselfish? Based on what? Lebron shoots 20 shots a game...you want him shooting more?

LeBron James is a very flawed player.

Despite being so well-rounded offensively, he is used as a PG in the offense.

He could be used to fill in the gaps offensively.

But the problem is that he wants to consistently play from mid-range and has a shaky shooting stroke.

LeBron James is more guardable than Bryant, Wade, and Jordan.

And it is because he doesn't choose to play out of his comfort zone.

He hasn't developed a refined post-up game because of this.

He hasn't perfected his jump shot because of this and doesn't really have any real move or sweet spots on the floor.

LeBron James is the best perimeter finisher around the rim in the NBA.

Yet, he is used as a PG and isn't able to utilize that aspect of his game nearly as much as he should be able to.

When he takes over games, I simply don't like the way he does it. He isolates and generally gets fouled.

But against defenders like Paul Pierce or Ron Artest, he doesn't get fouled nearly that often.

I think there is a big reason that LeBron James could not get past the Boston Celtics and Orlando Magic the past two years, and it isn't just because his teammates weren't good enough.

It's because defenses know how to marginalize James.

It's not completely his fault in the sense that he has had some TERRIBLE offensive coaching.

But his play is flawed.

It's undeniable.

Watching LeBron play against a good defense is like watching the Detroit Pistons dictate exactly what Jordan did.

Instead of the Jordan Rules, you might as well call it the LeBron Rules.

Opposing defenses are able to make LeBron throw the ball wherever they want because they know his tendencies as a player.

He is not nearly as well-versed of a playmaker and scorer as guys like Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Michael Jordan.

He needs a decent coach other than Erik Spoelstra or Mike Brown who can actually draw something up and throw defenses off.

The way it has ALWAYS been for LeBron's entire career is... OK. I have the ball at the top of the key.

Wait. Mo has room.

Three.

Wait they are guarding me one on one.

Pull up jump shot or drive to the rim (mainly directly into double-teams).

Jordan played under a refined offense after Phil Jackson and Tex Winter took over.

There were TWO other options every time a player had the ball in that offensive system.

AKA- a triangle offense. A much more complicated system that takes a while to learn. But the Bulls did. And the Lakers did.

Phil Jackson teams have won 11 titles in the past 20 years largely because of that refined offensive system.

The point is that LeBron James has no halfcourt system.

Spo and Brown are noted for being defensive-minded guys who let their players have free reign on offense.

The good thing about Spo is that he, unlike Brown, allows James to run off of long rebounds and turnovers.

Brown did NOT like fast-tempo... I don't know why. He just did.

Anyway, the point is that the coach lets LeBron James do whatever the hell he wants too often offensively.

The main point:

LeBron James can be marginalized easily.

There is no player in NBA history who has his hands on the ball as much as LeBron James does.

And he isn't a very good decision-maker compared to almost ANY other PG in the NBA.

Granted- he is an excellent decision maker compared to most players in the NBA.

And has some great passing skills (his only great offensive skill worth speaking highly of).

But most players in the NBA aren't point guards.

He was designed to be a wing scorer.

And an inside-outside threat- much like Jordan, Durant, and Carmelo Anthony.

Maybe even better.

But he isn't that player.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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There is nothing wrong with Lebron's jumpshot. His jumpshot is more accurate than Rose or Wade's.

Nobody in the NBA misses more mid-range jump-shots than LeBron James. He is a very streaky shooter, just like Glide said. He is about as accurate from 15 feet wide open as he is from 25 feet wide open.

Rose, Bryant, Jordan, Wade... Anthony, Paul, Deron, Durant... all of those guys have signiture moves and sweet spots.

LeBron James has realized that he is such a better athlete than anybody in the league that he can get away with having EXTREMELY limited dribbling and shooting skills and post up moves.

Why?

Because he is so big, strong, and fast that he can get through 48 out of every 50 players guarding him with ease.

I can't wait until James hits 30 and loses a step.

And that will expose his limited skills.
 

houheffna

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Nobody in the NBA misses more mid-range jump-shots than LeBron James. He is a very streaky shooter, just like Glide said. He is about as accurate from 15 feet wide open as he is from 25 feet wide open.

Rose, Bryant, Jordan, Wade... Anthony, Paul, Deron, Durant... all of those guys have signiture moves and sweet spots.

LeBron James has realized that he is such a better athlete than anybody in the league that he can get away with having EXTREMELY limited dribbling and shooting skills and post up moves.

Why?

Because he is so big, strong, and fast that he can get through 48 out of every 50 players guarding him with ease.

I can't wait until James hits 30 and loses a step.

And that will expose his limited skills.

I don't give a damn about when he turns 30, he is unstoppable now! Who gives a damn about signature moves and sweet spots? That is nonsense. He is the best in the game because he is better than everybody you named...point blank. He is limited in the post, he is not a limited ballhandler. He is not a limited shooter. He is a better shooter than Rose or Wade, so I don't know where you got that crap from, its based on fiction...
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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I don't give a damn about when he turns 30, he is unstoppable now! Who gives a damn about signature moves and sweet spots? That is nonsense. He is the best in the game because he is better than everybody you named...point blank. He is limited in the post, he is not a limited ballhandler. He is not a limited shooter. He is a better shooter than Rose or Wade, so I don't know where you got that crap from, its based on fiction...

Practice makes perfect. If you have limited skills, then you need more practice. It's as simple as that.

When you have Paul Pierce in your grill, let's see how your power, jump-ability, height, and speed make a difference when you are LeBron James.

Then we will see how unstoppable he is.

Bruce Bowen sure contained LeBron in the 2007 Finals.

James is no Magic Johnson... with his skillset, he could never DREAM of being that good. And Magic was a hole-filler who played every position on offense. LeBron simply can't.

Is this all false too:

LeBron James is a very flawed player.

Despite being so well-rounded offensively, he is used as a PG in the offense.

He could be used to fill in the gaps offensively.

But the problem is that he wants to consistently play from mid-range and has a shaky shooting stroke.

LeBron James is more guardable than Bryant, Wade, and Jordan.

And it is because he doesn't choose to play out of his comfort zone.

He hasn't developed a refined post-up game because of this.

He hasn't perfected his jump shot because of this and doesn't really have any real move or sweet spots on the floor.

LeBron James is the best perimeter finisher around the rim in the NBA.

Yet, he is used as a PG and isn't able to utilize that aspect of his game nearly as much as he should be able to.

When he takes over games, I simply don't like the way he does it. He isolates and generally gets fouled.

But against defenders like Paul Pierce or Ron Artest, he doesn't get fouled nearly that often.

I think there is a big reason that LeBron James could not get past the Boston Celtics and Orlando Magic the past two years, and it isn't just because his teammates weren't good enough.

It's because defenses know how to marginalize James.

It's not completely his fault in the sense that he has had some TERRIBLE offensive coaching.

But his play is flawed.

It's undeniable.

Watching LeBron play against a good defense is like watching the Detroit Pistons dictate exactly what Jordan did.

Instead of the Jordan Rules, you might as well call it the LeBron Rules.

Opposing defenses are able to make LeBron throw the ball wherever they want because they know his tendencies as a player.

He is not nearly as well-versed of a playmaker and scorer as guys like Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Michael Jordan.

He needs a decent coach other than Erik Spoelstra or Mike Brown who can actually draw something up and throw defenses off.

The way it has ALWAYS been for LeBron's entire career is... OK. I have the ball at the top of the key.

Wait. Mo has room.

Three.

Wait they are guarding me one on one.

Pull up jump shot or drive to the rim (mainly directly into double-teams).

Jordan played under a refined offense after Phil Jackson and Tex Winter took over.

There were TWO other options every time a player had the ball in that offensive system.

AKA- a triangle offense. A much more complicated system that takes a while to learn. But the Bulls did. And the Lakers did.

Phil Jackson teams have won 11 titles in the past 20 years largely because of that refined offensive system.

The point is that LeBron James has no halfcourt system.

Spo and Brown are noted for being defensive-minded guys who let their players have free reign on offense.

The good thing about Spo is that he, unlike Brown, allows James to run off of long rebounds and turnovers.

Brown did NOT like fast-tempo... I don't know why. He just did.

Anyway, the point is that the coach lets LeBron James do whatever the hell he wants too often offensively.

The main point:

LeBron James can be marginalized easily.

There is no player in NBA history who has his hands on the ball as much as LeBron James does.

And he isn't a very good decision-maker compared to almost ANY other PG in the NBA.

Granted- he is an excellent decision maker compared to most players in the NBA.

And has some great passing skills (his only great offensive skill worth speaking highly of).

But most players in the NBA aren't point guards.

He was designed to be a wing scorer.

And an inside-outside threat- much like Jordan, Durant, and Carmelo Anthony.

Maybe even better.

But he isn't that player.
 

Glide2keva

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hou is acting like a front-runner.

lebron is good at what he does, but he does need to work on his game.

How many times can he dribble, dribble, dribble, drive for the bailout foul before it gets old and predictable. Wait, it already is predictable. That's how the Bulls were able to beat the heat the last two games.
 

Glide2keva

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Practice makes perfect. If you have limited skills, then you need more practice. It's as simple as that.

When you have Paul Pierce in your grill, let's see how your power, jump-ability, height, and speed make a difference when you are LeBron James.

Then we will see how unstoppable he is.

Bruce Bowen sure contained LeBron in the 2007 Finals.

James is no Magic Johnson... with his skillset, he could never DREAM of being that good. And Magic was a hole-filler who played every position on offense. LeBron simply can't.

Is this all false too:
And you know this is all false because it's critical of lebron.
 

houheffna

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Practice makes perfect. If you have limited skills, then you need more practice. It's as simple as that.

When you have Paul Pierce in your grill, let's see how your power, jump-ability, height, and speed make a difference when you are LeBron James.

Then we will see how unstoppable he is.

Bruce Bowen sure contained LeBron in the 2007 Finals.

James is no Magic Johnson... with his skillset, he could never DREAM of being that good. And Magic was a hole-filler who played every position on offense. LeBron simply can't.

Is this all false too:

You have been utterly confusing and hypocritical the last few days. And I called you on it, so this is you trying to "pick another fight" to make up for it? Its all hypocrisy...plain and simple. You just stated he is the best player in the game. How is the best player in basketball "easily marginalized"? What sense does that make?

Most everything you say about Lebron is off because you don't have a clue about his game. I exposed that about you in the past. Notice you don't talk that "give and go" stuff anymore.

I never said Lebron was better than Magic, I said that is the way he is perceived a point forward, a big man with the skills to run the offense, which Lebron has.

He was designed to be a wing scorer by who? He runs the offense, he did it in high school, he is doing it now. You want him to evolve into what? A power forward? Right now he runs the offense as a small forward. NO team Lebron is on needs a point guard offensively, because THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE RUNS THE OFFENSE...ADEPTLY!!!

Again, what would you have Lebron do? Who is going to run that offense in Miami if he doesn't?
 

houheffna

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And you know this is all false because it's critical of lebron.

Just like when anything critical was said about Rose, you whined and then left the forum...for five minutes then came back because nobody cared you left. You should practice objectivity before you accuse anyone else of biased thinking...until then, you should be the last to criticize...
 

houheffna

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Most people assume that LeBron James is “King James” because he is a genetic freak with superhuman athleticism. Nobody credits his work ethic, except Cleveland’s Director of Player Development and his personal shooting coach Chris Jent:

“The amount of time he has put into being a better shooter is unreal,” Jent said. “You can’t imagine how hard he works at this. During the summer, it’s just us alone in the gym with no other bull.”

James calls when he wants unscheduled practice time on cold winter nights. And on hot July days, when James travels the country for commercials or appearances, Jent goes along to find suitable arenas for shooting. And James typically doesn’t stop until he makes 400 shots under Jent’s watch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LeBron James was again magnificent, finishing with 36 points, 13 rebounds and eight assists while scoring in every way imaginable.

The 24-year-old superstar said his work ethic has been "everything" in a breathtaking career that has surpassed unprecedented hype.

"You're only born with a certain amount of gifts," he said. "You have to take advantage of them, and put in the work. My work ethic has helped me be the player I am today."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kobe Bryant won his first most-valuable-player award last season, but will LeBron James prevent a repeat performance?

The Cleveland Cavaliers forward has the better statistics and a comparable team record at this point. He also has an important vote -- sort of.


Bryant seemed mildly uncomfortable when asked for his MVP choice near the season's halfway point.

"LeBron," he said. "Leave me alone about that stuff."

He then expanded upon his thoughts.

"I'm a big fan of his, obviously," he said. "I just think the world of him. Playing with him this summer [at the Beijing Olympics], and seeing his work ethic and what he's about, I just think he's terrific."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He's not caught up in his talent," Carr said. "LeBron understands that he has to work on his game to get to the level he wants to achieve. Every season he has been with us, he's worked on something and improved it the next year. That says to me the young man is a student of the game."

Now THIS goes over your heads. You make up chicken shit crap that you cannot back up at all just because you dislike Lebron James. Anytime you have to tear down Lebron's character to build up Rose, You are showing that your argument is very inadequate, and it cements the fact that Lebron is in front of Rose, not in his rear-view mirror at the present time.

Rami...get a spine. This whole act you have put on is pretty damn gutless. You have been all over the place. You are one of the hypocrites that called me out for my facts, yet another guy shows up with his "truths" as you called them, and you agreed, though they were way off base. Then when called on it, you said you agreed with him out of sarcasm...then later, you say Leborn is the best in the game with relative ease. Then you bring up Lebron's work ethic and lack thereof (one of those "truths") and start a debate with that, though I never compared Lebron's work ethic to anybody!!! Then you want to say Lebron isn't as good a point guard as other point guards...which is stupid...he does what does pgs do...and has 2 MVPs because of it!!! Give me a break...
 
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RamiTheBullsFan

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Houf, you are getting offended at criticism of LeBron James. Plain and simple.

If anything has ANYTHING critical to say about LeBron James, you go on a little name-calling spree.

LeBron James can do no wrong according to you.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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God-forbid you can actually point to one sentence I have just said as an example of where I was wrong and off. You don't. And the reason you don't is because you can't dismiss it.
 

houheffna

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God-forbid you can actually point to one sentence I have just said as an example of where I was wrong and off. You don't. And the reason you don't is because you can't dismiss it.

I JUST DISPROVED YOUR WHOLE DAMN ARGUMENT!!! ITS ALL BRAINLESS....

How do you respond to "Lebron has no halfcourt system"? That is just stupid!

I did dismiss it, and all I said is that your actions are spineless...which they are. You stand for everything, but really you stand for nothing. Its easily dismissed because it doesn't make sense. How can the best player in the game be easily marginalized? That makes no sense!!!! Either he is the best or he ain't. That is your debate...with yourself. If you were consistent it wouldn't be hard to rebut your statements. But you are fabricating arguments after I exposed the hypocrisy in your statements. That is all this is, a pointless argument aimed at redeeming yourself...and you only look like more of a hypocrite...
 

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