Have the last few weeks vindicated Pace?

[#FireEveryoneGeorge]

As far as Pace is concerned, I break it down to 2 categories.

1) Pro Personnel -He’s not very good in this area. Hicks, Trevathan & Mack are good. However, most of his other signings are bad, Quinn being the worst.

2) College / Drafting - His early drafts were not good, especially the first round picks. However, I think in the last month we’ve seen a lot of his recent draft picks and UDFA’s playing well.

With all that said, I think Nagy was a bad hire. If I’m firing either Pace or Nagy, it’s most definitely Nagy, for the following reasons:

1) His arrogance and stubbornness to try and fit his scheme to the players until the end of year 3 is damning.
2) His record against teams with winning records is bad.
3) Not being able to beat the Pack w/o Fangio is damning.
4) Nagy hasn’t really developed anyone on offense.
5) He scapegoated coaches (Heistand & Helfrich) as well as players (Trubisky) because he was hell-bent on running the Reid system instead of running what the players do well. I would argue that their best offensive outputs in 2018 and 2019 were the same schemes that have been working the last few weeks. Yet Nagy kept going back to HIS offense until his job was finally in jeopardy.

 

[Perspective]

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for dumping Howard?

He was right ....you were wrong

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for dumping Cameron Meredith?

He was right .... you were wrong

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for letting Bryce Callahan walk in FA?

He was right .....you were wrong

His first round draft picks ... Roquan and Floyd are both legit starters in this league and impactful pro bowl caliber players.....White got injured multiple times....no one can predict that.....Trubisky is still capable of being a starter in this league....all QBs need talent around them.....both Brady and Rodgers looked washed up last year with suspect surrounding talent ..... Trubs finally has a legit running game, solid OL and talent at WR/TE spot.....Mahomes would not be Mahomes without Kelce, Hill,Watson....just like Rivers was Rivers because he had Antonio Gates.....

 

[Rob219_CBMB]

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for dumping Howard?

He was right ....you were wrong

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for dumping Cameron Meredith?

He was right .... you were wrong

Do most of you remember when you were mad at Pace for letting Bryce Callahan walk in FA?

He was right .....you were wrong

His first round draft picks ... Roquan and Floyd are both legit starters in this league and impactful pro bowl caliber players.....White got injured multiple times....no one can predict that.....Trubisky is still capable of being a starter in this league....all QBs need talent around them.....both Brady and Rodgers looked washed up last year with suspect surrounding talent ..... Trubs finally has a legit running game, solid OL and talent at WR/TE spot.....Mahomes would not be Mahomes without Kelce, Hill,Watson....just like Rivers was Rivers because he had Antonio Gates.....

your name goes HARD.

 

[mattb78]

Nagy was the largest mistake. Arguably, the Bears would have been in the playoffs the last 3 straight years if they would have hired a better head coach.. and nobody would be calling for Pace's head.

I think many of the people that want to fire Pace just haven't been Bears fans long enough. They weren't around for the 5th round picks that nobody remembers (Bobby Wade, Bobby Gray, Claude Harriot, Kellen Davis.. just to name a few). They have no idea of just how low the rate of success goes once you get past the 2nd round.

Adrian Amos, Jordan Howard, Bilal Nichols, Darnell Mooney. They have no idea the types of gems these players are, and how many of the guys picked around them in the 5th round are out of the league.

There aren't many GMs in the league having any success that late in the draft. Nowhere near what Ryan Pace has.

The young fans just don't know what they have and how irreplaceable it is to have a GM that can find talent late. They don't understand that even it if takes him 2 or 3 draft picks at a QB, or 3 chances at a HC, he gives the Bears a better chance than most GMs because he finds talent where most GMs cannot and the cupboard will never become bare if you continually evaluate draft talent better than other organizations.

 

[mecha]

Nagy was the largest mistake. Arguably, the Bears would have been in the playoffs the last 3 straight years if they would have hired a better head coach.. and nobody would be calling for Pace's head.

I think many of the people that want to fire Pace just haven't been Bears fans long enough. They weren't around for the 5th round picks that nobody remembers (Bobby Wade, Bobby Gray, Claude Harriot, Kellen Davis.. just to name a few). They have no idea of just how low the rate of success goes once you get past the 2nd round.

Adrian Amos, Jordan Howard, Bilal Nichols, Darnell Mooney. They have no idea the types of gems these players are, and how many of the guys picked around them in the 5th round are out of the league.

There aren't many GMs in the league having any success that late in the draft. Nowhere near what Ryan Pace has.

The young fans just don't know what they have and how irreplaceable it is to have a GM that can find talent late. They don't understand that even it if takes him 2 or 3 draft picks at a QB, or 3 chances at a HC, he gives the Bears a better chance than most GMs because he finds talent where most GMs cannot and the cupboard will never become bare if you continually evaluate draft talent better than other organizations.

I think the team has playmakers on both sides. Pace did his job, just my opinion. he signed some bad FA deals, whiffed on the draft early, and traded away a lot of capital to acquire certain players. his mode of spitballing was pretty effective when you consider where the team was 6 years ago. the Chicago Bears can win with the team they have today. the head coach put them in places to not succeed with his round peg in square hole approach to scheme. even Pagano's defense will have flashes of brilliance, they're just not consistent on the coaching front. and as for the coaches they're also weak at development. Anthony Miller should be better. Trubisky should be better. they have physical talent, they're just not getting the most out of them. it's silly.

like I've been saying, they're major underachievers. all GMs make mistakes, even some of the best, I don't think the situation with the team is an indictment of Pace's performance. Matt Nagy was a flash hire for an offensive-minded guy, and he's from the Andy Reid tree, he's like another Kevin White, nobody could've anticipated that situation to become epic level shit.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Oldest most over paid defense is playing like poop

offense is barely bum slaying

pace vindicated

 

[circusboy666]

Does it void the Foles and Quinn contract? If not get him the f out of here.

 

[thenewguy]

Nagy was the largest mistake. Arguably, the Bears would have been in the playoffs the last 3 straight years if they would have hired a better head coach.. and nobody would be calling for Pace's head.

I think many of the people that want to fire Pace just haven't been Bears fans long enough. They weren't around for the 5th round picks that nobody remembers (Bobby Wade, Bobby Gray, Claude Harriot, Kellen Davis.. just to name a few). They have no idea of just how low the rate of success goes once you get past the 2nd round.

Adrian Amos, Jordan Howard, Bilal Nichols, Darnell Mooney. They have no idea the types of gems these players are, and how many of the guys picked around them in the 5th round are out of the league.

There aren't many GMs in the league having any success that late in the draft. Nowhere near what Ryan Pace has.

The young fans just don't know what they have and how irreplaceable it is to have a GM that can find talent late. They don't understand that even it if takes him 2 or 3 draft picks at a QB, or 3 chances at a HC, he gives the Bears a better chance than most GMs because he finds talent where most GMs cannot and the cupboard will never become bare if you continually evaluate draft talent better than other organizations.

Agree, this is why I'm saying if they fire Pace there is a good shot the next GM is worse. I thought the offensive talent was just bad, up until they switched to Lazor. It's clear as day that Nagy has no idea how to use personnel nor call plays. He wasn't putting anyone in a position to succeed and the offensive talent is better than we thought. Pace has areas he needs to improve, but I think he is learning and keeps getting better. He overthought the Trubisky draft pick and he missed on Nagy, but I would prefer to keep him at this point and move on from Nagy. If he gets the next coach right, he is setting this team up for consistent success. I still don't know what to do about QB, but he has to keep taking shots at it.

 

[BrunoTheRed]

As far as Pace is concerned, I break it down to 2 categories.

1) Pro Personnel -He’s not very good in this area. Hicks, Trevathan & Mack are good. However, most of his other signings are bad, Quinn being the worst.

2) College / Drafting - His early drafts were not good, especially the first round picks. However, I think in the last month we’ve seen a lot of his recent draft picks and UDFA’s playing well.

With all that said, I think Nagy was a bad hire. If I’m firing either Pace or Nagy, it’s most definitely Nagy, for the following reasons:

1) His arrogance and stubbornness to try and fit his scheme to the players until the end of year 3 is damning.
2) His record against teams with winning records is bad.
3) Not being able to beat the Pack w/o Fangio is damning.
4) Nagy hasn’t really developed anyone on offense.
5) He scapegoated coaches (Heistand & Helfrich) as well as players (Trubisky) because he was hell-bent on running the Reid system instead of running what the players do well. I would argue that their best offensive outputs in 2018 and 2019 were the same schemes that have been working the last few weeks. Yet Nagy kept going back to HIS offense until his job was finally in jeopardy.

Rethink that pro personnel piece.

Yes, there have been some high profile misses.

But he's done a good job filling in the team in other areas, and has historically.

Buster Skrine, Prince Amukamara, Mustipher as an undrafted free agent, and so on. Shit, even the Graham signing doesn't look so bad in retrospect.

It's not all seashells and balloons, for sure. But it's not as disastrous as some make it out to be.

 

[Chris Sojka]

This offense has not looked nearly as talentless once Lazor installed his offense. And while this has been accomplished against weaker opponents, that is exactly what you are supposed to do to weak opponents.. hang 30-40 points on them.

-The patchwork O-line is run blocking fairly nicely, with practice squad Mustipher and free agent Ifedi playing well. With 2 starters on injured reserve, this unit is run blocking well. Maybe it wasn't as horrible as everybody thought it was. Add a healthy Daniels next year and upgrade Leno and that could be a solid OL.

-Monty is 4th in the league in all purpose yards for a RB. That's excellent for a 3rd round pick. He has done a fantastic job the last few weeks after finally getting a little help with the playcalling and OL.

-WR group? A-Rob is a stud, we all know that. Mooney, right now he has the 7th highest receiving yards for a rookie, even though he was the 25th WR selected. Graham has more TDs this year than in the last 2 combined with Green Bay. All this while having to play half a season with Foles and 3/4 of a season with Nagy calling plays. Wow.

-Mitch. Sitting at 17th in the league in QBR at 95.3. Probably could have squeaked out at least one more win if Nagy wouldn't have put Foles and his stellar 80.8 QBR in.

Its too bad our defense is playing without our nose tackle and with our 3 pass rushers banged up. I think we would have a chance if those guys were healthy. Tons of respect for Mack and Hicks who have suited up clearly not at 100%. Give me this offense, and that early season defense that kept the Bucs and the Colts to less than 20 points, and I would give this team a shot to do some damage.

Pace hired Nagy expecting him to adjust.

Nagy is not a good fit. His offense is his problem and he won’t ditch it to save the team. Now that he’s literally been forced out of playcalling the team is playing quite well.

 

[Perspective]

IMO,the last few weeks might have vindicated Pace if.......
He didn't draft a guy with a broken leg with his first #1 pick here.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a QB that we saw again yesterday barely belongs in the league.
If he didn't throw a ridiculous deal at a kicker who continues to prove he sucks for the Browns and not only cost the team a first round buy.........he ended up costing the team the game he forced them to play too.
If he didn't ridiculously spend assets to move up so he could draft a QB who was slotted mid round at best while passing on two future greats. This decision has and will continue to hamper the team for years and years.
Mack's a difference maker(most of the time)but those missed 1st and 2nd round picks will leave a mark too. If you're gonna make a player the highest paid at his position,why not pick that player up on the FA market instead of paying the money AND parting with picks on top of it.
If he didn't throw another ridiculous deal at a QB who's mediocre at best and that's only when he's healthy.
If he didn't throw more stupid money at a pass rusher Dallas had no further use for. I dunno but every time I watch the Rams,I see Floyd make more plays in that game alone than this Quinn guy's made all year.
The last few opponents haven't exploited the O-line which Pace has all but ignored but good teams will.
And then we have the team's best receiver by a mile and a half about to go FA because Pace has waisted the necessary money to sign him or just doesn't want to.
He's also the visionary who hired the offensive genius who's seen his OC greatly outperform him at calling plays.
It'll take a trip to the conference finals to vindicate Pace IMO.........at least!

The deal for Glennon was not ridiculous.....it was structured such that he could be cut with minimal cap impact...just like Foles can be let go after next year with minimal impact.....Bears are always in good shape salary cap wise and they will be fine this off season too once they restructure a couple contracts and extend Fuller to reduce his cap impact next year ....

 

[Perspective]

Also for Quinn I am willing to give him one more year.....he is injured this year and still battling out there

 

[SD Bears Fan]

Also for Quinn I am willing to give him one more year.....he is injured this year and still battling out there

It's funny when guys fail to live up to their giant contracts and then have a mystery injury that doesn't prevent them from playing, but from playing well. It's fiction.

 

[Tillman33]

Pace has done some nice things as GM but his major swings and misses at the QB, HC and offensive line are why he will eventually get canned. He might survive this year, he won’t after his contract expires in 2021, unless the Bears win a playoff game (hint: they probably won’t)

It’s inexcusable to be 7 years into a tenure and still field nonstop questions about QB and head coach.

Pace would be an excellent GM for a team like the Texans or Chargers that already have the QB position solved.

But his inability to scout and evaluate QBs has set the team back a decade. Only a fool would let him swing and miss for a 3rd time.

Glennon
Trubisky
Foles

why should I expect Pace’s 7-14 years be different than years 1-7?

 

[Leomaz]

Absolutely not

 

[Chicago Staleys]

Miller is another guy just like Eddie Jackson. The talent is obviously there but the focus has dipped. Miller is an emotional player, when he's riding high he's on the moon but clearly he's spent a lot of this season in a terrible mental place. Talent-wise its obviously there but he's holding himself back.

I'm definitely not willing to write him off at all.

Miller is gonna want out of Chicago after the season.

 

[shoez90]

I've mentioned it before, but I always get called out for being a "homer".

Pace, compared to his peers, has done a good job in the draft and FA.

His main misses, and why he deserved to be fired before this recent streak, was because he missed on mitch and hired nagy.

Now that the team is playing better, he obviously stays.

The guy has been as good as any GM in the league from day 2 on. Sure, he's been terrible in the first round, but has he really? If floyd keeps up his good play that would be 2/4 hits. That goes with league average.

who's the other guy? yeah we liked him so much we traded him. must have hit on Shaheen, Howard and Amos too then.

 

[shoez90]

To me it just solidifies how horrible Pace is. Let’s review what the last few weeks have shown us.

1. Floyd should have been kept, instead we have ole led foot Quinn.
2. Kwiatkowski should have been kept instead we have old has been Danny.

Those 2 moves and all of a sudden an old defense is young and on the way up.

Now for the offense.

1. Sold low on Shaheen and then had to use a 2nd to replace him. Graham signing worked out this year.
2. Extended Cohen who is horrible.
3. ignored the oline. I will give him credit for finding mustipher, seems like lightning in a bottle so far.
4. Traded draft assets and locked in Foles to a multi year deal.

So because of these moves we can’t keep Robinson and Trubisky. I’d rather have both of these guys over anyone mentioned above, even the ones who were not signed.

This is just this year. I haven’t even touched on Floyd over tunsil, white over gurley, Trubisky over Watson/mahomes etc.

He is horrible and needs to be fired today.

MT over Mahomes now I know you are fukin high.

 

[Bust]

Pace has done some nice things as GM but his major swings and misses at the QB, HC and offensive line are why he will eventually get canned.

He hit on Mustipher which may have cemented the O line for the future once they get Daniels back. and uhhh since the scheme has changed some alongside the O line personnel adjustments, there have been zero threads about Leno. Him and Whitehair on the left side are making holes. all of Monty's chunk runs are coming off that side.

Lots talk about great Kyle Shanahan here but in 4 seasons with the 49ers, he's had 3 losing seasons. Broncos fans hate Fangio (this boards darling) and the Raiders hate Gruden. Why? cause they all losing.

Winning cures all.

 

[Perspective]

What Pace needs to do in this draft is get that alpha WR ..... we need a specimen like Julio Jones or AJ Green or Metcalf or Ceedee Lamb ..... we cannot beat good teams because players like Ramsey on the Rams or Jaire Alexander of the packers shuts down our passing game .... we need someone that teams are terrified of and we don’t have that .... on the Chiefs it’s Kelce for example ..... impossible to stop