Luol Deng or Toni Kukoc who was better?

Luol Deng or Toni Kukoc?


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RamiTheBullsFan

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Um, that Bulls team he averaged 7 rebounds on was terrible. That's why he averaged 7 rebounds... while that entire team was getting destroyed on the glass.

And Bosh is way better than Kukoc.
 

houheffna

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[uote=houheffna;322979]Is Jordan a better scorer because that was his "roll" or because he was more skilled at putting the ball in the basket? That Pippen stuff has you over-simplifying the game too much.

Why are you bringing up defense as if Kukoc could play defense? That was a weakness in his game! Kukoc couldn't play defense any better than Boozer can.

And to all of a sudden think Kukoc could just take on the "roll" and dominate on the boards is just plain silly to me. You said look at the numbers. I did, and you are wrong...very wrong. Kukoc would have gotten ate up by Bosh the same way Boozer did and wouldn't have out-rebounded Bosh the way Boozer did.


I don't think so...what makes you think Bosh isn't limber enough to stay with Kukoc? Kukoc didn't have blinding speed...again, you overrate Kukoc, talking about him being better than guys who are 5x allstars. That's crazy talk.

And pray tell what would Bosh do to Kukoc? You talk about Kukoc as if he's....Lebron, and that's hilarious. Kukoc could only go to his left and he wasn't the fastest gun in the west either. I don't think so...
 

97Bulls

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I don't think so...what makes you think Bosh isn't limber enough to stay with Kukoc? Kukoc didn't have blinding speed...again, you overrate Kukoc, talking about him being better than guys who are 5x allstars. That's crazy talk.

And pray tell what would Bosh do to Kukoc? You talk about Kukoc as if he's....Lebron, and that's hilarious. Kukoc could only go to his left and he wasn't the fastest gun in the west either. I don't think so...

I agree kukoc wouldn't be able to defend bosh. I just don't think bosh can defend kukoc either. And its not due to athletic superiority. Even though bosh isn't much more athletically gifted than kukoc. But Bosh is a bigman. And he's out of his comfort zone past 8 feet defensively. Hell I don't think bosh could handle kukoc in the post either.

And again, I'm not ranking them as far as accomplishments. I'm ranking them as far as talent.
 

scottiepippen1994

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I think Tony could hold his own against Bosh...Bosh may be a little more athletic, but Tony probabely has a bigger heart...Tony certainy wouldn't be in the locker room holding hands and crying after a loss..LoL..:derbulls:
 

houheffna

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I agree kukoc wouldn't be able to defend bosh. I just don't think bosh can defend kukoc either. And its not due to athletic superiority. Even though bosh isn't much more athletically gifted than kukoc. But Bosh is a bigman. And he's out of his comfort zone past 8 feet defensively. Hell I don't think bosh could handle kukoc in the post either.

And again, I'm not ranking them as far as accomplishments. I'm ranking them as far as talent.

Kukoc didn't score in the post against guys like Bosh on a routine basis. This is a bit much...Rodman better than Barkley...Kukoc better than Bosh...way too much home cooking man...
 

scottiepippen1994

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Kukoc didn't score in the post against guys like Bosh on a routine basis. This is a bit much...Rodman better than Barkley...Kukoc better than Bosh...way too much home cooking man...

I'm sorry Hue, somtimes we forget that your always right and that you are a certified NBA expert..How silly of us to debate someone who's opinion is the only one that counts here.....Tony Kucoc was awful and probabely didn't belong in the NBA..It is simply incredible that the Bulls were able to win three championships in a row with a garbage ass buster like Tony as the 6th man and 3rd leading scorer on that team..After all Tony was the worst 6th man in the history of sports..I promise and will may sure none of us ever eat homecooking again..Well just pile up on Mcdonalds and Donkin Donuts like you i f it pleases you oh great master of the messageboard....Please forgive us for disagreeing with you Lord..:bow:
We are nothing but the buzzing of flies to the likes of you your honor..

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUeda7dRN0E[/ame]

:bow::hitler::bowrofl:
 
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RamiTheBullsFan

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I'm sorry Hue, somtimes we forget that your always right and that you are a certified NBA expert..How silly of us to debate someone who's opinion is the only one that counts here.....Tony Kucoc was awful and probabely didn't belong in the NBA..It is simply incredible that the Bulls were able o win three championships in a row with a garbage ass buster like Tony as the 6th man and 3rd leading scorer on that team....Please forgive us for disagreeing with you Lord..:bow:
We are nothing but the buzzing of flies to the likes of you your honor..

‪My dear, sweet brother Numsie!!‬‏ - YouTube

Haha man when you know you don't have a logical response you just fly off the handle. It's pretty hilarious.
 

scottiepippen1994

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This is a bit much....Rodman better than Barkley....Kucoc better than Bosh....way too much home cooking man...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcJjMnHoIBI]‪"Weird Al" Yankovic - Eat It‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
 
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eternityw

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Kukoc didn't score in the post against guys like Bosh on a routine basis. This is a bit much...Rodman better than Barkley...Kukoc better than Bosh...way too much home cooking man...

Rodman is better defender then Barkley, that is for sure. He was defensive player of the year 2 times. The value of Rodman is higher then Barkley one, especially in bulls team where we had scores like mj, pip, kerr, kukoc and others.
 

eternityw

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Kukoc can score against Bosh in the post because Bosh is not defender at all. we saw how easily Dirk made game-winner in game 2 against miami. easy hesitation move and Bosh is out of play ))))
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Kukoc can score against Bosh in the post because Bosh is not defender at all. we saw how easily Dirk made game-winner in game 2 against miami. easy hesitation move and Bosh is out of play ))))

:obama: :obama: :obama:

Bosh is way, way, WAY better of a defender than Kukoc... do you not watch basketball?

Dirk Nowitzki can score against ANYONE. Dirk would have destroyed Kukoc... dear God.
 

eternityw

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:obama: :obama: :obama:

Bosh is way, way, WAY better of a defender than Kukoc... do you not watch basketball?

Dirk Nowitzki can score against ANYONE. Dirk would have destroyed Kukoc... dear God.

i am watching basketball and you are not playing as i understood.
dirk can score against anyone because opponent coach don't know how to defend him. Don Nelson's warriors team defended dirk well in 2007 and advanced to the second round. so defense is not 1 on 1 thing but team effort. i am sure that phil jackson could find the way to defend dirk by kukoc or you know who.... by scottie pippen.
barkley is more a scorer then defender. rodman is defense minded and can score too for fun.
 

97Bulls

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Rodman is better defender then Barkley, that is for sure. He was defensive player of the year 2 times. The value of Rodman is higher then Barkley one, especially in bulls team where we had scores like mj, pip, kerr, kukoc and others.

You must understand the pov that rami and heff come from. They're about stats. I'm about wins. My pov is tried and true. They're stat whores. The way they see a basketball game, is the same way I did when I was about 11 years old.

Like in the barkley/rodman comparison. A child would pick barkley cuz of his stats. But a championship coach would choose rodman cuz he's a winner. He's gonna do anything he needs to do to win. Barkley is an amazing talent. But he's not commited to winning. He has a errible work ethic and doesn't. Respect the game enough to utilize and maximize that amazing talent. That's why he has no rings. A lot of stats, but no rings.

Why do you think bob knight left his fat ass of the 84 olympic team? What he saw out of barkley was what we saw out of barkley his whole career. If he wanted stats, I'm sure barkley will get it for you. But lead a team to a championship? Forget it.

And as far as accomplishments, which I'm sure heff will allude to. Heff will say rodman didn't go to a lot of all-star games and didn't win all nba teams etc. Those are amzing accomplishments. But those are awards that are handed out to the best scorers. Not neccesarily the best players. I'm sure if you ask any nba player (including barkley) whose career they'd rather have, they all would choose rodmans.
 

eternityw

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You must understand the pov that rami and heff come from. They're about stats. I'm about wins. My pov is tried and true. They're stat whores. The way they see a basketball game, is the same way I did when I was about 11 years old.

Like in the barkley/rodman comparison. A child would pick barkley cuz of his stats. But a championship coach would choose rodman cuz he's a winner. He's gonna do anything he needs to do to win. Barkley is an amazing talent. But he's not commited to winning. He has a errible work ethic and doesn't. Respect the game enough to utilize and maximize that amazing talent. That's why he has no rings. A lot of stats, but no rings.

Why do you think bob knight left his fat ass of the 84 olympic team? What he saw out of barkley was what we saw out of barkley his whole career. If he wanted stats, I'm sure barkley will get it for you. But lead a team to a championship? Forget it.

And as far as accomplishments, which I'm sure heff will allude to. Heff will say rodman didn't go to a lot of all-star games and didn't win all nba teams etc. Those are amzing accomplishments. But those are awards that are handed out to the best scorers. Not neccesarily the best players. I'm sure if you ask any nba player (including barkley) whose career they'd rather have, they all would choose rodmans.

Thank you for your reply. I see you understand the game and players role in teams. Not only talent(s) of player(s) wins championships but how this talent will be released on the court by COACH ! Coach vision is very important in this case, on what position player will be on the court, his work there. So if player is "stats minded" that kind of team will loose, if he is working for team success that is another story.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Rodman is better defender then Barkley, that is for sure. He was defensive player of the year 2 times. The value of Rodman is higher then Barkley one, especially in bulls team where we had scores like mj, pip, kerr, kukoc and others.

For some reason I read this as "Rodman is better than Barkley."

Sorry, I must have been tired last night.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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You must understand the pov that rami and heff come from. They're about stats. I'm about wins. My pov is tried and true. They're stat whores. The way they see a basketball game, is the same way I did when I was about 11 years old.

Like in the barkley/rodman comparison. A child would pick barkley cuz of his stats. But a championship coach would choose rodman cuz he's a winner. He's gonna do anything he needs to do to win. Barkley is an amazing talent. But he's not commited to winning. He has a errible work ethic and doesn't. Respect the game enough to utilize and maximize that amazing talent. That's why he has no rings. A lot of stats, but no rings.

Why do you think bob knight left his fat ass of the 84 olympic team? What he saw out of barkley was what we saw out of barkley his whole career. If he wanted stats, I'm sure barkley will get it for you. But lead a team to a championship? Forget it.

And as far as accomplishments, which I'm sure heff will allude to. Heff will say rodman didn't go to a lot of all-star games and didn't win all nba teams etc. Those are amzing accomplishments. But those are awards that are handed out to the best scorers. Not neccesarily the best players. I'm sure if you ask any nba player (including barkley) whose career they'd rather have, they all would choose rodmans.

Um, I RARELY bring up stats and neither does Houf. You are completely off-base and are trying to cover up the fact that your opinions are largely based on your fanhood of the entire team.

If Jordan was never born, Barkley would have his one championship. Pippen would probably have zero. Kukoc would have zero. And Rodman would have 3-4 as the third or fourth best player on that Pistons' team. That is not based on stats either.

You calling Barkley a fatass shows that you are clearly biased against him because you ignore what he was able to accomplish with his athleticism and thickness for his entire career. The guy was a winner and a 1st option. Pippen was a winner and a 2nd option.

Number of all-star appearances are bullshit ways to evaluate a player because it is subjective. Barkley is a MUCH better scorer and MUCH better rebounder than Pippen while Pippen is a MUCH better defender. Based on what I have watched, I will take Barkley.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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Hell, if Barkley was on the 1995 Bulls (the year Jordan returned) instead of Pippen, the Bulls probably would have won the championship that season instead of losing in 6 in the Magic.
 

Kush77

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This is a tough one, but I'll give the edge to Kukoc for his ballhandling skills, far superior to Deng's.
 

97Bulls

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Um, I RARELY bring up stats and neither does Houf. You are completely off-base and are trying to cover up the fact that your opinions are largely based on your fanhood of the entire team.
I make my opinions based on how dominant the bulls were. And sure I'm a fan. But I question you loyalty.

If Jordan was never born, Barkley would have his one championship. Pippen would probably have zero. Kukoc would have zero. And Rodman would have 3-4 as the third or fourth best player on that Pistons' team. That is not based on stats either.
how can you arrive at this conclusion? And you need to let the 1st option/best player stuff go. Take rodman off the pistons, who would magic, bird, jordan etc? Dumars? Yeah he could but he'd expend a lot of energy doing it.

You calling Barkley a fatass shows that you are clearly biased against him because you ignore what he was able to accomplish with his athleticism and thickness for his entire career. The guy was a winner and a 1st option. Pippen was a winner and a 2nd option.
Lol barkley was a winner? Really? Last I checked barkley had no rings to his credit as any option. And not due to lack of talent and support. I'm hard on barkley cuz he was a small forward that had to play pf cuz he refused to loose weight. He should never have played at 270 lbs. He needed to be around 225. That would've helped his conditioning and defense.

Number of all-star appearances are bullshit ways to evaluate a player because it is subjective. Barkley is a MUCH better scorer and MUCH better rebounder than Pippen while Pippen is a MUCH better defender. Based on what I have watched, I will take Barkley.

That your opinion bro. And if you chose to roll with barkley, you'd have a guy that couldn't lead a team to shit. Pippen won and was co-leader of the bulls 2nd threepeat. And I'm sure that based on what I saw from pippen during that year plus that jordan was gone. Give him 5 years of having some of the mmost talented teams and he'd have an mvp and a championship.

Charles barkley was a great basketball player rami. I never said he wasn't. But when being compared to rodman, id choose rodman cuz he was a winner. Talent only gets you so far. And I base my assesment on experience. You take a super talented player with minimal motivation (barkley) and pit him against a guy that may not be as talented but has sheer grit and determination (rodman) and I'm telling you rodman is more than likley gonna come out on top.

Look at the rockets in 97. They had arguably more talent thann the bulls. Barkley, drexler and olajuwan were the same age as jordan, pippen and rodman. Why didn't the rockets at least get back to the fianls? What's barkleys excuse? He had the team, they had championship experience, they had a great coach, what was his excuse?
 
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