I know why i got fat.

[Warrior Spirit]

Stopped the IF today. Decided to transition with a 36 hour fast that actually lasted 40 hours. At about noon today, my normal first meal, had 5 fried eggs, bacon, 2 glasses of milk and a couple PB & J sandwiches. IF is great though and something I will continue to do in the future on a more short term basis here and there just for the many physical benefits it brings. Man was not made to graze like a farm animal all day. It's good to get primal now and then. Many health benefits from it and actually boosts the metabolism in many different ways, contrary to our Aussie friend's concerns to the contrary. There are many different variations of IF and the 24-48 hour fast is also a popular one. It gets the body feeding off your fat stores and there was a study a while back by the Heart Institute that showed men who went through a 24 hour fast increased their circulating HGH by 2000% while women had 1300% more.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I feel like I've read/heard that artificial sweeteners actually do make you gain weight, but I might be making that up.

You're not, pal. There has been many studies linking it to both weight gain and diabetes.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

They only indirectly lead to weight gain because the chemicals make you feel more hungry. Probably 90% of the population that uses them falls into the trap and ends up eating more. However, there are people that can use them properly while not gaining weight.

There is no scientific study that demonstrates that a diet coke with grilled chicken and steamed vegetables causes weight gain while a water with that same amount of grilled chicken and steamed vegetables causes weight loss.

Sugar, in general, makes you feel more hungry. Artificial sweeteners makes you feel even more hungry and drastically slow down your metabolism while they trick your body into thinking it's getting sugar and then when it doesn't will take sugar from other sources like protein and store more as fat.

You mention diet coke and that reminds me of an Australian study that, I believe, was done with just women. Of women who drank 1 diet soda a day, they were 33% more likely to get diabetes. Those who drank 2 diet sodas a day doubled that risk.

 

[Adipost]

I feel like I've read/heard that artificial sweeteners actually do make you gain weight, but I might be making that up.

[video=youtube_share;5yq5Tr6uGbg]https://youtu.be/5yq5Tr6uGbg[/video]

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

:shrug:

I just know that you need calories out over calories in.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Well that is true but you also need the right calories

Like let’s take vegetables like broccoli. Pretty much 0 calories but it does have carbs in it. You still have to account for that. Or let’s say you wanted to eat a few slices of pizza for your calories of the day it’s still all shit calories with lots of negative impact. So it’s not as easy as just eat this many calories daily you need a strategy and map it out

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Well that is true but you also need the right calories

No doubt. I just say that because my overall knowledge of all this is very limited, so I like to keep things simple. Workout as much as I can, (try) eat as healthy as I can, sleep, water, rinse, repeat.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

[video=youtube_share;5yq5Tr6uGbg]https://youtu.be/5yq5Tr6uGbg[/video]

Yes, a shoulder-less meathead trumps clinical studies. Can't even believe this is a point of argument anymore.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

My Fitness Pal is an app I like. Enter your ht., weight, desired weight loss and target date, it then will give your daily intake . Just log everything you eat and it tracks it for you. It also links with Strava to calculate cardio workouts into your food intake.

 

[Adipost]

Yes, a shoulder-less meathead trumps clinical studies. Can't even believe this is a point of argument anymore.

The only studies they have are that fat people keep on getting fatter. But not factoring in how many calories these people are actually consuming besides the artificial sweeteners is pointless. I could cut out all carbs for a week, drink nothing but artificial sweeteners, and I’ll lose the same amount of weight as if I was drinking nothing but water. It’s not very complicated to understand this.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

The only studies they have are that fat people keep on getting fatter. But not factoring in how many calories these people are actually consuming besides the artificial sweeteners is pointless. I could cut out all carbs for a week, drink nothing but artificial sweeteners, and I’ll lose the same amount of weight as if I was drinking nothing but water. It’s not very complicated to understand this.

That's not true cause what you and many other people don't realize is zero calories does not mean there is zero effect on the metabolism. What many also don't realize is that as much talk that there is about calories, you're body doesn't even know what a fuckin' calorie is and only reacts to and metabolizes different foods differently.

You ignore a lot of studies that show these known toxins not only contribute to obesity but present many other health hazards. It is known they cause very negative reactions in the body such as slowing the metabolism, causing more hunger and upsetting the bacteria makeup and balance in the gut. They do this by enhancing the populations of gut bacteria that are more efficient at pulling energy from our food and turning that energy into fat, hence more fat to be stored on your body. But, hey, if you plan on intensively working out for hours every day you can burn that fat. Are you really going to use bodybuilders as reason these artificial sweeteners won't harm the average person? I wouldn't expect any of them to say artificial sweeteners are bad for you. They're willing to happily accept the known risks of heavy steroid use so why would they even give a second thought about sweeteners?


I don't know why people adamantly defend this shit. Why not just avoid it cause so many studies have linked it to being very bad for you in many ways? Can one not reason that something artificial, genetically modified and made in a lab, is probably something they should steer away from anyway?

 

[Adipost]

That's not true cause what you and many other people don't realize is zero calories does not mean there is zero effect on the metabolism. What many also don't realize is that as much talk that there is about calories, you're body doesn't even know what a fuckin' calorie is and only reacts to and metabolizes different foods differently.

You ignore a lot of studies that show these known toxins not only contribute to obesity but present many other health hazards. It is known they cause very negative reactions in the body such as slowing the metabolism, causing more hunger and upsetting the bacteria makeup and balance in the gut. They do this by enhancing the populations of gut bacteria that are more efficient at pulling energy from our food and turning that energy into fat, hence more fat to be stored on your body. But, hey, if you plan on intensively working out for hours every day you can burn that fat. Are you really going to use bodybuilders as reason these artificial sweeteners won't harm the average person? I wouldn't expect any of them to say artificial sweeteners are bad for you. They're willing to happily accept the known risks of heavy steroid use so why would they even give a second thought about sweeteners?


I don't know why people adamantly defend this shit. Why not just avoid it cause so many studies have linked it to being very bad for you in many ways? Can one not reason that something artificial, genetically modified and made in a lab, is probably something they should steer away from anyway?

You’re looking way too much into this stuff. Dissect anything, and it’s bad for you. Sweeteners aren’t any more dangerous than most anything else we eat. Drinking the sugar is ultimately much worse for you than drinking it’s chemically made alternative.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You’re looking way too much into this stuff. Dissect anything, and it’s bad for you. Sweeteners aren’t any more dangerous than most anything else we eat. Drinking the sugar is ultimately much worse for you than drinking the artificial sweetener.

Not true at all unless you think it's better to drink neurotoxins than not. You would actually do better by yourself to drink the sugar rather than the artificial sweetener. While neither is good for you in excess, not only are the lab made artificial sweeteners going to do much more harm but how much of your food do you actually put sugar on? Generally, people don't add sugar to much of anything but their morning coffee or tea so it's not really too much sugar people are using, it's too much sugar that comes with the drinks and food they buy. And for those who, ignorantly, worry about adding 100 calories or so, they reach for the zero calorie drinks with these toxic sweeteners that both present potential harm and are going to make them so much more hungry the 100 or so calories will pale in comparison to the extra food they eat cause they are so hungry.

I'm sure if people were more educated and understood more about the health risks and that, with these lab made sweeteners, they were essentially putting wood alcohol, chlorine, and formaldehyde in their systems, they'd either drink more water or just concede to more calories in their drinks.

 

[Adipost]

Not true at all unless you think it's better to drink neurotoxins than not. You would actually do better by yourself to drink the sugar rather than the artificial sweetener. While neither is good for you in excess, not only are the lab made artificial sweeteners going to do much more harm but how much of your food do you actually put sugar on? Generally, people don't add sugar to much of anything but their morning coffee or tea so it's not really too much sugar people are using, it's too much sugar that comes with the drinks and food they buy. And for those who, ignorantly, worry about adding 100 calories or so, they reach for the zero calorie drinks with these toxic sweeteners that both present potential harm and are going to make them so much more hungry the 100 or so calories will pale in comparison to the extra food they eat cause they are so hungry.

I'm sure if people were more educated and understood more about the health risks and that, with these lab made sweeteners, they were essentially putting wood alcohol, chlorine, and formaldehyde in their systems, they'd either drink more water or just concede to more calories in their drinks.

We must live in different countries. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average American consumed 120+ grams of sugar from drinks per day. And besides the calories, more importantly, drinking sugary beverages throughout the day constantly raises insulin levels. Controlling insulin levels is the key to weight loss. Every time you release insulin, your body begins to store fat. Most pro bodybuilders actually inject insulin to gain weight while bulking up. That’s why intermittent fasting is so effective. You maintain very low insulin level throughout the day.

And the reason I reference bodybuilders is because cutting your body down to under 5% body fat while maintaining muscle is a very precise science. Every single calorie has to be accounted for, the discipline required is unbelievable. If artificial sweeteners caused even an ounce of fat gain, bodybuilders would see it immediately and they would not be using it in their cutting phase.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

We must live in different countries. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average American consumed 120+ grams of sugar from drinks per day. And besides the calories, more importantly, drinking sugary beverages throughout the day constantly raises insulin levels. Controlling insulin levels is the key to weight loss. Every time you release insulin, your body begins to store fat. Most pro bodybuilders actually inject insulin to gain weight while bulking up. That’s why intermittent fasting is so effective. You maintain very low insulin level throughout the day.

And the reason I reference bodybuilders is because cutting your body down to under 5% body fat while maintaining muscle is a very precise science. Every single calorie has to be accounted for, the discipline required is unbelievable. If artificial sweeteners caused even an ounce of fat gain, bodybuilders would see it immediately and they would not be using it in their cutting phase.

We don't live in different countries. I was merely alluding to what sugar the average person adds to drinks like coffee themselves and it wouldn't be so much that regular sugar would be that hurtful, certainly not as hurtful as something like nutrasweet or sweet&low. There's also the more healthy substitute of raw honey. The fact is most sugar average people use already comes in the drinks and foods they buy. This means they're not really giving much thought to what sweetener is in those drinks, just choosing the drinks that offer zero calories. Many people have become much more aware of the fact how bad artificial sweeteners are though, no doubt the reason bottled water has become so popular and more water is sold now than those sodas and zero calorie drinks.

The reason I think you chose bodybuilding is because you know mostly all the steroid using freaks in bodybuilding support the use of artificial sweeteners and disregard all those studies that show the harm these toxins cause. You also have to realize that with all the heavy working out they do, they have much more use for carbs than the average population so, yes, it's more likely sugar is fed to their muscles than stored as fat. And, as you mention, they are also manipulating insulin levels. They don't do that just to add weight either. After a workout, your muscles are tired and depleted of energy. By increasing the blood sugar levels, it sends excess sugar into your muscles, and since your muscles need it, no excess sugar is stored as fat. You'd want to do this post workout and also in the morning when waking up as the muscle glycogen stores will be depleted. An insulin spike also helps transport the creatine effectively to the muscles without bloating. Surely you can see how none of this has anything to do with the general public.

What artificial sweeteners do among the average peeps is fake out the body and confuse the brain. The aftermath is the body calls for and makes too much sugar after the fake out and thus stores it as fat as most people, outside of bodybuilding, don't have the huge muscles that need all that energy nor are they taking it to the extreme in the gym hours on end every day. And, as I mentioned before, artificial sweeteners upset the bacteria makeup and balance in the gut by enhancing the populations of gut bacteria that are more efficient at pulling energy from our food. While that leads to fat being stored in average people, the excess energy being pulled from a bodybuilders food is more likely to be stored in their glycogen starving muscles than as fat.

 

[Adipost]

We don't live in different countries. I was merely alluding to what sugar the average person adds to drinks like coffee themselves and it wouldn't be so much that regular sugar would be that hurtful, certainly not as hurtful as something like nutrasweet or sweet&low. There's also the more healthy substitute of raw honey. The fact is most sugar average people use already comes in the drinks and foods they buy. This means they're not really giving much thought to what sweetener is in those drinks, just choosing the drinks that offer zero calories. Many people have become much more aware of the fact how bad artificial sweeteners are though, no doubt the reason bottled water has become so popular and more water is sold now than those sodas and zero calorie drinks.

The reason I think you chose bodybuilding is because you know mostly all the steroid using freaks in bodybuilding support the use of artificial sweeteners and disregard all those studies that show the harm these toxins cause. You also have to realize that with all the heavy working out they do, they have much more use for carbs than the average population so, yes, it's more likely sugar is fed to their muscles than stored as fat. And, as you mention, they are also manipulating insulin levels. They don't do that just to add weight either. After a workout, your muscles are tired and depleted of energy. By increasing the blood sugar levels, it sends excess sugar into your muscles, and since your muscles need it, no excess sugar is stored as fat. You'd want to do this post workout and also in the morning when waking up as the muscle glycogen stores will be depleted. An insulin spike also helps transport the creatine effectively to the muscles without bloating. Surely you can see how none of this has anything to do with the general public.

What artificial sweeteners do among the average peeps is fake out the body and confuse the brain. The aftermath is the body calls for and makes too much sugar after the fake out and thus stores it as fat as most people, outside of bodybuilding, don't have the huge muscles that need all that energy nor are they taking it to the extreme in the gym hours on end every day. And, as I mentioned before, artificial sweeteners upset the bacteria makeup and balance in the gut by enhancing the populations of gut bacteria that are more efficient at pulling energy from our food. While that leads to fat being stored in average people, the excess energy being pulled from a bodybuilders food is more likely to be stored in their glycogen starving muscles than as fat.

You are going all in here based on a single completely unproven and highly questionable Israeli study using lab mice. Not only that, but many researchers have dismissed this study completely.

ACSH chemist Dr. Josh Bloom

“The premise of this study—that artificial sweeteners affect the microbial composition in the gut—makes absolutely no sense chemically, physiologically, or pharmacologically. The authors are taking chemicals that have exactly one thing in common—sweetness—and trying to correlate this with changes in gut bacteria that may be responsible for raising blood sugar — and in mice, no less!.” ...

What is the problem?

It is the absolute lack of any biologically plausible hypothesis to explain, well, anything really.

Why is this? Sweetness is a function of the interaction of certain molecules with the sweet receptors on the tongue.

Dr. Bloom: “There is a wide variety of chemicals that are sweet, both synthetic and naturally occurring. They have exactly one thing in common—taste. What can this possibly have to do with an effect on gut bacteria? Nothing.

“The authors really should have dug up a chemist before they got involved with this silly study. There are plenty of us around—mostly unemployed. Because he/she would have pointed out the gaping hole in the logic of the study—that you cannot group a chemically diverse group of chemicals simply because they are sweet, and draw any conclusion whatsoever about anything other that the taste.

Dr. Bloom continues, “It might be possible (although still highly unlikely) that any single sweet chemical could have some effect on (you name it), but to then lump in other chemicals that have nothing in common structurally or chemically is ludicrous. You might as well take random chemicals out of a lab and test them, because chemically, this is essentially what they did.”

He adds. “As a chemist, if I saw a bunch of unrelated chemicals doing the the same thing in a test, my mind would start screaming ‘the biology is a mess.’ This was borne out hundreds of times during my career. It is one of the most important issues in drug discovery—whether the biology makes sense.” ...

“This just doesn’t add up. You could just as well group chemicals together because they are yellow. It makes as much sense.”

There have been actual human case studies done on artificial sweeteners. For example, 3 separate human studies showing that artificial sweeteners do not in fact increase appetite over alternatives. But you choose to dismiss these human studies, and instead latch on to 1 highly skeptical lab mouse study to prove your entire position. It’s as though you just choose to believe what you want to believe, never mind any actual facts, as long as it lines up with your preconceived opinion.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You are going all in here based on a single completely unproven and highly questionable Israeli study using lab mice. Not only that, but many researchers have dismissed this study completely.

ACSH chemist Dr. Josh Bloom



There have been actual human case studies done on artificial sweeteners. For example, 3 separate human studies showing that artificial sweeteners do not in fact increase appetite over alternatives. But you choose to dismiss these human studies, and instead latch on to 1 highly skeptical lab mouse study to prove your entire position. It’s as though you just choose to believe what you want to believe, never mind any actual facts, as long as it lines up with your preconceived opinion.

Actually I choose to believe what makes sense. If you ask me what’s better to consume, a food that nature offers or a food man creates in a lab by accident, I’m going with nature 100 out of 100 times.

Also, there’s been plenty of other studies that show that not only are sugar substitutes highly addictive, no doubt why you have that group who will still staunchly defend them, but do lead to weight gain for the general population. So whether the cause for that weight gain is exactly the one thing shown in that single study or not, there are other ways it leads to weight gain and the point I was making is still very much true. If you’re talking about a group of people whose lifestyle is all about working out heavily and build thick muscle throughout their entire body, there is simply much more use and places for that energy (sugar) to be stored before the body reverts to storing it as fat. This is why bodybuilding is heavily suggested as a cure for those with type 2 diabetes.

Also realize that all these sugar substitutes, that have and will continue to come out, are big business and who better to protect corporate interests than the US government?

In the 70s, when sweet&low was found by multiple studies to potentially cause health risks such as cancer, the FDA was going to ban it but congress stopped that ban and suggested that just putting health warning labels on it would suffice. Then with continued lobbying even those labels were eventually removed.

So, to recap.... oh, hell no, I’m not gonna trust the FDA or the government when they say this or that is safe enough, and I’ll trust what nature has provided as food for humans over known toxic shit created by man in a lab every single time.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Sugar, in general, makes you feel more hungry. Artificial sweeteners makes you feel even more hungry and drastically slow down your metabolism while they trick your body into thinking it's getting sugar and then when it doesn't will take sugar from other sources like protein and store more as fat.

You mention diet coke and that reminds me of an Australian study that, I believe, was done with just women. Of women who drank 1 diet soda a day, they were 33% more likely to get diabetes. Those who drank 2 diet sodas a day doubled that risk.

Yes, but you need to consider the compliance of the eating habits as well as activity levels for the people drinking diet coke regularly vs those drinking water.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

There is not a SINGLE study that shows that diet soda independently causes metabolism to slow down. You might believe it does based on your own intuition, but there is not evidence in this.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Actually I choose to believe what makes sense. If you ask me what’s better to consume, a food that nature offers or a food man creates in a lab by accident, I’m going with nature 100 out of 100 times.

Also, there’s been plenty of other studies that show that not only are sugar substitutes highly addictive, no doubt why you have that group who will still staunchly defend them, but do lead to weight gain for the general population. So whether the cause for that weight gain is exactly the one thing shown in that single study or not, there are other ways it leads to weight gain and the point I was making is still very much true. If you’re talking about a group of people whose lifestyle is all about working out heavily and build thick muscle throughout their entire body, there is simply much more use and places for that energy (sugar) to be stored before the body reverts to storing it as fat. This is why bodybuilding is heavily suggested as a cure for those with type 2 diabetes.

Also realize that all these sugar substitutes, that have and will continue to come out, are big business and who better to protect corporate interests than the US government?

In the 70s, when sweet&low was found by multiple studies to potentially cause health risks such as cancer, the FDA was going to ban it but congress stopped that ban and suggested that just putting health warning labels on it would suffice. Then with continued lobbying even those labels were eventually removed.

So, to recap.... oh, hell no, I’m not gonna trust the FDA or the government when they say this or that is safe enough, and I’ll trust what nature has provided as food for humans over known toxic shit created by man in a lab every single time.

You are starting to argue different things.

Is water better for you than diet soda? ABSOLUTLEY. Water is natural.
Does diet soda give people a false sense of security that they have "earned" the right to eat more junk food because they saved 200 calories from a real sugar soda? Yes. Does it cause people to feel more hungry and binge eat? Yes.

HOWEVER -

Will diet soda cause weight gain over soda when EVERYTHING ELSE is exactly the same? No it doesn't.