Mike Vrabel or Ben Johnson?

[Bearly]

So, following up on that post and thinking about it.

I don't think the Bears have to be laser focused on Ben Johnson as the only offensive HC candidate that can succeed. There are other potentially viable candidates like Brady, Petzing, or even maybe Monken.

I would vastly prefer they go with an offensive HC over any defensive HC.

Any defensive HC has to have a real rock solid long term plan on how he can hire and keep an OC in place and not just some general idea of they would like to run a Shanahan or McVay style of offense ala Eberflus.

Eberflus was also a big part of that issue. He chose guys that weren't qualified nor ran an O within a HC defined outline. Ultimately proved he was a glorified DC. There's currently win stats available that say it's statistically moot whether you have a D or O minded head coach but they don't take into account that 11 of the 12 HCs to reach the SB since 2018 have been from the O side of the ball. The 5 years before that leaned the other way but it's looking like a trend.

 

[Caveroamer]

of the two I would prefer Vrabel and the experience. Someone who has proven they can do the simple things right like manage the clock or challenge a play.

Johnson may be a star, but I have nightmares of Nagy 2.0 (unwilling to bend. what, they are bad against the run? I'm gonna pass! 'cause MY WAY!) then there was Trestman. Basically, we haven't done will with an offensive HC since Ditka and what our okay defensive coaches have mostly missed was a good QB and we have that now, so that with a top 5 D and we're a consistent playoff team.

That said, whoever we get, Vrabel, Johnson, or Kevin Warren's challenged nephew, I'll root for them because I'm an old Bears fan fool.

 

[Anytime23]

Flores is a great coach. He had back to back winning seasons in Miami for the first time in 20 years I believe….and their roster wasn’t very good. The question marks with him is if he learned anything from the Tua situation….he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way….and who would his OC be? He had 3 different OCs in 3 years in Miami. For what it’s worth, Tomlin calls him the best coach currently not a HC

That team was actively tanking too and got the absolute most out of them the season leading up to the Tua draft. To his credit he wanted Herbert, but the way he handled it all was terrible and he has yet to prove he knows what a good OC is. Maybe he learned something from KOC but I honestly don’t know if hes gonna get a HC job after suing the NFL and ratting about the tank.

 

[Bearly]

of the two I would prefer Vrabel and the experience. Someone who has proven they can do the simple things right like manage the clock or challenge a play.

Johnson may be a star, but I have nightmares of Nagy 2.0 (unwilling to bend. what, they are bad against the run? I'm gonna pass! 'cause MY WAY!) then there was Trestman. Basically, we haven't done will with an offensive HC since Ditka and what our okay defensive coaches have mostly missed was a good QB and we have that now, so that with a top 5 D and we're a consistent playoff team.

That said, whoever we get, Vrabel, Johnson, or Kevin Warren's challenged nephew, I'll root for them because I'm an old Bears fan fool.

Johnson is actually calling games for the Lions. Nagy's resume for doing that was extremely questionable. Campbell was a TE but he's not running that O. You could see it right away when Nagy got here that he was conceptually limited, running the same plays from different sets instead of different plays from the same sets, complicating things for his O players while not fooling a D.

 

[bears51/40]

What OC role outside of the patriots?

He's been absolute shit outside of brady besides one year with mac jones

Also, it seems like his players dont like him very much. He doesnt scheme to player strengths, just runs his own system which he thinks is superior. Exactly the opposite of what we should be pursuing for a young QB.

Sounds like another out of touch genius in the room like waldron, except this guy gets sucked off because he had brady give him job promotions over the years

Not saying yea or nay to hoodie jr. but you left out his work with Matt Cassell in 2008.

 

[Enasic]

That team was actively tanking too and got the absolute most out of them the season leading up to the Tua draft. To his credit he wanted Herbert, but the way he handled it all was terrible and he has yet to prove he knows what a good OC is. Maybe he learned something from KOC but I honestly don’t know if hes gonna get a HC job after suing the NFL and ratting about the tank.

He’ll have an uphill battle for sure. There’s no doubt the guy can coach though. The Vikings have a top 5 scoring D with a bunch of JAGS

1. Ratting about the tank
2. The way he “handled” Tua
3. Getting the right OC

That’s a lot to overcome, but if I were runnings things and he had a really good OC and could convince me he learned from his experiences in Miami, he’d be right up there with Johnson/vrabel.

 

[msadows]

Johnson is actually calling games for the Lions. Nagy's resume for doing that was extremely questionable. Campbell was a TE but he's not running that O. You could see it right away when Nagy got here that he was conceptually limited, running the same plays from different sets instead of different plays from the same sets, complicating things for his O players while not fooling a D.

Yea, but do you really think nagy wouldnt be good too with the best oline and run game in the NFL?

Any NFL OC would have success with that lions talent

Not saying BJ is good or not, its just a big pause compared to a guy like Liam Coen in tampa who has a top 3 offense with a LOT less talent

 

[Forty-six]

The Bears control Caleb for 6 more years with the fifth year option and franchise tag. How is he “walking away in year 4?”

If things with the Bears are still horrific in year 4, Caleb could tell the Bears if you pick up my fifth year option just know I won't be playing for this organization after my 5th year. I'll enter free agency and go somewhere else. The Bears would get zero compensation in this scenario. And if Caleb, by this time, had developed into a top tier QB he would have significant value on the open market. The Bears would trade him in year 4 so they get something in return before he hits the open market as an unrestricted free agent.

Players don't have to sign the franchise tag. That creates a lot of problems for them but Caleb does have the option to not sign it.

I admit that my scenario is far fetched.

Personally, I believe the specter of Caleb leaving before he signs a second contract is a good thing. It might be the only thing that could force this organization and its leadership to get serious about doing things the right way, stop cutting corners and legitimately try to build a winner. If you do things the right way then Caleb never leaves Chicago and we are in the SB window for many years.

 

[Enasic]

Yea, but do you really think nagy wouldnt be good too with the best oline and run game in the NFL?

Any NFL OC would have success with that lions talent

Not saying BJ is good or not, its just a big pause compared to a guy like Liam Coen in tampa who has a top 3 offense with a LOT less talent

No, he wouldn’t. More successful than in Chicago? Probably. Good to finish top 5 each of the last 3 years like BJ? Not a chance. He’s too stubborn, not adaptive, and is terrible at in game adjustments. It’s kind of funny how KCs offense went downhill when Nagy returned there.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

So, following up on that post and thinking about it.

I don't think the Bears have to be laser focused on Ben Johnson as the only offensive HC candidate that can succeed. There are other potentially viable candidates like Brady, Petzing, or even maybe Monken.

I would vastly prefer they go with an offensive HC over any defensive HC.

Any defensive HC has to have a real rock solid long term plan on how he can hire and keep an OC in place and not just some general idea of they would like to run a Shanahan or McVay style of offense ala Eberflus.

I really dislike petzing. His passing concepts are pretty meh. He has misused mhj this year. He does have nice run game concepts. But he's a hard no for me.

 

[Forty-six]

Any NFL OC would have success with that lions talent

Not saying BJ is good or not, its just a big pause compared to a guy like Liam Coen in tampa who has a top 3 offense with a LOT less talent

This is a great point. Johnson has amazing talent around him. He deserves some credit for developing that talent but, overall, his players were great before they got to Detroit. What would he look like as a HC with less talent? It's impossible to say.

 

[bears51/40]

Honestly I’d be happy with Johnson or Vrabel. I’m surprised by how many people are against Johnson though. Acting like anyone could run that offense is ridiculous. If it was that easy every team would just draft oLiNe all day.

You can like Vrabel without tearing down Johnson. There is no perfect candidate.

Johnson and Vrabel are without a doubt the top two HC candidates in this cycle. Vrable will be a HC with someone in 2025, and Johnson probably will be also if he gets the right deal, otherwise he will be calling plays in Detroit.

If the Bears want the old hard ass coach hire Vrabel. If they want the young offensive minded HC to grow with CW, Johnson's their guy. Either one will be a good hire. If the Bears run the pros and cons for each one Vrabel is the safe pick while with Johnson there is a higher risk/reward factor. Ultimately, I don't think Poles/Warren will play it safe and they will go with the offensive HC.

 

[Enasic]

This is a great point. Johnson has amazing talent around him. He deserves some credit for developing that talent but, overall, his players were great before they got to Detroit. What would he look like as a HC with less talent? It's impossible to say.

This is kind of silly actually. What does Shanny look like without amazing talent? What does McVay look like without amazing talent? The trick is, maximizing that talent and BJ has done that.

People forget - The Rams had to attach first round picks with Goff to get Stafford. Goff was looked at as a loser before he got to the Lions and now people look at him a lot differently.

The Lions have a great OL, very good backs, ASB and la porta. That’s a great balance of talent, but it’s not like they have the most talented players on offense in the entire league.

The question I see with BJ is basically how he’d transition to HC and with lesser talent. It’s an unknown, but such is the nature of hiring a HC. Funny enough, the bears actually have a lot of talent on O. They don’t have the same OL, but obviously that would be heavily addressed in the off season. I’d actually argue they need more help on the DL, but both need to be addressed heavily.

 

[vinson555]

I think we forget, whoever is the right answer, the bears will pick someone else.

 

[bears51/40]

This is kind of silly actually. What does Shanny look like without amazing talent? What does McVay look like without amazing talent? The trick is, maximizing that talent and BJ has done that.

People forget - The Rams had to attach first round picks with Goff to get Stafford. Goff was looked at as a loser before he got to the Lions and now people look at him a lot differently.

The Lions have a great OL, very good backs, ASB and la porta. That’s a great balance of talent, but it’s not like they have the most talented players on offense in the entire league.

The question I see with BJ is basically how he’d transition to HC and with lesser talent. It’s an unknown, but such is the nature of hiring a HC. Funny enough, the bears actually have a lot of talent on O. They don’t have the same OL, but obviously that would be heavily addressed in the off season. I’d actually argue they need more help on the DL, but both need to be addressed heavily.

No matter who is named HC, Bears have to shore up the trenches on both sides of the ball through free agency and the draft or Warren and Poles will both be out of a job.

 

[Bearly]

Yea, but do you really think nagy wouldnt be good too with the best oline and run game in the NFL?

Any NFL OC would have success with that lions talent

Not saying BJ is good or not, its just a big pause compared to a guy like Liam Coen in tampa who has a top 3 offense with a LOT less talent

Nagy couldn't take advantage of Jordan Howard (run game) and that OL was pretty good before the guys aged out and got dings. It was a significant reason why Trubisky got to the playoffs. I get that BJ has an advantage with that OL but no, all other OCs would not be as good. Of course that OL is a consideration and it's also difficult to know if he can lead an entire team but you don't take success away from him as you'd like to do either. He likely had a pretty good say in selecting some of that O talent as well.

 

[DC]

The more this debate rages, and I know it's only going to get louder, the more pissed off I get about Jim Harbaugh. ****.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

The bears didn’t blow the harbaugh situation. Warren and George would never entertain allowing Harbaugh in the building. They would never hire a personality like him. You can’t really blow a situation that was never realistically on the table.

Them not even considering Harbaugh is blowing it, he was a perfect fit for the situation but Eberflus spent so much time under George’s desk and they wanted their yes man.

Not considering it because you don‘t want a strong personality is blowing it because means you put your personal preferences of having a yes man over winning.

 

[Enasic]

Them not even considering Harbaugh is blowing it, he was a perfect fit for the situation but Eberflus spent so much time under George’s desk and they wanted their yes man.

Not considering it because you don‘t want a strong personality is blowing it because means you put your personal preferences of having a yes man over winning.

I’ve said this since forever. George doesn’t prioritize winning and would never allow a personality like harbaugh in the building. He would rustle feathers and like you said, George needs yes man and guys like Eberflus. Whether that counts as blowing it is semantics, I guess….its just the way George is and will always be…so I guess in a sense, they will always blow it because they’ll never be dead set on hiring the best football guy. They’re only going to hire the “best football guy” that fits within all of the other non football related criteria that George mandates.

 

[Canth]

Another mentioned here in regards to Vrabel, but not as a HC candidate is Arthur Smith. I know he sucked in Atlanta, but they also generally had a horrible QB situation when he was there. Matt Ryan was past his prime and then they had no real answer after they flirted with Deshaun Watson.

He seems to have helped revitalize Russell Wilson.

Has he learned from his Atlanta experience enough to be a consideration? No idea, but another one to throw in the mix.

If you pair him a Saleh, could that work?