Mike Vrabel or Ben Johnson?

[remydat]

Said it in the TB thread but if TB had Caleb play well a 2nd time against Flores then I can see a Flores and Brown combo especially if KOC cosigns Brown as they worked together with the Rams.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

He found Arthur Smith and Matt LaFleur both of whom got HC gigs.

Arthur Smith sure but he didn’t find LaFleur.

 

[msadows]

Said it in the TB thread but if TB had Caleb play well a 2nd time against Flores then I can see a Flores and Brown combo especially if KOC cosigns Brown as they worked together with the Rams.

Is that what pff told you? Keep the coach who can barely score points in the first half?

 

[msadows]

I generally think the playcaller has the most to do with a qbs success. Sure there is occasionally a non playcaller that is involved in a qbs development, but every year when a random qb has success people try to attribute it to everyone on that offensive staff and generally it is just someone like mcvay, koc, mlf, shanny that made them look better.

Also, darnold spent last year with shanny as well. I think that has a lot more to do with his recent success than Josh McCown

 

[DefNextYear]

TUA is soft, caleb isn't.

This is interesting cause it’s something I’ve been wondering, but I’ll give two things for Tua.

1. Tua is showing he’s pretty tough right now. I know it’s not the exact same thing, but it’s something. Flores kind of drove him to believe he wasn’t good enough to play. Meanwhile, no one else can convince him not to even though it’ll possibly impact his long term quality of life.
2. Saban isn’t a soft coach and Tua had no problems with him.

Ultimately, I don’t know where I land on how soft Tua may be, but he can’t be super soft.

That said, I’ve come around on Flores though cause I think he’s probably learned from it all and I also think Caleb can take it. Caleb deals with all kinds of degrading shit all the time.

 

[playthrough2001]

Here’s an interesting article on McCown and his role in Minnesota.

How NFL journeyman Josh McCown is key facet of Vikings’ quarterback development plan

The longtime QB is taking the best lessons from his former coaches and working with Kevin O'Connell to generate signal caller success.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Midway Fields]

I see a number of Bear fans suggest Harbaugh was the answer and there is no question he’s a great coach.

However, none of us know what his stance was on Caleb. He stated many times that JJ was the best QB in the draft.

I can’t imagine hiring him if he insisted on selecting JJ McCarthy as the future of the franchise.

It was a non issue for the Chargers with Herbert in place.

This is the only reasonable explanation why you wouldn’t bring in Harbaugh.

 

[msadows]

This is the only reasonable explanation why you wouldn’t bring in Harbaugh.

What do people expect him to say? That was his quarterback at michigan.

He's not throwing his guy under the bus when it was the most important portion of his career to date.

I heavily doubt if you gave him truth serum he would say jj mchandy was the best of the bunch.

 

[Midway Fields]

What do people expect him to say? That was his quarterback at michigan.

He's not throwing his guy under the bus when it was the most important portion of his career to date.

I heavily doubt if you gave him truth serum he would say jj mchandy was the best of the bunch.

Harbaugh went above and beyond stroking McCarthy. I believe he believes McCarthy was the best QB in the draft.

 

[Chicoman]

I could wrong but Having a hard time seeing Warren and Georgie boy oking the hiring of Vrabel. He'd make them pee themselves a little bit every time he was in the room.

Not saying vrabel is the right pick, just don't see it. They can better control a guy like Johnson.

"Please don't swear Benjamin, mother doesn't like it". ~Georgie Boy McCaskey.

 

[Rise]

Honestly I’d be happy with Johnson or Vrabel. I’m surprised by how many people are against Johnson though. Acting like anyone could run that offense is ridiculous. If it was that easy every team would just draft oLiNe all day.

You can like Vrabel without tearing down Johnson. There is no perfect candidate.

 

[CanadaBear54]

Vrabel/Daboll and whoever at GM

Trestman vibes from Johnson but I could be wrong.

now this would be $$$

 

[Rise]

I can’t see Daboll choosing the Bears over going back to the Bills. This is my main argument against Joe Brady, why hire him over Daboll?

 

[Canth]

Harbaugh went above and beyond stroking McCarthy. I believe he believes McCarthy was the best QB in the draft.

I think it's more likely that Harbaugh believe McCarthy was the best QB for his brand of football of the bunch. So, efficient with limited attempts.

 

[Canth]

The issue with Vrabel and any defensive HC is what is their long term plan at OC?

Yes, I know that Vrabel hired LaFleur...who left after one year as the Titans OC. Arthur Smith left after 2 years before going on to fail as a HC.

That is the entire problem with a Vrabel hire. If he finds a good OC and they win, he probably loses them in 1-2 years and you are just endlessly changing the damn OC on your franchise QB. It's a horrible way to develop a QB and actually try to find a high level of sustained success in the modern NFL.

The only way, imo, that Vrabel works out is if he finds the next Tom Moore. Find a great OC that is content to just be a very well paid OC and that you can have on staff until they decide to retire. But, do any of those types exist right now? I know I don't know.

 

[Moses Moreno]

Is that what pff told you? Keep the coach who can barely score points in the first half?

No first downs in back to back first half, they've figured him out.

 

[Bearly]

Thats just one game, if you watch the lions a lot he does a lot of head scratching things.

That OL 100% makes life easy for him so who knows how good he actually is.

Not saying he's a fraud, but any offense/playcaller will look good with the quality of that lions OL. Just like any defense will look good with an elite DL. I'd rather get the lions GM than their OC.

Legit, you could use ask madden if your run plays are all going for 5 yards a pop and your QB usually has as much time to throw as he wants.

The other issue is you have zero clue if he can actually be a leader of a locker room, much as I think dan campbell is overrated he's the guy who keeps all those guys in line and motivated.

Don't disagree at all and not saying he'd be better than Vrabel. I'm a bit biased by our OC merry go round. Of course, we're right back there anyway if BJ isn't a good HC.

 

[Canth]

I know I have said elsewhere, but I'll repeat it again here.

As near as I can tell, the best offensive HC are the ones that have done more than just coach QB's and OC in their resume/background. That broader background seems to definitely help is their understanding of how to coach an entire team.

Ben Johnson does at least meet that criteria. So does Joe Brady although it was at the collegiate level.

I think Drew Petzing out of Arizona is another interesting one to consider. He has the diverse coaching background and he has already worked with a Lincoln Riley QB in Kyler Murray as well.

An older coach that doesn't get mentioned much but is on some HC candidate lists is Todd Monken. He has a varied background, was a HC a while back in college and has extensive OC experience. Not sure if he would be a good NFL HC, but probably at least worth an interview.

Liam Coen had a single year an asst WR coach in college, and has been mostly focused on QB and OC so that would concern me in regards to that criteria.

I would say no to the Kellen Moore's and Josh McCown's of the world.

 

[Bearly]

What do people expect him to say? That was his quarterback at michigan.

He's not throwing his guy under the bus when it was the most important portion of his career to date.

I heavily doubt if you gave him truth serum he would say jj mchandy was the best of the bunch.

Rumor is that his wife wanted the west coast and JH would only use the Bear for leverage.

Who knows?

 

[Canth]

So, following up on that post and thinking about it.

I don't think the Bears have to be laser focused on Ben Johnson as the only offensive HC candidate that can succeed. There are other potentially viable candidates like Brady, Petzing, or even maybe Monken.

I would vastly prefer they go with an offensive HC over any defensive HC.

Any defensive HC has to have a real rock solid long term plan on how he can hire and keep an OC in place and not just some general idea of they would like to run a Shanahan or McVay style of offense ala Eberflus.