IST:Cubs vs. Cards

[Grizzly]

Wow!! Another douchebag!!

Wow!! another little prick!!

 

[CSF77]

I disagree because both of them could perform. Until Soler went down, his eye at the plate from Spring Training was back. One could beat out the other and the winner could get traded as part of a package for a young TOR. None of us ha e control over the FO and each plays a different position. Different teams have different needs, blah, blah, blah. It isn't really an "argument". It is however an interesting discussion. Obviously YMMV.

To be perfectly honest I would rather keep Castro and trade Soler.

1 big reason. Castro is a vet Soler is un proven. The team has a ton of unproven and soon to add Almoa and subtract Fowler. So that proven value weighs more to the Cubs vs Soler.

Have to remember all these rookies most likely will go through sophomore slumps also.

I would rather have known production. Just saying. Even if it has potential less impact.

Still I would rather have Soler out there making his case right now. Let his performance dictate things vs us speculating his value.

 

[SilenceS]

Castro is hitting .356/.366/.589 with six doubles, five homers and 14 RBI in 93 plate appearances. Thats since he was benched.

 

[beckdawg]

Castro is hitting .356/.366/.589 with six doubles, five homers and 14 RBI in 93 plate appearances. Thats since he was benched.

Trade the bum? His K rate IIRC is also under 10% and his bb rate is around 2%. Dude is putting bat on ball A LOT.

 

[SilenceS]

Trade the bum? His K rate IIRC is also under 10% and his bb rate is around 2%. Dude is putting bat on ball A LOT.

He always has. Ive always thought that hurt him in some instances. He has such great eye to hand coordination that make him put the bat on the ball anywhere. I don't have any numbers to back this and I always wanted to look into it, but it seems a lot of pitches players foul off. His go into play. Creates a lot of grounders. Just a theory from watching him for 5 years. But, in this case, moving closer to the plate has done wonders for him driving the ball. He is hitting the outside pitch with more authority and turning on the inside pitches. The power surge has been great to see.

 

[beckdawg]

He always has. Ive always thought that hurt him in some instances. He has such great eye to hand coordination that make him put the bat on the ball anywhere. I don't have any numbers to back this and I always wanted to look into it, but it seems a lot of pitches players foul off. His go into play. Creates a lot of grounders. Just a theory from watching him for 5 years. But, in this case, moving closer to the plate has done wonders for him driving the ball. He is hitting the outside pitch with more authority and turning on the inside pitches. The power surge has been great to see.

I looked at his contact rate last week IIRC. the past 3 or so years he was hovering around 80%. Over the time span since he's benched he's up around 86% which is where he was as a rookie. Definitely seem like a different hitter lately. Like that they are getting him back to more of a contact approach than trying to have him walk more.

 

[SilenceS]

Tough one to win tom. Going against Wacha and we are going with a bullpen game. Wood getting the start.

Good news! Dodger have opened it up against the Pirates and should win which would put us a game back. Dbacks beating Giants 2-0 in the 7th. They are beating Bum. Its pretty much over. Cubs are playing to take the first wild card spot and long shot of winning the division.

 

[beckdawg]

Pirates lose.... it is actually absurd the 3 best teams in baseball now are all in the NL central though KC is tied with the cubs. I'd really like to see the cubs win the next two to put pressure on the cards. They'd still be 4 back with 13 to play but they still have a 3 game set @ pit, a 3 game @ atl, a 3 game home vs cin and a 4 game vs milwalkee. Cubs would have a 3 game home and away vs mil, a 3 game at home vs pit, a 1 game home vs KC and a 3 game at cincy.

You never know what can happen.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I disagree because both of them could perform. Until Soler went down, his eye at the plate from Spring Training was back. One could beat out the other and the winner could get traded as part of a package for a young TOR. None of us ha e control over the FO and each plays a different position. Different teams have different needs, blah, blah, blah. It isn't really an "argument". It is however an interesting discussion. Obviously YMMV.

People get into this discussion of who to trade as if it were a discussion on keeping the guy you like and trading the guy you don't. In Boston Theo traded Anibel Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez to The Marlins for Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett not because the former two were bad player but because he had need of the latter and that was the deal he could get. Early on this year I thought this team would look significantly different next year. I thought they would trade some young talent for some veterans for a more traditional contending mix.

I also thought Russell and Schwarber were a year away and would be September call ups. Later on in the year I thought maybe they were overachieving but the net effect would be experience for the young players. "Gosh wouldn't it be great if they got into the WC game?" Then I started to think what if they were actually getting better? Was that possible? Of course the old cliche is that you want to be playing your best ball in August and September but here there were four rookies and rookies don't play better in those months because they're not used to playing in them. Still they have played their best ball in August and September and Maddon has been as creative in putting his best lineups on the field every day as any manager I've ever seen. The sports radio crowd kept saying " he's gotta go with a set lineup eventually here right?" Because that's what is usually done. Yeah **** all that. This team isn't lucky, overachieving or otherwise winning when it shouldn't. It's a damned good baseball team period. Every time I try to predict what this team will do based on my nearly 50 year knowledge of baseball I'm invariably wrong.

What I'm saying here is that as far as what this team does in the offseason they're going to do what they believe makes a better team. If that's trading Soler, Baez or Castro they'll do that. My initial feelings on Baez and Soler have not changed much. I always thought Baez was a boom or bust player. He has some of the best raw tools I've ever seen but his 2014 MLB debut was disheartening. Soler just looks like a ball player to me me and I mean that in a positive way. He looks like a guy you trot out 158 times a year, barring injury, and he does his job. When he's on he has a great plate approach and defensively he should get better because he has just enough speed and a rocket launcher for an arm. Bottom line his floor his high and his ceiling is a guy who at the end of his career you'll say was, again, very good. Baez has the kind of special gifts you don't see everyday. His much discussed bat speed and baseball instincts among them. My preference is that Baez stays and Soler goes with Baez playing 3B, Bryant playing RF and Castro playing 2B especially if trading Castro means throwing him away and helping pay his salary for another team. I'd kind of like them to re-sign Fowler or replace him with Denard Span. Oh and I'd like two starting pitchers and a solid lefty in the pen please. Anyway those are my preferences. They don't count for shit. This team is going to do what it's going to do and be what it's going to be. Shit, what it's going to be in 2015 could very well be World Series champs for all we know. We make predictions as fans because that's what we do. I'm not stopping doing that either, I enjoy it. I'll also be wrong at least as often as I'm right.

My larger point in all of this long winded post is that you don't always make moves based on giving up what you don't want. If you did that all the time and hoodwinked other teams consistently by always "winning" trades no one would deal with you on larger moves. That situation has happened before. The best trades are ones where both teams are closer to their goals going forward. Sometimes that hurts. They'll make the moves they need to. This team is good from the FO, to the field management to the players. They'll all figure it out.

Oh and in a PS to all this, logic tells me they can't catch the Cardinals, but it also told me they couldn't catch the Pirates. 1 game back boys and girls! Now let's sweep those St. Louis bastards and let it all play out.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Excellent post and it's clear you understood what I meant by us not being the front office. I was just thinking this morning about what they might get in return by trading Baez for a young TOR. Who knows what they will do this off season.

 

[CSF77]

Great post TC.

Guys should watch Maddon's post game talk. Talked about Stl's H.B. Retaliation and his version of a payback. He was pretty irked.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Great post TC.

Guys should watch Maddon's post game talk. Talked about Stl's H.B. Retaliation and his version of a payback. He was pretty irked.

Can't watch it. Could you share his version of payback?

 

[SilenceS]

Can't watch it. Could you share his version of payback?

Im not sure what he saw but I read he was pissed about them throwing at Rizzo. He said the Cubs no intent on the Holiday HBP and for the Cardinals to come back and want to get their own flesh was ridiculous. He said the Cubs weren't going to take it. I think he was pretty pissed with Matheny. Maddon said he didn't know who ordered the hit but he didn't see Tony Soprano in the dugout. The gist was that if St. Louis want to play like assholes the Cubs weren't going to sit back and take it.

He was pretty fired up. It was like when the little brother finally realized it can beat big brother's ass and they are going to let them know about it.

 

[Diehardfan]

I read a quote from Haren in the paper this morning....Haren who was a Cardinal at one point says that retaliation is very much a part of the Cardinal culture.

 

[Diehardfan]

Can't watch it. Could you share his version of payback?

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/maddon-blows-cardinals-were-not-going-put?utm_source=Master+List&utm_campaign=35c7192ecf-Daily+CSNChicago.com+E-Blast&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_42daa4c82a-35c7192ecf-251516509

 

[TL1961]

I read a quote from Haren in the paper this morning....Haren who was a Cardinal at one point says that retaliation is very much a part of the Cardinal culture.

"Retaliation" is the wrong word. The Cards routinely hit their opponent's best hitter, and often twice. Very often.

They don't just happen to hit the Denorfias and LaStellas. They hit McCutcheon, Adrian Gonzalez, Rizzo, etc. It's always "innocent", but always the best hitter on the other team.

The Cards' mantra is "It all started when the other guy retaliated."

 

[DrGonzo]

I didn't care for Maddon's rant too much. I guess it's good that he's standing up for his club and serving notice. But personally I think he could have done that in a couple of sentences. Going on and on just sort of sounds insecure to me somehow.

 

[Grizzly]

Why am I not surprised the Cubs/ Cardinals pre game on Fox has 15 minutes of Mets/Yankee talk. Why not do separate feeds like the game?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Mike Matheny is a smug little asshole isn't he? He was smirking while addressing Maddon' s comments. Speaking of which now we get Joe Buck. Now let's get this done huh? Beat the pompous Cardinals on national TV and knock that smugness right off their faces.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I bet the Cards hit someone first to be pricks and have warnings issued.