How 'bout that Stoudemire?

houheffna

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I never said that Kobe was better than Lebron...I will say that Kobe is better than anybody else. You are making a totally different argument, and I still disagree on that. Duncan is not better nor is he more valuable! You say Kobe has lost a step....then you bring up Duncan? I don't think so....I don't know if you noticed but Duncan has lost more than a step. Durant is a nice player...I don't think he is ready to overtake Kobe yet. I want to see him actually play a playoff game before we can go there. Wade is simply not as good, close but not quite.

Yes, Kobe is arguably the best in the league, especially when fully healthy. No other player I would rather have in the clutch...and you question what I'M smoking???
 

Shakes

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How can you say you didn't say that Kobe is better than LeBron yet repeat that Kobe is arguably the best in the league? Is LeBron no longer in the league?
 

houheffna

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I have also said that in certain circumstances, namely the clutch, he is the best. The argument is there, I didn't say that I argue that point. I personally believe Lebron is better, many believe Kobe is better, you are the only one who believes Duncan is better. People in San Antonio know better than that. Duncan is not even top 10, let alone top 5. If you would take Duncan over Chris Paul...that is just senseless.

I would rather have kobe take the last shot ina game than anybody else in the league. I would ratehr have Kobe in a game 7 than Lebron or anyone else in the league, all things considered...that is where the argument comes in.
 

Shakes

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I didn't say I'd take Duncan over anyone, I just named 5 players off the top of my head who I think are playing better than Kobe this season. If you want to slot Chris Paul in and push Kobe even further down, be my guest. ;)

Put LeBron on the Lakers and there isn't going to be any game 7s for them to play in. If The Lakers had LeBron all year they'd currently be threatening to break the 72 win record.

Also it's a lot easier to hit clutch shots when the other team has to worry about guarding the other guys on the court. Kobe's clutch play didn't look so hot when he was on the 34 win Lakers team.
 

TheStig

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houheffna wrote:
The state of CO had some evidence if you don't remember you can see them. I certainly wasn't in charge of the prosecution. Funny how you just answer things and don't make up stuff, where did you get the numbers if you didn't make them up.

Kobe wasn't nearly as well regarded till he got two quality big men. Are you telling me that Gasol, Bynum and Odom are not the best front court in the league?

The evidence was not strong enough. The case was thrown out. "Some" evidence? Give me a break, that is not the way the justice system works...if you don't like Kobe, that is your problem, but to resort to that stuff is over the top, stick to the basketball court....

Are you telling me that Kobe was not top 5 in the league before those guys came along? How old are you? 6? You must have been watching another sport, you like stats so much, go pull out a stat book and do some research, what you are saying is just stupid...you denigrate the second greatest shooting guard in NBA history because YOU think he is a rapist. You gotta be kiddin' me....


Clearly justice is absolute. A finite science. Couldn't have been that Kobe payed her off. And no guilty person has gotten away or vice versa. Must be nice to live in such a black and white world.

I am saying while Kobe had top 5 numbers, he clearly isn't the leader or all time great his numbers make him out. He has always had top 5 skill... just not top 5 leadership. He doesn't make others better, he is concerned with Kobe first and foremost. And its much more than a scorers mentality. Funny that any discussion with you needs to become you don't know what your talking about or sarcasm or your 6. Screams desperation if your point can't stand on its own merits that you need to rely on sensationalist tactics.
 

TheStig

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kobe is the best in the clutch in volume, not percentage. He takes a vast majority of shots but doesn't make them at an above average rate. People forget the misses and remember the makes.
 

houheffna

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I would still take Kobe over Lebron in a game 7...he is still the best clutch player in the league. Lebron is younger, stronger, faster, all that...but to say that Duncan is better than Kobe? You are seriously high...seriously high.


Kobe has been a top 5 player in the league for the past decade...and has yet to step down from that pedestal. He spent a great deal of the decade as the best player in the league...I don't see any steps he has lost, but its a testament to his greatness that he may have lost a step and is still one of the top 5 in the league...
 

WearShades

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Shakes wrote:
And you've got to be smoking something to say Kobe is possibly the best player in the league. He has a supporting cast of Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Artest and is 48-18. LeBron has a supporting cast of Shaq, Varejao, Z (now Jamison) and Williams and is 52-15. Kobe has way more talent on his team and a worse record.

The Cavs playing in the East make it significantly easier to win. Thus, the fact they're only off by four or so games seems pretty insignificant as a tool for figuring out if Lebron or Kobe is better.
 

houheffna

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The Cavs playing in the East make it significantly easier to win. Thus, the fact they're only off by four or so games seems pretty insignificant as a tool for figuring out if Lebron or Kobe is better.

Brother, these people know better...they KNOW better...at least Shakes do...the other one might be a little touched...
 

TheStig

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WearShades wrote:
Shakes wrote:
And you've got to be smoking something to say Kobe is possibly the best player in the league. He has a supporting cast of Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Artest and is 48-18. LeBron has a supporting cast of Shaq, Varejao, Z (now Jamison) and Williams and is 52-15. Kobe has way more talent on his team and a worse record.

The Cavs playing in the East make it significantly easier to win. Thus, the fact they're only off by four or so games seems pretty insignificant as a tool for figuring out if Lebron or Kobe is better.

2 of the 3 best teams are in the east and 2 of the 3 worst teams are in the west. I don't think there is a noticeable discrepancy between the two conferences.
 

Shakes

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I just find it funny that houheffna is all about the clutch play when it comes to Kobe, but in numerous Ben Gordon threads I can't recall him saying we should just ignore the rest of the game and take Ben Gordon over other guys with far inferior numbers just because Ben hit a few clutch shots. :laugh:

Really though Kobe has had a great situation with being on a big name team like the Lakers, where he's also had good team mates for all but a couple of years. You put Kobe on a backwater team with crappy team mates (say Garnett's Timberwolves teams) and I don't think he's anywhere near as highly regarded. Kobe is a superstar, no doubt about it, but I think he's always been a bit overrated due to the situation he's been in.
 

TheStig

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Shakes wrote:
I just find it funny that houheffna is all about the clutch play when it comes to Kobe, but in numerous Ben Gordon threads I can't recall him saying we should just ignore the rest of the game and take Ben Gordon over other guys with far inferior numbers just because Ben hit a few clutch shots. :laugh:

Really though Kobe has had a great situation with being on a big name team like the Lakers, where he's also had good team mates for all but a couple of years. You put Kobe on a backwater team with crappy team mates (say Garnett's Timberwolves teams) and I don't think he's anywhere near as highly regarded. Kobe is a superstar, no doubt about it, but I think he's always been a bit overrated due to the situation he's been in.

BG wasn't clutch, he just made the shots, kirk hinrich's feistyness set everything up.
 

houheffna

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I believe the Rockets and the Grizzlies are as good or even better than every team in the east outside of the top 4...no doubt they would make the playoffs in the east. They are 4 games out in the west...the west is deeper and has been for a decade now...
 

Shakes

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The Cavs are 21-6 vs the West, the Lakers are 27-11 vs the West. I don't see how you can say the Cavs only have a better record by being in the East.
 

houheffna

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I just find it funny that houheffna is all about the clutch play when it comes to Kobe, but in numerous Ben Gordon threads I can't recall him saying we should just ignore the rest of the game and take Ben Gordon over other guys with far inferior numbers just because Ben hit a few clutch shots.

Really though Kobe has had a great situation with being on a big name team like the Lakers, where he's also had good team mates for all but a couple of years. You put Kobe on a backwater team with crappy team mates (say Garnett's Timberwolves teams) and I don't think he's anywhere near as highly regarded. Kobe is a superstar, no doubt about it, but I think he's always been a bit overrated due to the situation he's been in.

I find if funny that you don't know greatness when you see it...a player comparable to the greatest player ever is playing here, now, right before our eyes and you ignore his greatness because of........Pau Gasol???

So you put Kobe on a bad team and he is not a top 5 player? WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU PEOPLE WATCHING????

Kobe had his best years when he had no supporting cast...he was the best player in the game, bar none! When Garnett had a weak supporting cast, he was a top 5 player at the time...people who know basketball should be able to seperate legitimate greatness in a player from the talent or lack thereof of his teammates. Kobe is no more overrated than Jordan, Lebron or any of the other great players. Your argument is groundless...would you say the same things about Magic Johnson? Larry Bird? I doubt it. They always had great players around them...what did Jordan do before his supporting cast got better?
 

TheStig

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houheffna wrote:
I just find it funny that houheffna is all about the clutch play when it comes to Kobe, but in numerous Ben Gordon threads I can't recall him saying we should just ignore the rest of the game and take Ben Gordon over other guys with far inferior numbers just because Ben hit a few clutch shots.

Really though Kobe has had a great situation with being on a big name team like the Lakers, where he's also had good team mates for all but a couple of years. You put Kobe on a backwater team with crappy team mates (say Garnett's Timberwolves teams) and I don't think he's anywhere near as highly regarded. Kobe is a superstar, no doubt about it, but I think he's always been a bit overrated due to the situation he's been in.

I find if funny that you don't know greatness when you see it...a player comparable to the greatest player ever is playing here, now, right before our eyes and you ignore his greatness because of........Pau Gasol???

So you put Kobe on a bad team and he is not a top 5 player? WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU PEOPLE WATCHING????

Kobe had his best years when he had no supporting cast...he was the best player in the game, bar none! When Garnett had a weak supporting cast, he was a top 5 player at the time...people who know basketball should be able to seperate legitimate greatness in a player from the talent or lack thereof of his teammates. Kobe is no more overrated than Jordan, Lebron or any of the other great players. Your argument is groundless...would you say the same things about Magic Johnson? Larry Bird? I doubt it. They always had great players around them...what did Jordan do before his supporting cast got better?
What does Pau have to do with Bron?
 

houheffna

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hahaha...

Lebron doesn't play like Jordan, nobody has ever played like Lebron...Kobe plays like Jordan...consider yourself educated....

you are about as funny as rectal cancer...
 

Shakes

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houheffna wrote:
Kobe had his best years when he had no supporting cast...he was the best player in the game, bar none!

You mean the years when he was branded a selfish ball hog who couldn't get along with his team mates?
 

houheffna

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You mean the years when he was branded a selfish ball hog who couldn't get along with his team mates?

Yeah, those years...just like Michael Jordan had those same problems in the late '80's and had that same reputation. It doesn't matter how he was "branded"...those who watched him knew how great he was...c'mon bruh...
 

TheStig

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houheffna wrote:
hahaha...

Lebron doesn't play like Jordan, nobody has ever played like Lebron...Kobe plays like Jordan...consider yourself educated....

you are about as funny as rectal cancer...

I hope your not trying to compare that selfish ballhog to MJ. Just cause someone tried to immatate the greatest of all time doesn't make him even close.
 

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