Keto and Intermittent Fasting

[Warrior Spirit]

He used to push frequent meals, 6 a day. However, the science started to indicate that it was no longer necessary as once thought. So, he says to eat as often as you like. What you can stick to. Same with macros. You want to be a keto guy? Go for it. You want 60% carbs? Go for it. His base recommendation that he likes is 40-40-30.

The great thing about Tom Venuto is he doesn't follow the trends. He goes based on what works based on science and documentation and he calls out people that make false claims. So he isn't necessarily against Keto or IT. He is against the false claims people make for WHY it works. Not that it does work.

Not as nuts as I had anticipated. :lol:

There's a couple of good keto/IF body builder types (casual stuff, not any kind of competitive body building) that have their own youtube channels people here can search up if they want. There's a lot actually but these 2 are most popular, the 1 more for keto and the other for IF.

Thomas DeLauer, he talks mainly keto but some IF as well. His thing is "to bring the science" and point to studies for mostly all of what he discusses in his vids.

The other is Fledge Fitness. He sticks more to just IF. From what I've seen, he doesn't follow a keto diet but rather relies solely on Intermittent Fasting and exercise. He does the more extreme IF, either the Warrior Diet (20/4) or OMAD (One Meal a day). Like DeLauer, he'll point to many studies to support the benefits of IF and what he's discussing in his vids.

 

[Burque]

He used to push frequent meals, 6 a day. However, the science started to indicate that it was no longer necessary as once thought. So, he says to eat as often as you like. What you can stick to. Same with macros. You want to be a keto guy? Go for it. You want 60% carbs? Go for it. His base recommendation that he likes is 40-40-30.

The great thing about Tom Venuto is he doesn't follow the trends. He goes based on what works based on science and documentation and he calls out people that make false claims. So he isn't necessarily against Keto or IT. He is against the false claims people make for WHY it works. Not that it does work.

That's bait

 

[Warrior Spirit]

He used to push frequent meals, 6 a day. However, the science started to indicate that it was no longer necessary as once thought. So, he says to eat as often as you like. What you can stick to. Same with macros. You want to be a keto guy? Go for it. You want 60% carbs? Go for it. His base recommendation that he likes is 40-40-30.

The great thing about Tom Venuto is he doesn't follow the trends. He goes based on what works based on science and documentation and he calls out people that make false claims. So he isn't necessarily against Keto or IT. He is against the false claims people make for WHY it works. Not that it does work.

Aww, WTF, I'll take the bait because it's a fuckin' slam dunk for me.

As I've mentioned before I went to keto not exactly for the weight loss, but for the health benefits. Was specifically looking to put an end to stomach problems as Crohn's was getting worse. Did drop more weight than imagined and real fast. But the main stomach problem was gone even faster. When I started keto, I didn't know much but the basics. As time went on I got it all down pat. I did keto in combination with IF.

Couldn't put my finger on why it all helped me so much and why it was so damn easy. Then listened to some others discuss different studies and also listened to other experts. Seemed like they were saying what I knew all along, calorie restriction was just something stupid people still believed in. Given the exact circumstances the body was built to handle best, it would quickly normalize your body while also healing it. Wish I knew these answers all along. It's awesome, so damn simple, and don't even have to work my ass off in the gym. Those of you who continue to calorie restrict just starve yourselves and set yourselves up for more weight struggles in the very near future. I didn't have to starve myself this time around or since. I finally did what my body always expected me to do and reaped the rewards.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I hope you all get to your goals with these keto diets. But for long term health, I believe something more along the lines of the Mediterranean diet (and more importantly its general principles) is a more reasonable approach. Although I wouldn't use the word "diet". I hate that word. It's more about a lifestyle change than anything.

Anyways, maybe something to consider when you drop the initial weight and are looking for something more sustainable over the long term.


Good luck bros!

The Mediterranean diet was voted best overall diet of 2019 by US News and World Report. I think the proteins it pushes, fish, chicken and eggs are likely the best. Have no trouble with the vegetables but the grains, legumes and fruit are overrated and contain too many carbs.

They also voted Weight Watchers the best diet to lose weight. Found that extremely funny. Here's a diet company that's been around for nearly 6 decades, reliant on repeat customers. To me, that just means a whole lot of fail in the weight loss department for those customers.

They also voted Keto the worst or, at least, one of the very worst diets. Am I butt hurt? Not exactly. Reason so many are down on keto is based on nothing more than sheer ignorance. They think of it as another fad low carb diet when, in fact, it is the original low carb diet that paved the way for all the others. The Atkins founder took the Atkins diet straight from Keto. In fact, the first week or 2 of the Atkins diet is the keto diet. Then it gradually allows more carbs into it, thinking that would make it more sustainable for most people.

Then another big criticism would be Keto is not sustainable. Well, all those proteins for the Mediterranean diet fit keto just fine and like the Mediterranean diet, Keto pushes the healthier oils like Olive oil. Think of your most common main meal as meat, vegetables and a starch. You can still have all but that starch. So I think it's a lot more sustainable than one would imagine at first glance. And, very often, you'll see people opt for just the meat and starch part of their main meal. Would it kill them to sub that starch out for vegetables? Of course not.

The other main criticism about Keto is it's "unnatural". This is laughable and usually, ironically, comes from the exercise/gym rat type peeps. These meatheads are apparently oblivious to the fact that what they're doing, while they kill themselves in the gym day after day for long periods while attempting to burn more fat and build more muscle, is attempting to get their bodies in a state of Ketosis. The body can't burn fat directly and so it converts it to ketones to effectively use as energy and burn it off.

When it comes to controlling your body weight and keeping it optimum, I think it's less about what you eat and more about how often you eat throughout the day. Keto is the only plan (I also wouldn't use the word "diet") that incorporates time restricted eating. It is married to IF cause it was intended to mimic fasting. Humans, like most animals, were designed to feast and fast. Your body doesn't store fat cause it hates you. It stores fat cause it expects you to be going longer periods of not eating. The intention was never for people to become the uncontrollable gluttons they have become.

This is why the calories in/calories out thing fails all the time. It's a simple and stupid belief that does nothing to account for how the body turns food into energy or how that fat storing thing it does works. Easy for it to store fat. Not so easy to burn it since it was stored for emergency use when you go longer periods without eating.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Aww, WTF, I'll take the bait because it's a fuckin' slam dunk for me.

As I've mentioned before I went to keto not exactly for the weight loss, but for the health benefits. Was specifically looking to put an end to stomach problems as Crohn's was getting worse. Did drop more weight than imagined and real fast. But the main stomach problem was gone even faster. When I started keto, I didn't know much but the basics. As time went on I got it all down pat. I did keto in combination with IF.

Couldn't put my finger on why it all helped me so much and why it was so damn easy. Then listened to some others discuss different studies and also listened to other experts. Seemed like they were saying what I knew all along, calorie restriction was just something stupid people still believed in. Given the exact circumstances the body was built to handle best, it would quickly normalize your body while also healing it. Wish I knew these answers all along. It's awesome, so damn simple, and don't even have to work my ass off in the gym. Those of you who continue to calorie restrict just starve yourselves and set yourselves up for more weight struggles in the very near future. I didn't have to starve myself this time around or since. I finally did what my body always expected me to do and reaped the rewards.

Glad it worked for you. Realize that you are suited for that type of eating. A lot of people are not. Also realize that if you increased your calories to 5,000 a day, eating the exact same types of food, and not increasing your exercising, you would get fat really quick. That right there proves that calories matter buddy.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Glad it worked for you. Realize that you are suited for that type of eating. A lot of people are not. Also realize that if you increased your calories to 5,000 a day, eating the exact same types of food, and not increasing your exercising, you would get fat really quick. That right there proves that calories matter buddy.

Why anybody would find the need for 5,000 calories, IDK. Unless you have a diet that's 100% comfort foods with no nutritional value that is not satiating you at all. Sounds like you expect to eat til you vomit and then eat some more.

Yes, nearly everybody is suited for the type of eating I mentioned cause all our bodies were meant to work in that fashion. Under normal circumstances, it's not your body that fails you. It's you who fail your body.

Obesity hasn't been a problem for very long. When you look at the history of man, it's only been a problem very recently, a mere minute fraction of our existence. Do you think people hundreds of years ago felt the pressing need to get to the gym to keep the weight off? Of course not. Didn't exactly drive around everywhere and sit at desks or in front of a TV or computer all day either. So, yes, something to be said about being more active but if you understand the true concept of how body weight is regulated you certainly don't need to count calories or sweat your ass off in a gym to maintain an optimal weight. The calories in/calories out thing is dogmatic idiocy. There is proof all around us that it does not work. That's only because it's not the way the body was designed to work.

When following the dogmatic calories in/calorie out thinking, there's really no thinking involved. There is no way to know how many of your calories are being stored as fat at any time. And as you calorie restrict, your metabolism will slow down and continue to do so for a very long time which only leads to more weight problems going forward. There is nothing in our body that registers calories and has an optimal plan for there usage. It only knows how to use food as energy, store it as fat, and block access to that fat storage, as an emergency reserve, as long as more food is coming in.

You can restrict calories and work your ass off for temporary gains. Or you can accommodate the way your body was designed to work and never worry about it again. When you calorie restrict, you starve yourself forcing your body to compensate and make less food go further. When you fast for long periods, even after taking in as much as you need to eat to be satiated for the day, you're now letting the body do the thing it was meant to do. You're not starving yourself but at the same time you're allowing the body to switch the source of energy from sugar to fat. This is why it stores the fat in the first place. You certainly weren't meant to hold on to that extra fat stored for a lifetime. The body also uses this fasting time to repair and clean itself out in order to stay as optimal as possible. The magic is not in the Keto diet itself. The magic is in the fasting that the Keto diet mimics and further amplifies. I'll briefly explain the proven science behind Intermittent Fasting.

As long as there is food coming in, insulin will be raised and when it is it blocks all access to stored fat. At ~ 12 hours after the last food consumed, the blood glucose and glycogen levels have dropped back down and the body prepares to burn fat since there is no more sugar coming in. With the different IF protocols being 16/8, 18/6, 20/4 and OMAD, you set yourself up to take advantage of what the body reliably does naturally. Still, at the 12 hour mark there is no benefit to be had. The process has just begun and insulin is no longer in the way of accessing the stored fat. This is why IF waits for, at least, the 16 hour mark when ketones are in play and still on the rise and will continue to be. The longer one goes without eating, the longer ketones will be burned as a superior source of energy while you, not only, give yourself hours of easy fat burning but allow for autoph.agy as well. This is the natural way the body was made to both regulate weight and overall health.

 

[TL1961]

Glad it worked for you. Realize that you are suited for that type of eating. A lot of people are not. Also realize that if you increased your calories to 5,000 a day, eating the exact same types of food, and not increasing your exercising, you would get fat really quick. That right there proves that calories matter buddy.

Well, that is simply saying, if you eat two and a half times the recommended amount, you'll gain weight.

How does that prove a diet is flawed?

 

[nvanprooyen]

Here's my biggest problem with keto personally speaking. I tried it briefly some years back, and felt like absolute dog shit carb restricted when trying to get through my workouts. Really low energy. Maybe that's something you can break through, but it sucked ass and my workouts definitely suffered. Just didn't have anything in the tank.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

Just exercise and don't eat like a fat Special person and you'll be fine. It's really that simple.

Also to every keto person who tries to tell you carbs are the devil: you're wrong.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

Also Spartan, if you're losing weight you're literally in a calorie deficit. There's no arguing that. You admitted to not counting calories so how would you even know. You're in a deficit and you dont even know it if you're losing weight.

 

[TL1961]

I will chime in on the Keto and IF, much of which I have said before.

When I previously tried low carb diets - with much success - I ate fatty meats more than I felt I should, but I was not punishing myself, and was having good results, and therefore made few changes. I always figured more chicken instead of hamburger or smoked sausage, would naturally speed up the weight loss, as I would be consuming fewer calories. But I lost, and I lost rather quickly.

Atkins was the craze, and then South Beach. I was simply watching carbs, and not adhering closely to what they said. I just knew cutting carbs worked. I was essentially Keto before Keto was cool.

What I did not do, was the Intermittent Fasting. I was hearing the "eat often, and get the metabolism sped up", so I followed that for the most part. When I read Spartan and others discussing IF as an additional benefit to Keto, my first thought was "no thanks", as that felt like punishment and would be unsustainable.

However, without really trying to force IF, I find myself doing that, as I am simply not hungry in the mornings. So unless I eat late at night, I am doing 18/6 IF. (Or shall we call it 17/7?)

I try to eat between noon and 6 PM. Noon is much later than I am accustomed to, but has happened not due to forcing myself, but simply by waiting until I am hungry. I am not really hungry again before 6, but don't want to eat later, so I watch things then. But that simply means dinner portions are down.

IF is not something I feel I am trying to commit to for life, but is simply coming naturally, as the body uses stored fat, presumably. (As explained here previously.)

So far, so good. I lost 50+ in 2009, added back a little over 5 years, and lost that and more in 2014. The past few years with travel and such, I have added way too much, and am working on getting back to 2014 levels. With no suffering or starving myself (I have had many nights of too many beers with some events that have been happening, and I need to avoid those) I have lost approximately 25 since the first of the year.

If Jillian Michaels wants to say I am on a fad diet that won't work, that's OK with me. It is working. My niece's husband lost 50+ before Christmas, and said he didn't "suffer", and my niece has lost quite a bit as well. They inspired me to get my sorry ass back on low carb, and it works. Without feeling I am going without. The craving for sweets and carbs just goes away.

So for anyone criticizing....fine. But it works for me, and many others.

 

[TL1961]

Also Spartan, if you're losing weight you're literally in a calorie deficit. There's no arguing that. You admitted to not counting calories so how would you even know. You're in a deficit and you dont even know it if you're losing weight.

What difference does that make? What is your point?

It seems this "calorie deficit" comment has been made several times here, just to get someone to admit they are. But the point all along has been that the success is from WHAT you eat, and how many carbs versus eating carbs and "counting calories". It works. Well. why are people trying to deny it? It's like we're dealing with "The Carb Council", and they're afraid of losing sales.

What do people have to gain by getting into semantics arguments? Go eat bread and pasta, and less red meat and see f you have the same results. I am betting against it.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Well, that is simply saying, if you eat two and a half times the recommended amount, you'll gain weight.

How does that prove a diet is flawed?

If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It's not complicated.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Just exercise and don't eat like a fat Special person and you'll be fine. It's really that simple.

Also to every keto person who tries to tell you carbs are the devil: you're wrong.

Weight control is 90% what you eat and how you eat. People have been pushing the same nonsense you state and failed time and again. The rhetoric has become like propaganda that never ends despite a near 100% failure rate.

Also Spartan, if you're losing weight you're literally in a calorie deficit. There's no arguing that. You admitted to not counting calories so how would you even know. You're in a deficit and you dont even know it if you're losing weight.

Again, the body doesn't register calories or have a perfect plan for there distribution. It was quite simply designed to feast and fast and does that job reliably well.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It's not complicated.

That's the thinking that made the world fat. Thanks for the input.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I will chime in on the Keto and IF, much of which I have said before.

When I previously tried low carb diets - with much success - I ate fatty meats more than I felt I should, but I was not punishing myself, and was having good results, and therefore made few changes. I always figured more chicken instead of hamburger or smoked sausage, would naturally speed up the weight loss, as I would be consuming fewer calories. But I lost, and I lost rather quickly.

Atkins was the craze, and then South Beach. I was simply watching carbs, and not adhering closely to what they said. I just knew cutting carbs worked. I was essentially Keto before Keto was cool.

What I did not do, was the Intermittent Fasting. I was hearing the "eat often, and get the metabolism sped up", so I followed that for the most part. When I read Spartan and others discussing IF as an additional benefit to Keto, my first thought was "no thanks", as that felt like punishment and would be unsustainable.

However, without really trying to force IF, I find myself doing that, as I am simply not hungry in the mornings. So unless I eat late at night, I am doing 18/6 IF. (Or shall we call it 17/7?)

I try to eat between noon and 6 PM. Noon is much later than I am accustomed to, but has happened not due to forcing myself, but simply by waiting until I am hungry. I am not really hungry again before 6, but don't want to eat later, so I watch things then. But that simply means dinner portions are down.

IF is not something I feel I am trying to commit to for life, but is simply coming naturally, as the body uses stored fat, presumably. (As explained here previously.)

So far, so good. I lost 50+ in 2009, added back a little over 5 years, and lost that and more in 2014. The past few years with travel and such, I have added way too much, and am working on getting back to 2014 levels. With no suffering or starving myself (I have had many nights of too many beers with some events that have been happening, and I need to avoid those) I have lost approximately 25 since the first of the year.

If Jillian Michaels wants to say I am on a fad diet that won't work, that's OK with me. It is working. My niece's husband lost 50+ before Christmas, and said he didn't "suffer", and my niece has lost quite a bit as well. They inspired me to get my sorry ass back on low carb, and it works. Without feeling I am going without. The craving for sweets and carbs just goes away.

So for anyone criticizing....fine. But it works for me, and many others.

Yeah, it works. Wouldn't it be nice though to have a brand new lifestyle that incorporates foods you can stick to eating "even when traveling" so you can be at the proper weight year round? Wouldn't you consider that "working better"?

 

[didshereallysaythat]

That's the thinking that made the world fat. Thanks for the input.

No it's not. People not working out and or eating terrible made them fat. Stop with the excuses.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

Weight control is 90% what you eat and how you eat. People have been pushing the same nonsense you state and failed time and again. The rhetoric has become like propaganda that never ends despite a near 100% failure rate.

Again, the body doesn't register calories or have a perfect plan for there distribution. It was quite simply designed to feast and fast and does that job reliably well.

But I've literally ate a **** ton of carbs while staying under a certain amount of calories and lost weight. It works. Eating less than your body needs = weight loss. It's literal science.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

Also, the reason people weren't as obese back in the day is because they were poor as **** lmao. They couldn't afford to eat or have easy access to food like we do today.

Just like the Spartans IRL weren't nearly as jacked as portrayed. Their diet back then wouldn't have made it possible to be that jacked.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Why anybody would find the need for 5,000 calories, IDK. Unless you have a diet that's 100% comfort foods with no nutritional value that is not satiating you at all. Sounds like you expect to eat til you vomit and then eat some more.

Yes, nearly everybody is suited for the type of eating I mentioned cause all our bodies were meant to work in that fashion. Under normal circumstances, it's not your body that fails you. It's you who fail your body.

Obesity hasn't been a problem for very long. When you look at the history of man, it's only been a problem very recently, a mere minute fraction of our existence. Do you think people hundreds of years ago felt the pressing need to get to the gym to keep the weight off? Of course not. Didn't exactly drive around everywhere and sit at desks or in front of a TV or computer all day either. So, yes, something to be said about being more active but if you understand the true concept of how body weight is regulated you certainly don't need to count calories or sweat your ass off in a gym to maintain an optimal weight. The calories in/calories out thing is dogmatic idiocy. There is proof all around us that it does not work. That's only because it's not the way the body was designed to work.

When following the dogmatic calories in/calorie out thinking, there's really no thinking involved. There is no way to know how many of your calories are being stored as fat at any time. And as you calorie restrict, your metabolism will slow down and continue to do so for a very long time which only leads to more weight problems going forward. There is nothing in our body that registers calories and has an optimal plan for there usage. It only knows how to use food as energy, store it as fat, and block access to that fat storage, as an emergency reserve, as long as more food is coming in.

You can restrict calories and work your ass off for temporary gains. Or you can accommodate the way your body was designed to work and never worry about it again. When you calorie restrict, you starve yourself forcing your body to compensate and make less food go further. When you fast for long periods, even after taking in as much as you need to eat to be satiated for the day, you're now letting the body do the thing it was meant to do. You're not starving yourself but at the same time you're allowing the body to switch the source of energy from sugar to fat. This is why it stores the fat in the first place. You certainly weren't meant to hold on to that extra fat stored for a lifetime. The body also uses this fasting time to repair and clean itself out in order to stay as optimal as possible. The magic is not in the Keto diet itself. The magic is in the fasting that the Keto diet mimics and further amplifies. I'll briefly explain the proven science behind Intermittent Fasting.

As long as there is food coming in, insulin will be raised and when it is it blocks all access to stored fat. At ~ 12 hours after the last food consumed, the blood glucose and glycogen levels have dropped back down and the body prepares to burn fat since there is no more sugar coming in. With the different IF protocols being 16/8, 18/6, 20/4 and OMAD, you set yourself up to take advantage of what the body reliably does naturally. Still, at the 12 hour mark there is no benefit to be had. The process has just begun and insulin is no longer in the way of accessing the stored fat. This is why IF waits for, at least, the 16 hour mark when ketones are in play and still on the rise and will continue to be. The longer one goes without eating, the longer ketones will be burned as a superior source of energy while you, not only, give yourself hours of easy fat burning but allow for autoph.agy as well. This is the natural way the body was made to both regulate weight and overall health.

How do you explain people who change their lifestyle and eat 40-50% carbs and control their calories to what they believe to be a deficit. Then they lose weight and get lean. Then they move their calories to maintenance and stay lean for years this way. All while continuing to eat things like potatoes, rice, oatmeal, etc?