Kobe vs. MJ for the LAST TIME ALREADY!

[JayJohnstone]

houheffna wrote:

I followed the Jordan Bulls religiously, read all the books and have never seen or heard anything like that.

In that clip, PJax said that MJ had "the million dollar hands" and talks about all the things this allows MJ to do that Kobe can't with a basketball. Including "picking the basketball off the floor". That's the closest he comes to discussing ball-handling and it's in MJ's favor. It's a huge stretch to take something you think you heard 10 years ago and then assume that PJax is still speaking to this in that clip IMHO.

He was talking about Jordan's hands in terms of size...not in terms of ballhandling. Phil was talking about the size of Jordan's hands and how it was an asset in his palming the ball. Kobe in comparison has small hands. If hand size dictated ballhandling, power forwards and centers would bring the ball up more often.

I watched Jordan religiously too and I have seen plenty of Kobe...I see what Phil was talking about and I agree with Phil.

But Pjax didn't say it's was all about hand size. PJax mentioned like 5 things that MJ's hands allowed him to do that Kobe can't. How is "picking the ball up off the dribble" the same as "palming the ball"?

Edit: fixed quote to ""picking the ball up off the dribble"

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

According to the story Jordan hit Rose on the back of the neck, which led to Rose's teeth hitting each other and chipping one of them. I thought Jordan hit Rose in the mouth the way Hou made it sound. And this was in MJ's Wiz days, Rose was on the Bulls.

Here's the story.

Hou made it sound like what it was...you make it sound like an accident. It is what it is...

Since I don't remember the play, like I've stated several times, I was going based on your description.

Your description was as follows:
"Nobody remembers him BLATANTLY, OBVIOUSLY, PURPOSELY (and admitting it after the game) knocking Jalen Rose's tooth out and not getting a flagrant foul?"

Based on your description one would assume that MJ hit Rose in the mouth. Typically when one gets a tooth knocked out it's a result of being hit in the mouth.

But after reading the story we now know that Jordan hit Rose on the back of the neck. So what I said was correct that Jordan's intention wasn't to knock out his tooth. His intention was to hit him on the back of the neck.

I know your the official Michael Jordan watchdog, but gotta get the facts straight since you hold us Jordan lovers to the same standard.

 

[houheffna]

Since I don't remember the play, like I've stated several times, I was going based on your description.

Your description was as follows:
"Nobody remembers him BLATANTLY, OBVIOUSLY, PURPOSELY (and admitting it after the game) knocking Jalen Rose's tooth out and not getting a flagrant foul?"

Based on your description one would assume that MJ hit Rose in the mouth. Typically when one gets a tooth knocked out it's a result of being hit in the mouth.

But after reading the story we now know that Jordan hit Rose on the back of the neck. So what I said was correct that Jordan's intention wasn't to knock out his tooth. His intention was to hit him on the back of the neck.

I know your the official Michael Jordan watchdog, but gotta get the facts straight since you hold us Jordan lovers to the same standard.

His intent was to hit and hurt him.......whatever damage comes of that lies with Jordan.

Friend of mine just asked me why would I dare make an anti-Jordan argument in Chicago whether right or wrong...I would hope it wouldn't be like that, then I read "us Jordan lovers", and I infer that you are saying I am the opposite...wow. Maybe you are right. He was a great player, the greatest...but not flawless. I refuse as a grown man to act as if everything he does is right when I wouldn't feel the same if another human being did some of the same things. I worship no one. I rest easy knowing that.

I am not an official watchdog for anybody...just a realist who tends to challenge popular opinions which usually are myths. And on this forum more than anywhere, am vilified for it. I never called Jordan dirty, he knew all of the tricks...some the refs didn't see, some the refs saw and ignored.

 

[houheffna]

But Pjax didn't say it's was all about hand size. PJax mentioned like 5 things that MJ's hands allowed him to do that Kobe can't. How is "picking the ball up off the dribble" the same as "palming the ball"?

It is the same if you have hands big enough...if you dribble the ball and drive to the basket, how do you get the ball to the basket? You noticed that Phil agreed with Mychal Thompson's assesments...

I posted a more detailed video on this forum months ago...can't find where I posted it now (forum needs a search function) and can't find it on youtube anymore. Phil gets more in depth about who is better at what...now he doesn't do that anymore because he hates the question...he probably gets the same negative responses in certain places as I get...I can name dozens of players who had better handles, but they are not as good as Jordan.

I would love to know what you think Phil means when he says Kobe has a better skillset?

 

[JayJohnstone]

houheffna wrote:

You noticed that Phil agreed with Mychal Thompson's assesments...

I would love to know what you think Phil means when he says Kobe has a better skillset?

First, Phil is an agreeable guy.

One possibility is that PJax is basically stating that yea, you could make the case about better skills. Kobe may have had better outside shooting. Kobe has some very good technique. And Kobe needed this to be almost as good as prime time MJ because Kobe isn't as strong or as athletic

Another possibility is Kobe has all of these unmentioned skills that are far superior to MJ in addition to long distance shooting.

Seems like this video may be a Rorschach test for what one wants to believe.

 

[houheffna]

First, Phil is an agreeable guy.

One possibility is that PJax is basically stating that yea, you could make the case about better skills. Kobe may have had better outside shooting. Kobe has some very good technique. And Kobe needed this to be almost as good as prime time MJ because Kobe isn't as strong or as athletic

Another possibility is Kobe has all of these unmentioned skills that are far superior to MJ in addition to long distance shooting.

Seems like this video may be a Rorschach test for what one wants to believe.

He has actually said those things on several occasions to the media...my only issue is not finding the other video or a link to it (though I doubt if its on youtube anymore). But I have heard others echo what Jackson said, even here in Chicago. Nothing new really, this argument has been out there for over 5, 6 years now.

What has spurred it on is the fact that Kobe patterned his game after MJ (which I couldn't stand) and has pretty much mastered MJ's game from an athletic standpoint down to celebratory actions on the court. On this forum I asked people "what could Jordan do on the court that Kobe can't do?" No one can give a definitive answer...

 

[JayJohnstone]

houheffna wrote:
On this forum I asked people "what could Jordan do on the court that Kobe can't do?" No one can give a definitive answer...

It's a lot more about consistency of excellence than being about to replicate most of the moves. Hell...LaBradford Smith and Harold Minor had a lot of the moves.

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

Since I don't remember the play, like I've stated several times, I was going based on your description.

Your description was as follows:
"Nobody remembers him BLATANTLY, OBVIOUSLY, PURPOSELY (and admitting it after the game) knocking Jalen Rose's tooth out and not getting a flagrant foul?"

Based on your description one would assume that MJ hit Rose in the mouth. Typically when one gets a tooth knocked out it's a result of being hit in the mouth.

But after reading the story we now know that Jordan hit Rose on the back of the neck. So what I said was correct that Jordan's intention wasn't to knock out his tooth. His intention was to hit him on the back of the neck.

I know your the official Michael Jordan watchdog, but gotta get the facts straight since you hold us Jordan lovers to the same standard.

His intent was to hit and hurt him.......whatever damage comes of that lies with Jordan.

Friend of mine just asked me why would I dare make an anti-Jordan argument in Chicago whether right or wrong...I would hope it wouldn't be like that, then I read "us Jordan lovers", and I infer that you are saying I am the opposite...wow. Maybe you are right. He was a great player, the greatest...but not flawless. I refuse as a grown man to act as if everything he does is right when I wouldn't feel the same if another human being did some of the same things. I worship no one. I rest easy knowing that.

I am not an official watchdog for anybody...just a realist who tends to challenge popular opinions which usually are myths. And on this forum more than anywhere, am vilified for it. I never called Jordan dirty, he knew all of the tricks...some the refs didn't see, some the refs saw and ignored.

You don't call Jordan dirty, but your comments would make one think that Jordan intentionally hit Rose in the mouth. You did use the words BLATANTLY, OBVIOUSLY, PURPOSELY in all caps. Those words would describe the actions of a dirty player. But that wasn't the case.

"Us Jordan lovers." I said that because you always are quick to point out Jordan's flaws. Why? Because you seem to think that us on this forum think Jordan can do no wrong. We all admit that he can, we all know he can. Yet you continue to bring things up like an elbow from 7 years ago. You just had to throw that in there to let all of us "Jordan lovers" know that he ain't perfect. Which we know and have stated several times.

Please spare me with the "grown man" stuff. You keep saying that when we get in these Jordan debates. No one worships Jordan, so stop making up stuff to try and make a point.

I'm a grown man too, with a job, two kids and bills. I rest easy as well. What's your point exactly?

Just like you will continue to be the Jordan watchdog to let us know when he does something bad, I'll be the one to call out people when they look for any little thing to rip the man. Like the overblown reaction to his HOF speech.

Or when he went to Atlantic City the night before Game 2 in 1993 against the Knicks. Oh my God Jordan was out until 4 am the night before Game 2 at 7pm the next night. Apparently Jordan needs 16 hours of sleep to be productive? But that's an example of how people react to meaningless stories when they can't wait to nail someone. The media loves to build guys up to tear them down. That's what I have a problem with. We see it with Tiger Woods. All these stories and fellow golfers commenting about his "act" or "phoniness", why didn't people have the balls to rip Tiger Woods before he drove his car into a fire hydrant?

But the original point was you tried to make it seem like Jordan hit Rose in the mouth. That wasn't the case. You said that you challenge popular opinion. Well most times popular opinion is right. That's why it's popular.
But what do you think the popular opinion of Jordan is on this forum? And what do you disagree with?

 

[fola]

houheffna wrote:

He was a great player, the greatest...but not flawless. I refuse as a grown man to act as if everything he does is right when I wouldn't feel the same if another human being did some of the same things. I worship no one. I rest easy knowing that.

I don't think you've ever said anything--here--that I agree with more. The lengths to which people go to deify such a flawed individual are down right mind boggling (and disappointing) to me. I guess it stems from many/most people being bulls fans because of MJ and not vice versa. Oh well...

 

[houheffna]

Please spare me with the "grown man" stuff. You keep saying that when we get in these Jordan debates. No one worships Jordan, so stop making up stuff to try and make a point.

I'm a grown man too, with a job, two kids and bills. I rest easy as well. What's your point exactly?

Dude...you don't see on these forums where I am attacked at times for voicing my opinions on things like this? If you took it to heart...oh well, if the shoe fits...but I don't know why you would think that was directed towards you alone. If your reaction to Jordan is different then your reaction to another person because Jordan is the "greatest ever"...shame on you. That is what that meant. He may get certain biased treatment because of his stature in the sport, but I give him no moral code different from any other player or human being. As a kid, he could do no wrong in my eyes, I am grown now and I don't feel that way. If Krause was to give a venomous, vengeful at times HOF speech like Jordan did, would you have enjoyed it as much? I seriously doubt it. Would I have enjoyed it? No. I would have said the same thing about Krause I have said about Jordan...worst HOF speech from the point of intent I have ever heard. So me saying I am a grown man could be me examining myself...and saying that there is no excuse to disrespect management unnecessarily, players unnecessarily...anyone no matter who you are. I think he was a great player...but he has some serious issues as a human being. No different from most, I just refuse to excuse his actions because of his status.

"Us Jordan lovers." I said that because you always are quick to point out Jordan's flaws. Why? Because you seem to think that us on this forum think Jordan can do no wrong. We all admit that he can, we all know he can. Yet you continue to bring things up like an elbow from 7 years ago. You just had to throw that in there to let all of us "Jordan lovers" know that he ain't perfect. Which we know and have stated several times.

Read the forum man! I brought it up because I was asked to! Frank asked for an example, I gave it...your behavior is proving my point. Say something about Jordan and people want to burn you at the stake...without even knowing if there is provocation or not for the statement. I don't remember ever reading about that elbow...even if I did, the example was brought up in conversation and was left at that. I have better things to do then hate on Jordan...I just state what I see as the truth.

But the original point was you tried to make it seem like Jordan hit Rose in the mouth. That wasn't the case. You said that you challenge popular opinion. Well most times popular opinion is right. That's why it's popular.
But what do you think the popular opinion of Jordan is on this forum? And what do you disagree with?

I tried to make it seem that Jordan did something intentional and wreck less and that was the result.

But then again Rodman didn't mean to bust Pippen's chin up, just meant to push him, to send a message. So Rodman is not responsible for that cut on Pip's face. If you can apply that argument to Rodman, then fine, apply it to Jordan. I think Rodman and Jordan were wrong for what they did, they were both unnecessary and excessive...again, that is my thinking.

 

[Kush77]

I'm not gonna break up the quotes because I don't know how to do it. I usually mess that up.

I didn't read every post in the forum. Frank asked you for an example of Jordan doing something dirty or unsportsmanlike. And you gave him an example. But when you gave him the example you made it seem like Jordan busted Rose in the mouth. That wasn't the case.

You exaggerated what Jordan did to make your point. That's what I'm saying.

And it has nothing to do with hero worship or thinking another person is perfect. Funny how you gloss over my example of MJ intentionally bouncing the ball of Mark Jackson's head in a 1998 regular season game. See, I can admit Jordan does bad things.

The whole I'm a grown man thing I don't get. I don't let people slid on things. And I've made this point with you before. This is basketball, entertainment. Little squabbles between millionaires (Jordan and Krause), I don't take this seriously. I have strong opinions on them, like the overblown reaction to his speech. But my thoughts about what's right and wrong isn't calibrated by my opinions on sports. We can talk politics sometime and you'll know where I stand on right and wrong.

Jordan can do wrong. I've said it and I'm sure most of the Jordan lovers have said it to. So I really don't need to say it anymore.

My problem is with the build you up tear you down media. They cover for a guy when it's benefits them and then take their shots when everyone else does. Kinda like the Tiger Woods situation now.

As for the Rodman/Pippen thing. I would say the Rodman push was unprovoked. From what I read in the story Rose and Jordan were going at it. I assume Rose gave Jordan a shot as well.

I don't remember the play but I would assume Jordan just didn't hit Rose for talking trash. Jordan talked trash with lots of players and vice versa. So I can't imagine Rose said "hey, I'm gonna hit the next shot in your face" the Jordan hits him on the back of the neck.

My point is there was back and forth most likely with Rose/Jordan. While Scottie Pippen was minding his own business while the Bulls were winning big and Rodman did that out of frustration from losing.

Both wrong.

Let's get back on the point here. You're trying to change the argument. My point is you made it sound like Jordan hit Rose intentionally in the mouth. He hit him on the back of the neck. Doesn't mean hitting people on the back of the neck is right, but I was just letting you know that you made it sound a lot worse than it really was.

And the reason you wanted to make it sound worse than it really was (because you used three words in all caps) is because you feel Jordan gets a free pass and you feel the need to call him out. I know you were asked by Frank for an example, but you did exaggerate it.

As for other forums where you get ripped, I can't speak on that. This is the only forum where I post about the Bulls. But you know I welcome your differing opinion. Hell, if we agreed this forum would have a lot less posts.

 

[houheffna]

Breaking up quotes takes lots of cutting and pasting... take it from a master of plagiarism...

Why do you think Jordan did what he did? Out of frustration? He pretty much admitted that. And it was wrong. Just as wrong as what Rodman did. It was excessive, it was unnecessary and he should have had a fragrant called against him for it. That is all...the two are very comparable. There being back and forth between them doesn't justify it...Jordan mastered back and forth. If there was something done in a previous game or whenever, it still doesn't matter. He never got a fragrant called against him...he got away with it.

I think right and wrong is easily translatable to sports conversation...while we are entertained, these are people's jobs and lives. Moral values are very important in sports...look at the Tiger Woods situation, the Mike Leach situation at Texas A&M...these situations mirror situations I have faced in everyday life...i don't text pornstars for rendezvous but you get the picture. And yes in politics, it is easy for people to hold double standards for certain politicians and/or movements because of their passion for them. Right and wrong somehow gets blurred. To say that the second greatest shooting guard ever has some skills better than Jordan is like I am burning churches down...people want to douse me with holy water...

I don't think you've ever said anything--here--that I agree with more. The lengths to which people go to deify such a flawed individual are down right mind boggling (and disappointing) to me. I guess it stems from many/most people being bulls fans because of MJ and not vice versa. Oh well...

Maybe that's it...but I am a Bulls fan first and foremost. If MJ is on the other side, I hope he misses every shot and has a miserable night. Nothing personal...Its about the Chicago Bulls. That is why I don't understand how anyone can root against the Bulls when facing other teams or players...it makes no sense to me. I gamble but have never gambled against them, I root for them to win every game, hit every shot. Love the players, yet its about winning and I am critical of them all...fair but critical.

 

[jsain360]

Quite frankly, the Jordan v. Kobe argument is not an argument, Jordan is a much better player than Kobe, not matter how you want to break it down, lets end this madness, this is a basketball abomination to have this debate.

 

[houheffna]

They say some of the same in LA...but the feelings are opposite. I don't think anyone here thinks Kobe is a better player...

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

Why do you think Jordan did what he did? Out of frustration? He pretty much admitted that. And it was wrong. Just as wrong as what Rodman did. It was excessive, it was unnecessary and he should have had a fragrant called against him for it. That is all...the two are very comparable. There being back and forth between them doesn't justify it...Jordan mastered back and forth. If there was something done in a previous game or whenever, it still doesn't matter. He never got a fragrant called against him...he got away with it.

I think right and wrong is easily translatable to sports conversation...while we are entertained, these are people's jobs and lives. Moral values are very important in sports...look at the Tiger Woods situation, the Mike Leach situation at Texas A&M...these situations mirror situations I have faced in everyday life...i don't text pornstars for rendezvous but you get the picture. And yes in politics, it is easy for people to hold double standards for certain politicians and/or movements because of their passion for them. Right and wrong somehow gets blurred. To say that the second greatest shooting guard ever has some skills better than Jordan is like I am burning churches down...people want to douse me with holy water...

The Mike Leach and Tiger Woods situations are different from the Jordan example we've been using. Jordan elbowing Rose was part of an in-game thing. It's apples and oranges.

Mistreating a player with a concussion and cheating on your wife is a bit different then elbowing a player during an in-game situation. Physical play and even fights are part of sports.

What's right and wrong? If we get into that then I guess every NHL player that has gotten into a fight should have charges pressed against them?

Jordan and Rosman's situations could be different (I didn't see the Jordan play so I can't say for sure). But Scottie Pippen's foul was unprovoked. The Jalen Rose foul probably wasn't unprovoked. I'm sure Rose had some words or gave a shove to Jordan. I watched Jordan for 15 years, it isn't his style just to take a cheap shot for no reason. There was something going on.

Lets go back to our school days. When i was in 7th grade there was a kid that was giving me a hard time. I told him that if you say one more thing to me I'm gonna do something about it. He kept running his mouth so in the middle of class I got up, walked to his desk and slammed his head off the desk. Was I wrong? Yes. Was I provoked? Yes.

Now if that same kid was just minding his own business and I just got up and smacked his head of the desk for no reason, then I'm 100% in the wrong.

The first example I compare to the Jordan/Rose situation, the second is more like the Rodman situation. While both are wrong, we need to scratch the surface to see that there are differences. We're just throwing a big blanket over it saying, well it's wrong, it's wrong. Yes it's wrong, but lets dig a little deeper and break it down. Then we'll see a difference.

Let's look at someone who abuses drugs. Technically it's his fault that he did drugs. So we can just look at it that way, say he's wrong and he deserves what he gets. That's one way to look at it. But if we dig deeper let's look at why he did drugs? Maybe that person grew up with parents who abused and he grew up watching it and living in that culture. I personally would have more sypathy for the kid that was raised in that environment as opposed to the person who just started doing it because they were looking for a good time.

Technically doing drugs is illegal and we can make the blanket statement that they're wrong, bottom line. Or we can, again, dig deeper and look at it a different way.

I know you listen to a lot of Boers and Bernstein, and they both have this holier-than-thou approach to their talk show. More Bernstein than Boers. But I heard them talk about the Tiger situation and they really go overboard. I guess B&B are perfect people and never have done anything wrong in their lives? Please.

I know your opinion is your own because we've talked several times. But the way you are talking about this right and wrong issue reminds me of B&B a bit.

 

[Kush77]

fola wrote:

houheffna wrote:

He was a great player, the greatest...but not flawless. I refuse as a grown man to act as if everything he does is right when I wouldn't feel the same if another human being did some of the same things. I worship no one. I rest easy knowing that.

I don't think you've ever said anything--here--that I agree with more. The lengths to which people go to deify such a flawed individual are down right mind boggling (and disappointing) to me. I guess it stems from many/most people being bulls fans because of MJ and not vice versa. Oh well...

"Such a flawed individual." You say that as if he's a child abuser or something.

The word flawed is a bit strong. Or the phrase, "such a flawed." I would say he's human. He made mistakes (like cheating on his wife) other than that what has he done that would make us think he's so bad? His HOF speech?

All this talk about MJ, and him as a person has started mainly because of his HOF speech. I don't think it was bad and I think the media reaction was way overblown.

So I will defend MJ when it comes to that speech. And if people view me as a Jordan defender, then I'm guilty as charged. Because the speech wasn't bad.

Jordan has done a lot of good things as well. But that all seems to be lost for some reason because certain folks in the media want to make it their cause to prove that Jordan can make mistakes.

Who doesn't know this? That's my question. Who are these people that think Jordan is this perfect person that does no wrong? Wasn't that image shattered 17 years ago with "The Jordan Rules" book?

Some might say me, but I can back up what I say. I'm not blindly making claims that I can't back up.

 

[houheffna]

Well, I am a huge Terry Boers fan, have been for over 20 years...but I disagree with them on quite a bit. I like Mike North too, I agree with him on almost nothing (except Ben Gordon, we agree a bit on that one). Actually Bernstein agrees with me in comparing Kobe and Jordan's games, I thought it was me, Phil and a bunch of Lakers fans.

People on this forum deride Lebron, Kobe...whoever. I enjoy those guys although I have not really ever rooted for Kobe a day in my life. I have been called a f------ idiot because I said Lebron could be the best ever.

I can only speak for me. Nothing holier than thou about me...been out of church for a few years now...don't really like church folk...they think they are holier than thou.

I do believe in right and wrong. And calling it as it is. If the Jordan thing was an accident...it wouldn't be discussed. It wasn't, it was excessive and fragrant by the NBA rule book. As was Rodman, doesn't matter if there was provocation or not. Comparing Tiger and Leach to Jordan is fair because they make mistakes and they are wrong for those mistakes. The degree of the mistake is what you are looking at...I am saying they are all wrong in their actions. People make excuses for them...but they are wrong.

When it comes to morals and values...I don't care if you are on the home team or not. My friends will tell you that I am that way with them, as I am with myself. If Boers and Bernstein live by and raise their children by the moral code they speak of...good for them. Doesn't mean they don't do wrong, it means they are conscious or right and wrong and are at least willing to abide by it and hold others accountable. I have heard what they said about Chris Henry too. A bit over the top? Maybe...but at least they are consistent.

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

Well, I am a huge Terry Boers fan, have been for over 20 years...but I disagree with them on quite a bit. I like Mike North too, I agree with him on almost nothing (except Ben Gordon, we agree a bit on that one). Actually Bernstein agrees with me in comparing Kobe and Jordan's games, I thought it was me, Phil and a bunch of Lakers fans.

People on this forum deride Lebron, Kobe...whoever. I enjoy those guys although I have not really ever rooted for Kobe a day in my life. I have been called a f------ idiot because I said Lebron could be the best ever.

I can only speak for me. Nothing holier than thou about me...been out of church for a few years now...don't really like church folk...they think they are holier than thou.

I do believe in right and wrong. And calling it as it is. If the Jordan thing was an accident...it wouldn't be discussed. It wasn't, it was excessive and fragrant by the NBA rule book. As was Rodman, doesn't matter if there was provocation or not. Comparing Tiger and Leach to Jordan is fair because they make mistakes and they are wrong for those mistakes. The degree of the mistake is what you are looking at...I am saying they are all wrong in their actions. People make excuses for them...but they are wrong.

When it comes to morals and values...I don't care if you are on the home team or not. My friends will tell you that I am that way with them, as I am with myself. If Boers and Bernstein live by and raise their children by the moral code they speak of...good for them. Doesn't mean they don't do wrong, it means they are conscious or right and wrong and are at least willing to abide by it and hold others accountable. I have heard what they said about Chris Henry too. A bit over the top? Maybe...but at least they are consistent.

Couldn't agree with you more on church people but I won't get into that here.

But if you want to blanket what's right and wrong then Jordan's elbow is the same as Tiger and Leach.

But let's rank these on bad scale shall we.

-Jordan elbowing Rose on the back of the neck

-Tiger Woods cheating on his wife with 16 different women

-Mike Leach mistreating a player with a concussion.

If we took a poll of 1000 people I would be wiling to bet my house that Jordan's elbow would rank third on this list of wrongdoings.

Just saying things are wrong and grouping it in with far worse transgressions doesn't make sense to me.

Going back to a school fight example. If my son gets into a fight at school, I want to know why. And how I react to it will depend on the reason. Did my son just decide to beat up a kid for no reason, was he provoked or was he defending himself. We gotta to scratch the surface on things.

If we go based on this "right and wrong" logic then all I need to hear is - my son got into a fight at school, therefore he's wrong and will be punished regardless of the situation because fighting is wrong. That makes no sense.

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

If Boers and Bernstein live by and raise their children by the moral code they speak of...good for them. Doesn't mean they don't do wrong, it means they are conscious or right and wrong and are at least willing to abide by it and hold others accountable. I have heard what they said about Chris Henry too. A bit over the top? Maybe...but at least they are consistent.

That's the thing, we don't know if they abide by the rules they preach on the air.

They just talk a good game. That's all we know.

 

[houheffna]

Jordan did it because he was talking trash man...a lot of trash talking was going on during the game and Jordan got tired of it. If he got elbowed so hard in the neck that his teeth chipped up every time he talked trash, he would be wearing dentures right now...