John Lynch just on radio here in SD

[SugarWalls]

I really didn't come to this thread to debate whether or not the trade was necessary. The point I was trying to make with my first post was to refute the belief that the picks Pace trade were insignificant.

But the purpose of the article originally posted, and of the thread in general, was that lynch had multiple teams calling him for the #2 pick. Then you post an older article speculating that's not true. Are you simple ignoring this information for means of your own narrative? Why is the article you quoted gospel, when lynch has just recently said he had multiple teams calling him for the #2 pick?

How do you know those calls stopped after pick 1 was Garrett when there is literally 0 evidence of that being true.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

"The next day, the morning of the draft, he called back again. And at that point he was ready to go. So those talks started and meanwhile there were a couple other teams who were interested and it kept getting better."

Other teams who were interested and it kept getting better ... sure sounds like Pace wasn't trying to outbid himself. But thanks for playing the game.

Lynch thought Pace was going for Thomas and so he believed that he could have his cake and eat it too. He thought he would would get the chicken feed 3rd and 4th rounders in 2017 and a 3rd rounder in 2018 and then get a 1st rounder plus other things for Trubisky at #3.

He played his cards and lost to Pace. The phone calls dried up at #3 because no was interested anymore because Trubisky was no longer available.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Fucking Bears fans.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Yes, there was another team looking to trade up, but I believe it was for Garrett in case he slipped. Also, SF was looking for a possible trade down before the Bears made their selection in case the Bears drafted Thomas. There was no interest, but it worked out for them anyway because Thomas was still on the board.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Way to spin the truth.

The 49ers WAITED for calls when they were on the clock at #3. That was AFTER both Garrett and Trubisky drafted. There was no reason to be waiting for calls in case Thomas got drafted at #2 if they already knew that he was available at #3 when they were on the clock.

There were several teams (the post you made, not mine) who were calling the 49ers at #2 (after Garrett was gone). Do you really think they were calling the 49ers about trading up the #2 to draft Garrett after Garrett had already been drafted at #1?

So if they were all calling at #2, who do you think they wanted to move up for since Garrett had already come off the board at #1?

If your belief is correct and they were calling to move up to #2 to draft someone who was not Garrett nor Trubisky, why did they stop calling when SF was at #3 and the player was still available?

An ounce of common sense tells you that the player they were calling for was Trubisky. Lynch thought he could double trade down with the Bears for Thomas and then with another team for Trubisky at #3. Pace hustled multiple teams into thinking he was not interested in Trubisky and he played them all.

Masterful!

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I really didn't come to this thread to debate whether or not the trade was necessary. The point I was trying to make with my first post was to refute the belief that the picks Pace trade were insignificant.

They were absolutely necessary. Without them, Pace would have had to trade something more valuable to get Trubisky.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Let's just look at the value chart since we don't know definitively if Trubisky would or would not be there at #3.

+400 (3 to 2 overall..we gained 400)
-255 (67 3rd round we lose 255)
-72 (111 4th round we lose 72)
-255 (assume we have the same 2018 3rd round pick at 67 so we lose 255)
----------
-182 (we lose 182 pts based on the draft value chart which equates to late mid 3rd rounder)

If Trubisky is a top 10 QB in this league, that is a steal.

Your math is wrong. A 2018 3rd round pick is worth one round less. So it would be worth another 2017 4th round pick or 72, not 255.

So the Bears gain 400 but lose 255+72+72 = +1

It was basically a fair trade with the Bears actually winning the trade by 1 point.

Yet people are complaining?!

 

[Adipost]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Way to spin the truth.

The 49ers WAITED for calls when they were on the clock at #3. That was AFTER both Garrett and Trubisky drafted. There was no reason to be waiting for calls in case Thomas got drafted at #2 if they already knew that he was available at #3 when they were on the clock.

There were several teams (the post you made, not mine) who were calling the 49ers at #2 (after Garrett was gone). Do you really think they were calling the 49ers about trading up the #2 to draft Garrett after Garrett had already been drafted at #1?

So if they were all calling at #2, who do you think they wanted to move up for since Garrett had already come off the board at #1?

If your belief is correct and they were calling to move up to #2 to draft someone who was not Garrett nor Trubisky, why did they stop calling when SF was at #3 and the player was still available?

An ounce of common sense tells you that the player they were calling for was Trubisky. Lynch thought he could double trade down with the Bears for Thomas and then with another team for Trubisky at #3. Pace hustled multiple teams into thinking he was not interested in Trubisky and he played them all.

Masterful!

Where did you get this from?

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Where did you get this from?

It was online about a week after the draft. It specifically talked about the 49ers waiting for calls while they were on the clock at #3 and received none.

Here is one that was mentioned,

At 5:29, after waiting for an offer that never came, Lynch picked up the landline on the table in front of him and dialed Thomas’s cell.

 

[Adipost]

Your math is wrong. A 2018 3rd round pick is worth one round less. So it would be worth another 2017 4th round pick or 72, not 255.

So the Bears gain 400 but lose 255+72+72 = +1

It was basically a fair trade with the Bears actually winning the trade by 1 point.

Yet people are complaining?!

Marathe got the Bears on the phone. “Cleveland needs not to do something crazy,” Marathe said to Pace. “Other than that we’re good to go if you are—67, 111 and next year’s three, 2018. Shoot, is next year 2018? Time flies. We’re close to a handshake, right?”

This means the Bears/49ers had a deal in place as long as Cleveland drafted Garrett. There was no negotiation of the #2 pick after Cleveland made their selection.

- The draft began. Garrett to the Browns. The trade with the Bears went through. No drama in the draft room. The TV seemed happier. “The 49ers picked up all that draft capital—phenomenal!” Mike Mayock said on NFL Network. Then the waiting, and Marathe made a round of phone calls between four and 14. Six teams said no. No trade-down.

PT. Lynch: “TRUBISKY!”

Marathe: “I TOLD YOU!”

That was a shock. Now the room went from possibly/probably reaching for Foster to picking Thomas.

This means the 49ers were looking for a contingency trade in case Thomas was drafted so that they didn't have to reach for Rueben Foster. No interest, but they were relieved when the Bears passed on Thomas.

 

[Adipost]

It was online about a week after the draft. It specifically talked about the 49ers waiting for calls while they were on the clock at #3 and received none.

Here is one that was mentioned,

Every GM waits for potential offers before they draft a player. It doesn't mean he was seeking a trade.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Every GM waits for potential offers before they draft a player. It doesn't mean he was seeking a trade.

If it were just SOP, it would not have been specifically mentioned in the article.

Lynch was expecting someone to want to trade up, but the market dried up after Trubisky was gone.

 

[Bearly]

I really didn't come to this thread to debate whether or not the trade was necessary. The point I was trying to make with my first post was to refute the belief that the picks Pace trade were insignificant.

I don't care for that take either. A good trade is where both teams get something they want or need and this trade qualifies. 3rd rounders have about a 1/3rd chance of becoming longer term starter. Add the 4th and it's very likely we lost a starter in the process and with some luck 2. The 4th counts. Whatever Pace did after that trade is separate from it. I also hate the narrative of the 4th not counting because Pace added one later.

The trade represented good value to me. The 'lost picks don't matter' or #fleest narratives just agenda driven noise.

 

[Adipost]

If it were just SOP, it would not have been specifically mentioned in the article.

Lynch was expecting someone to want to trade up, but the market dried up after Trubisky was gone.

That could very well be. But I personally believe it was only mentioned to show the timeline of events, and Lynch was just holding on just in case like every other GM would.

 

[Jailbreak]

My suspicion is that both parties knew what the other wanted. Lynch may have exerted some pressure, because I'm sure he had multiple calls about 2. My initial reaction was negative, but I'm OK with it. I'm not sure we would have gotten Trubisky if we hadn't traded. Apparently they had a lower grade on Trubisky, but I think most thought they loved Thomas. Who really knows?

 

[SugarWalls]

That could very well be. But I personally believe it was only mentioned to show the timeline of events, and Lynch was just holding on just in case like every other GM would.

Again, why are you taking that article as gospel? Because marathe was in there observing? If lynch says that he had multiple teams calling for the pick isn't that more valuable than marathe's speculation and story?

 

[Adipost]

Again, why are you taking that article as gospel? Because marathe was in there observing? If lynch says that he had multiple teams calling for the pick isn't that more valuable than marathe's speculation and story?

Marathe was in charge of the trade. He's the 49ers executive VP right under Jed York.

 

[JUSTWIN]

Your math is wrong. A 2018 3rd round pick is worth one round less. So it would be worth another 2017 4th round pick or 72, not 255.

So the Bears gain 400 but lose 255+72+72 = +1

It was basically a fair trade with the Bears actually winning the trade by 1 point.

Yet people are complaining?!

My bad. I am with you then....what the heck are people griping about??? There was no guarantee that Trubisky would be there at 3.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

That could very well be. But I personally believe it was only mentioned to show the timeline of events, and Lynch was just holding on just in case like every other GM would.

But "the call that never came" sure doesn't sound like just a timeline thing.

To make matters simple, Pace paid fair market value to move up to the #2 pick (he actually "won" that trade because he ended up with 1 more point than Lynch did.)

In the end, it didn't matter because Pace was all in on Trubisky (he hid his meeting with Trubs, he made it seem that he was willing to trade down from #3 so that teams wouldn't trade for the #2 pick and he was willing to safeguard that he could draft HIS QB of the future by moving to #2).

I believe that this is one of Pace's new draft strategies, if you want someone in the 1st, trade up to secure him. Trade down later to lesson the total hit on the move up. He has done the same thing 2 consecutive drafts.

 

[Adipost]

But "the call that never came" sure doesn't sound like just a timeline thing.

To make matters simple, Pace paid fair market value to move up to the #2 pick (he actually "won" that trade because he ended up with 1 more point than Lynch did.)

In the end, it didn't matter because Pace was all in on Trubisky (he hid his meeting with Trubs, he made it seem that he was willing to trade down from #3 so that teams wouldn't trade for the #2 pick and he was willing to safeguard that he could draft HIS QB of the future by moving to #2).

I believe that this is one of Pace's new draft strategies, if you want someone in the 1st, trade up to secure him. Trade down later to lesson the total hit on the move up. He has done the same thing 2 consecutive drafts.

This is true, Pace won the trade. And he should have traded up if he had any doubts. But that doesnt mean that what he gave up was a bunch of role players/special team players. He gave up a borderline first rounder, not some scrub special teamer like many here believe.

 

[JUSTWIN]

This is true, Pace won the trade. And he should have traded up if he had any doubts. But that doesnt mean that what he gave up was a bunch of role players/special team players.

But we are talking probabilities, no?