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Ftfy
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People really like to downplay how much Pace really gave up to move up one spot. The future 3rd rounder they gave up could have been used to trade up from #67 to the middle of the 2nd round and still draft Shaheen. Then, just like what SF did, they could have used the 4th rounder they gave up to move back into the 1st round from #36. So basically Pace traded a TJ Watt, Reuben Foster, Ryan Ramczyk, Kevin King, Cam Robinson, Malik Mcdowell to move up 1 spot.
This is what it would look like:
1st - Trubisky
2nd (Trade up with 4th) -Watt/Foster/Ramczyk/King/Robinson/McDowell
3rd (Trade up with future 3rd) - Shaheen
4th (Trade up with 7th) - Jackson
5th - Morgan
So you are basically trading out Tarik Cohen for a 1st round player.
Or they could have drafted the exact same players, plus a high 2nd round pick.
1st - Trubisky
2nd - Budda Baker/Zay Jones/Forrest Lamp/Dalvin Cook/Marcus Williams/Sidney Jones
3rd (trade up with future 3rd) - Shaheen
4th - Jackson
5th - Cohen
6th - Morgan
7th - ???
Either way you look at it, the Bears gave up a 1st round talent to move up 1 spot
AussieBear
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i hear ye but dats too complex.. me easy visual be from a thread i replied in the ova day.. aint rethanking it..
they do not trade up for trubisky, cause they didnt have to trade up to begin with.....nor do they trade back up for eddie jackson at pick 112, bcecasue they still have pick 111 without the trubisky trade.
the bears do still trade down with ari - pick 36 for 45, 119, 197 and 18 4th.
So what could the bears have got wiff those extra pickss something like dis
3 Mitch Trubisky
45 Adam Shaheen
67 Tim Williams (OLB)
111 Eddie Jackson
117 Josh Reynolds (WR)
119 Tarik Cohen
147 Jordan Morgan
197 Brad Kaaya (QB)
221 Stevie Tu'ikolovatu (NT)
so you baysucklly traded ... tim williams, josh reynolds, brad kaaya, stevie tookie and a 18th 3rd rder for mitch... for no reason.. when ya could of had mitch and kept the rest...
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Yeah, sorry about that. I edited it with a simpler example.
satchice
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I think you are missing the whole point. If Pace didn't trade up he would not have Trubisky. SF would of traded with team X, who would of took Trubisky. Pace would of been stuck at #3. Pace could NOT of trade the #3. We know this because Lynch could not trade #3 after Trubisky was off the board. So, what you are suggesting is to have another wasted year without identifying a QB for the long term.
JoJoBoxer
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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Since Trubisky was going to get drafted by someone at #2, the Bears would not get him at #3.
So the 1st two picks would be more like:
1. Adams
2. Kizer
The big difference would be that Pace would not have drafted his top QB and BPA at a position of dire need.
FoCo
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No leverage because Lynch thought Pace wanted Solomon Thomas. And yes, other teams were offering jack. The Bears were just in the best position because the 49ers only had to move down one spot. And has been pointed out numerous times, when the Bears took Trubisky at #2 the 49ers phone stopped ringing. The 49ers misplayed their hand because Lynch had no idea that Pace wanted Trubisky
If Lynch knew the Bears wanted Trubisky along with every other team that was calling he could have started a bidding war. Pace was also fielding calls about the #3 pick for Trubisky and telling them he would trade it to them keeping the teams from offering more to the 49ers because they thought they could get him at 3.
This is the least amount ever paid by a team to move to the #2 spot in the draft. Including the other time a team moved from #3 to #2.
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This concept is too difficult for the daft on this board to comprehend. This was the year to trade up and grab the QB of Pace's choice. Next year, I bet he trades down to a QB hungry team since I think they have one more year of drafting in that range.
JoJoBoxer
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and not for a 3rd rounder, a 4th rounder in 2018 and a 3rd rounder in 2019.
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And don't forget that if we took Thomas as expected by Lynch, they could have moved down again and took one of those other offers at 3. May have played into it. Anyone that would have been happy with Mitchell at 3 should be happy with this trade up to 2.
JoJoBoxer
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It is funny but the team that got fleeced in that deal was the 49ers. Pace fooled the teams wanting to move up to draft Trubisky by seeming to want to trade the #3 pick and he fooled the 49ers into believing that he didn't want Trubisky because he spent free agent money on Glennen, a QB that can be used as Trubisky transitions to the starting role, and ended up paying chicken feed for the top player (maybe besides Garrett) on his board (and at a position of dire need).
It was a masterful job by Pace.
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We gave 2 3s for Marshall.
satchice
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This is exactly right... Lynch had full intentions of trading down in the draft, and he probally thought he would get a extra first rd next year and at least an extra 2nd. When Pace called he most likely figured the same deals would be in place but he would also pick up the chicken scratch extra 3s and 4 from pace. I suspect Lycnh thought he was going to get a 2017 #3 + 2017 3rd + 2017 4th + 2018 3rd for the #2 and then a 2017 #12 + 2018 1st + 2017 2nd + 2018 3rd for the #3 at minimum and most likely he would of trade the #12 to the Texans. Instead he dealt with Pace and got a DL man and a couple mid rd picks and Pace got the best QB in the draft.
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Why the Bears' draft trade is bad, even if Mitchell Trubisky ends up being good
Will Brinson May 8, 2017
You don't get medals in football for trying, you get them for results. And the decision by the Bears to trade up for Mitchell Trubisky will ultimately be judged on the results. If Trubisky is a good quarterback, Chicago general manager Ryan Pace will be applauded for doing what he had to do to get a franchise quarterback. If Trubisky stinks, it won't really matter, because Pace's bags will be packed for him.
So it's easy to just throw your hands in the air and wait to find out whether Pace made the right move. But it's also important to point out that process matters too in these things. And the process for Pace and the Bears in acquiring Trubisky was severely flawed.
Let's look at a few reasons why.
The trade itself
The Bears shook up the draft when they moved from No. 3 to No. 2 to take Trubisky . No one saw the trade coming, except the 49ers, and they sure didn't see the Trubisky pick coming. No one did, not even Trubisky. That's fine, because you want to make sure your plans aren't picked up on by other teams.
Spending too much time with Trubisky -- and by all accounts the Bears did not do that -- might have set off some red flags with teams like the Browns, who were also interested in Trubisky.
But it's pretty obvious that they negotiated against themselves on this one. An interview with 49ers GM John Lynch last week on ESPN Radio's "Mike and Mike" sort of solidifies that idea too.
Lynch was asked how the trade went down and said that he heard from Pace ahead of the draft, with Pace talking about staying in touch because the two GMs were picking right next to each other for several days. Then Pace called back the day before the draft.
"The day before the draft, Ryan called back again and I could tell the urgency had heated up and he said 'There's a scenario here in the first round where there's some teams that I understand want to get up to two. Have you had conversations?' And I said, 'Yes, indeed we have, with multiple teams,'" Lynch recalled. "At that point, he said 'We want the opportunity, will you call me if those things heat up.' And so I said, 'Yeah, Ryan, we had this discussion, absolutely.'
"The next day, the morning of the draft, he called back again. And at that point he was ready to go. So those talks started and meanwhile there were a couple other teams who were interested and it kept getting better."
Ryan Pace most likely could have stayed at No. 3 and still gotten Mitchell Trubisky.
So while Lynch did tell Pace there were other teams calling about the pick (and swears those teams were real), he also, according to his account of things, didn't try and leverage Pace into making a deal. Pace was pushing things right along all by himself, ensuring that the two sides could make a deal. That is the definition of negotiating against yourself.
Additionally, while it was probably smart not to tell Lynch who he was taking (because then maybe Lynch uses that to call Cleveland for a higher price), Pace probably could have saved himself on the move up if Lynch knew he was getting Solomon Thomas anyway.
The trade up wasn't cheap . While two third-round picks and a fourth-round pick isn't an exorbitant amount to land a franchise quarterback, it's not that simple either.
Opportunity cost
The picks that the Bears gave away could end up being really quality pieces and/or players. Let's start with the No. 111 pick, which the 49ers promptly used to move up from No. 34 to No. 31 and grab Reuben Foster. That could have been the Bears, and they could definitely use a standout linebacker.
Even if they don't make that trade, the players being taken in the range of the actual pick include safety Tedric Thompson (No. 111, Seahawks) and wide receivers Dede Westbrook (No. 110, Jaguars), Josh Reynolds (No. 117, Rams) and Mack Hollins (No. 118, Eagles). You think the Bears could use another offensive weapon for one of their two quarterbacks?
Their future third-round pick, actual number TBD, could easily end up being a top-75 pick. It's very likely. That could be a starting player out of the gate for another team.
The one that really stands out to me is the third-round pick the Bears gave up this year, No. 67 overall. The 49ers flipped that pick to the Saints, who snagged running back Alvin Kamara out of Tennessee. Even though the Bears have Jordan Howard, Kamara would be a strong addition to this roster.
More important, the 49ers picked up a future second-round pick from the Saints for the trade, along with pick No. 229. The latter pick ended up being Adrian Colbert, a cornerback out of Miami. If he ends up being any good, remember how they got him. And if the Saints end up going 7-9 for a fourth straight season, remember who the 49ers take with their top-50 pick next year. New Orleans picked No. 42 overall this past season and could very well give up a similar pick to the 49ers next season. The draft is a crapshoot, but there were some seriously talented players available at No. 42 this year.
The Glennon factor
The biggest surprise about the Bears and Trubisky was the fact that Pace just went out in free agency and signed Mike Glennon to a pretty hefty contract . Anyone who saw the money knew that Glennon wasn't guaranteed to be the starter in Chicago for more than a single year. But he was finally signing somewhere to be the guy, for at least a season, and that's likely out the window. Combining these two quarterbacks puts a pretty big wrench in the plans on a couple of different levels.
For starters, there's the obvious: competition. If Glennon struggles early or if the Bears aren't winning out of the gate, there will be substantial pressure to play Trubisky. Pace has stated repeatedly that Glennon is the starter, but depth chart lip service in May becomes worthless once August and September roll around.
Will the Bears stick with Mike Glennon if the team struggles early? USATSI
Pace knows the construction of this roster better than anyone else, because he largely constructed it. But there is certainly the possibility of a Glennon-Trubisky battle early on managing to fracture the locker room. The same goes for the team refusing to play Trubisky if the Bears are struggling.
At the very least, Pace has done a disservice to Glennon by signing him, presumably promising him an opportunity to play and then making a huge splash by drafting a rookie quarterback.
Oh, and he didn't tell Glennon he was doing it. The incumbent got to find out about his competition while at a Bears draft party held at Halas Hall. Bet that wasn't awkward at all. No wonder he feels cheated on .
Not telling anyone at all
The decision not to tell Glennon was bizarre. But the reported decision to not tell coach John Fox about the move up to draft Trubisky? That was just wild. It has been repeatedly mentioned that Fox was "heavily involved" in scouting Trubisky and that's probably true.
Maybe Pace even told Fox before the draft, before the pick or before the trade. It's irrelevant, because it's pretty obvious that the coach and the GM in Chicago aren't working hand-in-hand at the moment.
Pace isn't required to tell Fox every move he's making, but his goal should be providing the best possible team for Fox to coach up and that has to require some input from Fox.
The lack of harmony has a bit of "Grigson-Pagano" to it, albeit with less public sniping and fewer wins. Pace might outlast Fox in Chicago, but it's not a good look to have these public issues happening while the team is trying to acquire a franchise quarterback and get the ship righted.
It just doesn't scream "harmony" or "competent."
The final take
Again, maybe it all works out of the Bears. The Seahawks drafted a quarterback (albeit in the third round) the same offseason they signed Matt Flynn to a big free-agent contract and got blasted for picking Russell Wilson (who actually kept Glennon on the bench at NC State for two years). That worked out pretty well.
But the investment here in Trubisky isn't a single third-round pick, it's a fourth-round pick, too, and another third-round pick next year.
Pace will be fine with the move if Trubisky becomes a top-10 or top-15 quarterback some time in the next two or three years. But ultimately the process that led to the selection was badly flawed. The Bears shouldn't be rewarded for their decision-making in that respect, regardless of how this whole thing pans out.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why-the-bears-draft-trade-is-bad-even-if-mitchell-trubisky-ends-up-being-good/
SugarWalls
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Soooo there were multiple offers for the pick as admitted by lynch, but the Bears negotiated against themselves. Makes sense
satchice
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Why do you think this?
WHAT WE KNOW: multiple teams called Lynch asking to trade up; Multiple teams call Pace about trading up; After Pace took Trubisky at #2 NO TEAM wanted to trade up anymore at #3.
Basic comprehension skills would tell you that: all of the teams that were interested in trading up were ONLY interested in trading up for Trubisky, is also a FACT
So, if Pace doesn't trade up the 49ers would of traded down with team X and team X would of took Trubisky. Pace would of been stuck at #3 and he wasnt interested at any other QB at #3.
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Yes, there was another team looking to trade up, but I believe it was for Garrett in case he slipped. Also, SF was looking for a possible trade down before the Bears made their selection in case the Bears drafted Thomas. There was no interest, but it worked out for them anyway because Thomas was still on the board.
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That article was a load of shit. The guy acts like he knows if every team would have traded up, and he doesn't. It's almost as bad as quoting "anonymous sources."
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I really didn't come to this thread to debate whether or not the trade was necessary. The point I was trying to make with my first post was to refute the belief that the picks Pace trade were insignificant.
JUSTWIN
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Let's just look at the value chart since we don't know definitively if Trubisky would or would not be there at #3.
+400 (3 to 2 overall..we gained 400)
-255 (67 3rd round we lose 255)
-72 (111 4th round we lose 72)
-255 (assume we have the same 2018 3rd round pick at 67 so we lose 255)
----------
-182 (we lose 182 pts based on the draft value chart which equates to late mid 3rd rounder)
If Trubisky is a top 10 QB in this league, that is a steal.
+400 (3 to 2 overall..we gained 400)
-255 (67 3rd round we lose 255)
-72 (111 4th round we lose 72)
-255 (assume we have the same 2018 3rd round pick at 67 so we lose 255)
----------
-182 (we lose 182 pts based on the draft value chart which equates to late mid 3rd rounder)
If Trubisky is a top 10 QB in this league, that is a steal.