General trade discussion

[CSF77]

If I were to guess I'd say the Cubs would not throw a prospect into that trade. If the rumors are to be believed, and I'm of the opinion they are, Castro was offered to teh Mets in the offseason for Syndergaard and deGrom. The Mets balked. For the Cubs to now trade Castro and a prospect for Syndergaard doesn't seem like these guys' MO. I think if it works its way back to Castro it needs to be a larger deal. Maybe Castro and McKinney for Syndergaard and Rafeal Montero, a hard throwing rightie with some concerns. When this gets brought up people immediately start taking about how Tulowitzki is a better fit for NY than Castro but really is he? Often injured, 5 years older and has a big contract which Sandy Alderson is unlikely to pick up. I think these teams can come up with a deal but it may take a while and one or both of them could have seen their fortunes change by then. Still until that happens I think something is likely.

I think NY would rather want Baez. Baez for Matz would be a fair deal. Matz I think is ranked #8 of all LH SP prospects. He is in AAA and should be ready by Aug. That gives a few months of Wada while Matz is finishing up.

It would be cheaper than going after Hamels.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I think NY would rather want Baez. Baez for Matz would be a fair deal. Matz I think is ranked #8 of all LH SP prospects. He is in AAA and should be ready by Aug. That gives a few months of Wada while Matz is finishing up.

It would be cheaper than going after Hamels.

Yes, I would do that deal. The issue is that conventional wisdom says that the Mets want Matz, a local Long Island kid, more than they want Syndergaard. I think this silly 6 man rotation thing hints at them showcasing him too.

 

[CSF77]

Their rotation:
Harvey 5-5 2.91
Colon 7-3 4.82
DeGrom 5-4 2.71
Niese 3-5 4.08
Syndergaard 1-2 3.63

Gee (DL)
Wheeler (T.J.)

The effort is a part of New York's strategy to keep Harvey, Syndergaard and deGrom to strict innings limits. Neither Bartolo Colon, Jon Niese nor Gee have such limitations, since all have thrown more than 200 innings before in a season. As veterans, they are also clearly viewed in a different light as the younger trio of hard-throwing righties.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Their rotation:
Harvey 5-5 2.91
Colon 7-3 4.82
DeGrom 5-4 2.71
Niese 3-5 4.08
Syndergaard 1-2 3.63

Gee (DL)
Wheeler (T.J.)

The effort is a part of New York's strategy to keep Harvey, Syndergaard and deGrom to strict innings limits. Neither Bartolo Colon, Jon Niese nor Gee have such limitations, since all have thrown more than 200 innings before in a season. As veterans, they are also clearly viewed in a different light as the younger trio of hard-throwing righties.

I understand what they're saying publicly but other teams have done this before and usually someone goes. May or may not be the case this time.

 

[beckdawg]

Could you use Voggie in a package with the Yankees to get a guy like Delline Betances?

The Yankees DH and 1B have a combined age of 1000, and they love power.

What would need to be added?

I personally think that would be a bit light for Vogelbach. Betances isn't a starter and he's already 27. He's no doubt good out of the bullpen but the cubs will have guys coming up who should be good. For example, Edwards may end up in the pen. Also, I doubt the Yankees would deal like that considering they are in 1st place and are presently using him.

 

[beckdawg]

But Starlin Castro isn't a star either. Not production-wise, at least. He's essentially the same player he was in 2011 only a bit better defensively. Nice avg, low to decent OBP, and maybe 10-15 HRs a year, maybe average defense and a nice handful of Ks to go with it. Unlike Rizzo, Castro has never shown that there's a "next step" for him to take. He's already at his ceiling, IMO. To move Baez in favor of that makes little sense to me, at least in the context of a longer-term plan. Baez's hit/power/defense tools are just too good to lock down SS in favor of Castro, IMO.

I'd agree Castro isn't a star... well I'd say he's more fringe between a good player and star but that's sort of splitting hairs. Regardless, he's a known quantity. Until Baez hits at the major league level he's "potential." I'd also suggest it's possible that they move both and ultimately are looking at Torres in a few years. They could hold onto Castro for the next say 3 years while he's still considerably cheap and then make a determination if Torres continues playing well.

 

[WindyCity]

I personally think that would be a bit light for Vogelbach. Betances isn't a starter and he's already 27. He's no doubt good out of the bullpen but the cubs will have guys coming up who should be good. For example, Edwards may end up in the pen. Also, I doubt the Yankees would deal like that considering they are in 1st place and are presently using him.

Young, big and over powering would be nice to have in the bull pen.

Betances could be a long term answer as the closer.

I just want someone who will come in and confidently throw strikes, and who trusts his fastball.

 

[CSF77]

Young, big and over powering would be nice to have in the bull pen.

Betances could be a long term answer as the closer.

I just want someone who will come in and confidently throw strikes, and who trusts his fastball.

I see it as a waste of a trade chip. Vogelbach is a solid 2nd player in a bigger trade.

The main problem with the Cubs pen is Ramirez being injured and Maddon using Rosscup against RH batters.

I still believe they should pack Vogy and Baez together for Hamels. This puts Wada into the pen. His first time through the order his BAA is .208. He has a high SO ratio going so he would be a boost to the pen. I would toss Wood into the deal just to move contract out and free a roster spot.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

You have to wonder if continuing injuries to the Cardinals, Matt Adams is now likely out for the season, will change the Cubs FO's strategy in terms of trades. I don't really thing the Cards are vulnerable yet, and Adams wasn't a great bat in their line up, but the bench is weakened now with Mark Reynolds stepping in at 1st and the increase in K's from Reynolds will change that batting order dynamic some. Another injury to a pitcher or an everyday player suddenly puts the Division in play for the Cubs or possibly the Pirates. It's one thing to be a contender for 1 game WC playoff in a crowded field and another to have a shot at a Division crown. If a big deal is out there for the Cubs does this make them more likely to take it? I still don't think they'll make a deal that doesn't help in 2015 and beyond but does it change their thinking just a little bit?

 

[SilenceS]

We don't even know who is out there. Hamels has not been impressive to me this year. Cueto just had an MRI and it was clean but still. David Price isn't going anywhere. You have to realize the second wild card makes so many more teams go for it.

Oakland is one that will be out of it, but does Beane want to do another deal? Is Sonny Gray even on the block? I would Beane may want Russell back for Gray.

Also, I find it hard to believe the Cubs have made Russell untouchable. Maybe they would prefer to trade Baez and Volgy but they don't set the market. I don't see big blockbuster coming.

 

[Parade_Rain]

If there is no deal, Baez has to get the call and then be effective, right? Also, if there is no deal, where is Edwards with the relief pitching? This team will have to figure out a way to help some of the starters with better Pen.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

We don't even know who is out there. Hamels has not been impressive to me this year. Cueto just had an MRI and it was clean but still. David Price isn't going anywhere. You have to realize the second wild card makes so many more teams go for it.

Oakland is one that will be out of it, but does Beane want to do another deal? Is Sonny Gray even on the block? I would Beane may want Russell back for Gray.

Also, I find it hard to believe the Cubs have made Russell untouchable. Maybe they would prefer to trade Baez and Volgy but they don't set the market. I don't see big blockbuster coming.

I've been against trading for Hamels from the beginning so I don't think that's the answer. Anybody with a brain would want Sonny Gray, but who knows what that would take or if Beane would even trade him. I do think the Mets look like a logical trade partner because I think they will trade Syndergaard or Matz for a bat. Hard to get a firm read on that as by all accounts the Cubs and Mets have been talking for months. The latest whispers say they want Russell. They clearly don't want Castro but would they take Baez? Who knows? I still think any deal has to help beyond 2015 and hopefully beyond 2016 as well. This team is getting better, they played Washington tough and I think the Nationals are a better team. Kansas City is certainly a better team but they play them without the DH. It's all a learning process and maybe you don't make a big deal if it's just the wild card in play. If the division is in play I think that could change things. We'll all see I suppose.

 

[Boobaby1]

We don't even know who is out there. Hamels has not been impressive to me this year. Cueto just had an MRI and it was clean but still. David Price isn't going anywhere. You have to realize the second wild card makes so many more teams go for it.

Oakland is one that will be out of it, but does Beane want to do another deal? Is Sonny Gray even on the block? I would Beane may want Russell back for Gray.

Also, I find it hard to believe the Cubs have made Russell untouchable. Maybe they would prefer to trade Baez and Volgy but they don't set the market. I don't see big blockbuster coming.

Why would you deal the farm, when you can get Kazmir as they will be losing him anyways? And I will bet that the Cardinals will be in on Kazmir, or the same pitchers the Cubs would be looking at too since the Cardinals will get Wainright back next year, and the Cubs will be looking for an upgrade now, next off-season, or both, as will the Cardinals.

I am speculating that the Cubs are searching hard as we speak for upgrades to the team.

Also, for those talking about the Cardinals, Adams is not officially out for the season (3-4 months), and I wouldn't rule out them picking up a rental until he comes back because frankly, that's what they do and do it well.

Doubtful, but Ryan Howard might be considered to the birds if the Phillies ate enough of his contract. Should be interesting.

 

[dabears253313]

With Dan Vogelbach being blocked, it would be nice if the Cubs could find some takers, especially DH needy teams. Same thing with their pitchers, some of them will be blocked with Jon Lester, Jake Arrieta and Kyle Hendricks in the rotation. I don't see Jason Hammel and Tsouyoshi Wada as part of the future or guys they would allow to block the prospects.

CJ Edwards was promoted to AAA today, about time. If he was the next pitcher to be promoted and was promoted late 2015/early 2016, that might only leave one spot for guys like Pierce Johnson/Corey Black/Paul Blackburn/Duane Underwood and that's if Hammel is gone.

Albert Almora is another player that is blocked.

The Cubs should be able to get something good for Dan Vogelbach, Albert Almora and one of their pitchers. If Javier Baez doesn't come up this year then I'd like for the Cubs to trade some prospects for a left fielder or a third baseman if they want to move Kris Bryant to to left field. Maybe a top relief pitcher. A rental player.

 

[CSF77]

With Dan Vogelbach being blocked, it would be nice if the Cubs could find some takers, especially DH needy teams.

He is in AA. A 'needy team' would 'Need' him 'now' so I don't see the 'need'.

That is why his value is toss in to sweeten a trade.

Same thing with their pitchers, some of them will be blocked with Jon Lester, Jake Arrieta and Kyle Hendricks in the rotation.

Blocked? You act like it is a bad thing to have vets on a team. You need to reevaluate that opinion.

I don't see Jason Hammel and Tsouyoshi Wada as part of the future or guys they would allow to block the prospects.

Wada yes. Hammel? Are you nutz. He has been more dominate than Arrieta this year. By far the best performer on the rotation. So he has been a boon not a bane. Swear I think you are talking Jackson here.

Albert Almora is another player that is blocked.

How so? He is in AA and Fowler is on a 1 year deal. So did you have dinner with the Hoyers and get some inside info on a Fowler extension?

Last part is pointless. Swear already writing off Hammel just to plug a unproven ahem.... skinny and durability questionable player...or Johnson who has been injured more than healthy.... or Black who walks guys way too much.... or A+ pitchers who may never even make it....

And you are already jumping on the best starter in the rotation....

Wow...glad you are not GM. Would turn in my Cubs' fan card then.

 

[chibears55]

Edwards being promoted to AAA could mean they want to get him a few games in on that level to trade him..

If theo/hoyer want Hamels, then their going to need to make that move sooner rather then later to get him those starts as a cub if they plan on making a playoff push this year..

If their going to make a serious push for a playoff run, then in the next couple weeks they need to address their 3 biggest needs for this year.. a LFer, a late Reliever, and a starter..

Longer they wait, games are being lost by not improving their weak spots..

 

[chibears55]

Heard cubs are supposedly looking into ben Zobrist now..
He would be a good solution for now in LF, then possibly extend him for next year or 2 as a bench guy..


@mlbdailydish: #Cubs are making Ben Zobrist a top target as they prepare to be deadline buyers: http://sbnation.com/e/8454120?utm_c...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter pic.twitter.com/E6a1tKUn6y

 

[dabears253313]

He is in AA. A 'needy team' would 'Need' him 'now' so I don't see the 'need'.

That is why his value is toss in to sweeten a trade.



Blocked? You act like it is a bad thing to have vets on a team. You need to reevaluate that opinion.



Wada yes. Hammel? Are you nutz. He has been more dominate than Arrieta this year. By far the best performer on the rotation. So he has been a boon not a bane. Swear I think you are talking Jackson here.



How so? He is in AA and Fowler is on a 1 year deal. So did you have dinner with the Hoyers and get some inside info on a Fowler extension?

Last part is pointless. Swear already writing off Hammel just to plug a unproven ahem.... skinny and durability questionable player...or Johnson who has been injured more than healthy.... or Black who walks guys way too much.... or A+ pitchers who may never even make it....

And you are already jumping on the best starter in the rotation....

Wow...glad you are not GM. Would turn in my Cubs' fan card then.

Hammel has been really good for the Cubs, but prior to last season he was never that good. I personally liked the signing and thought it was solid and people on here thought I was crazy. I just think the Cubs would be quicker to move a 30+ Hammel before they would move a 30+ Lester who has been an all star or a below 30 Arrieta. If they feel a prospect is ready then I am sure Hammel would be gone before those two and probably before Kyle Hendricks.

On Fowler, I thought he was still an arbitration player? You're not a fan of Fowler, so that means his spot is up for grabs, but because you like Hammel that means the Cubs won't decide to bring up pitching prospects within the next year or two, even though that's what they've been doing the past few years for their roster?

You missed the parts when I said "if Hammel is gone" and when I said the pitching prospects would be out of luck for a spot. So yeah, I'm just writing off Hammel.

LOL yeah, I'm just "writing off" Hammel because I acknowledge he's pitching well but think the Cubs probably don't value him as much as guys like Lester and Arrieta. And you're talking like Hammel has been SO MUCH better than Lester and Arrieta. Arrieta has been good this year and Lester has probably been the best pitcher in the rotation for the past month.

What you don't realize is these are opinions, just like you only share your opinions. I'm not stating the trades as facts, although I did meet with the Hoyer's last week

 

[CSF77]

Hammel has been really good for the Cubs, but prior to last season he was never that good. I personally liked the signing and thought it was solid and people on here thought I was crazy. I just think the Cubs would be quicker to move a 30+ Hammel before they would move a 30+ Lester who has been an all star or a below 30 Arrieta. If they feel a prospect is ready then I am sure Hammel would be gone before those two and probably before Kyle Hendricks.

Lets start with the basics: prospects have to play themselves into a position to "compete" for roster spots. That is how you build a quality team via the farm. Trading vets just to open playing time just gives cost reductions. Not a winning product. If anything it adds losses by taking stable production and replacing it with unstable production.

On Fowler, I thought he was still an arbitration player? You're not a fan of Fowler, so that means his spot is up for grabs, but because you like Hammel that means the Cubs won't decide to bring up pitching prospects within the next year or two, even though that's what they've been doing the past few years for their roster?

Nothing to do with that. You said Almora is blocked. I replied that Fowler is in his last year of control and you must have had dinner with the Hoyers to hear that he is getting extended.

Nothing to do with if I like him or not. Just commenting about how you have this info that 'blocks' Almora.

LOL yeah, I'm just "writing off" Hammel because I acknowledge he's pitching well but think the Cubs probably don't value him as much as guys like Lester and Arrieta. And you're talking like Hammel has been SO MUCH better than Lester and Arrieta. Arrieta has been good this year and Lester has probably been the best pitcher in the rotation for the past month.

If you have been following the season. Hammel has been the only constant performer. Lester started like crap then got it together. Same with Hendricks. Now he is improving. Arrieta has been OK. Had a dominate game vs the Mets...but it is the Mets we are talking about. All said and done Hammell has gone out every game and given the team a shot to win the game. So ya that makes him the best performer this season. Never said he was the staff ace.

Sure on a given night Arrieta or Lester could just put up a shut out. But on a every day basis Hammell has been the man this year.

Bottom line:
Hammel: 2.98 ERA 0.91 WHIP
Arrieta 3.18 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Lester 3.30 ERA 1.31 WHIP
Hendricks: 3.76 ERA 1.14 WHIP

Sure the rest are improving but it has been Hammel that has been the rock of the staff. It is good to see the rest getting to where they need to be now.

 

[dabears253313]

Lets start with the basics: prospects have to play themselves into a position to "compete" for roster spots. That is how you build a quality team via the farm. Trading vets just to open playing time just gives cost reductions. Not a winning product. If anything it adds losses by taking stable production and replacing it with unstable production.



Nothing to do with that. You said Almora is blocked. I replied that Fowler is in his last year of control and you must have had dinner with the Hoyers to hear that he is getting extended.

Nothing to do with if I like him or not. Just commenting about how you have this info that 'blocks' Almora.



If you have been following the season. Hammel has been the only constant performer. Lester started like crap then got it together. Same with Hendricks. Now he is improving. Arrieta has been OK. Had a dominate game vs the Mets...but it is the Mets we are talking about. All said and done Hammell has gone out every game and given the team a shot to win the game. So ya that makes him the best performer this season. Never said he was the staff ace.

Sure on a given night Arrieta or Lester could just put up a shut out. But on a every day basis Hammell has been the man this year.

Bottom line:
Hammel: 2.98 ERA 0.91 WHIP
Arrieta 3.18 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Lester 3.30 ERA 1.31 WHIP
Hendricks: 3.76 ERA 1.14 WHIP

Sure the rest are improving but it has been Hammel that has been the rock of the staff. It is good to see the rest getting to where they need to be now.

Again, I didn't have dinner with the Hoyer's I only went bowling with them. We didn't get the chance to talk about contracts. I'll talk to them about contracts when I see them next week when we go shopping.