Mike Vrabel or Ben Johnson?

[PrimeTime]

Post evidence Vrabel neutered him. I think the difference between LaFleur in Tenn and in GB was Mariotta vs Rodgers. Also the No 1 O with Rams had a lot to do with McVay calling plays. That is why LaFleur was allowed to leave so he could call plays in Tenn.

All your points are legit but my point is perception is reality. This is about Vrabel attracting a good, up & coming OC, which defensive HC's have to be able to do. What LaFleur did in Tennessee does not help Vrabel's resume no matter who was on the roster. If you look at the pass to run ratio LaFleur had in Tennessee it's not going to excite any OC candidates. Just because LaFleur did well in GB doesn't help Vrabel unless there was evidence that what he did there was "THE" stepping stone that led him to the GB job. What LaFleur did in LA, whether he was the playcaller or not led to the GB job more than what he did in Tennessee.

 

[remydat]

All your points are legit but my point is perception is reality. This is about Vrabel attracting a good, up & coming OC, which defensive HC's have to be able to do. What LaFleur did in Tennessee does not help Vrabel's resume no matter who was on the roster. If you look at the pass to run ratio LaFleur had in Tennessee it's not going to excite any OC candidates. Just because LaFleur did well in GB doesn't help Vrabel unless there was evidence that what he did there was "THE" stepping stone that led him to the GB job. What LaFleur did in LA, whether he was the playcaller or not led to the GB job more than what he did in Tennessee.

Your perception and NFL team's perception are 2 different things. The facts are 2 OCs beccame HCs after working with Vrabel in the season prior. That is what helps Vrabel. His OCs stand a good chance of being a HC.

 

[msadows]

No, he wouldn’t. More successful than in Chicago? Probably. Good to finish top 5 each of the last 3 years like BJ? Not a chance. He’s too stubborn, not adaptive, and is terrible at in game adjustments. It’s kind of funny how KCs offense went downhill when Nagy returned there.

100% shot, when your run game is averaging 5+ YPC you can call stupid plays(Like ben johnson does too) and still be fine on 3rd down.

Think some of you dont comprehend the difference a dominant OL/DL makes and how easy it makes life for a QB/playcaller in the NFL

BJ would not magically make the bears offense look good this year because the OL is shit and the run game is shit. This all starts in the front office.

 

[Canth]

100% shot, when your run game is averaging 5+ YPC you can call stupid plays(Like ben johnson does too) and still be fine on 3rd down.

Think some of you dont comprehend the difference a dominant OL/DL makes and how easy it makes life for a QB/playcaller in the NFL

BJ would not magically make the bears offense look good this year because the OL is shit and the run game is shit. This all starts in the front office.

Based on the focus on defense initially had on defense that Poles had, likely due to Eberflus's input, I am hopeful that an offensive HC like Ben Johnson will push for OL. You already have talent at QB and the skill positions. It should be blindingly obvious they need OL the most on offense and yeah, DL on defense. They will have the resources to address those areas, so you just have to hope that the HC is smart enough to push for serious resource investment in the trenches.

 

[EDPeezy]

100% shot, when your run game is averaging 5+ YPC you can call stupid plays(Like ben johnson does too) and still be fine on 3rd down.

Think some of you dont comprehend the difference a dominant OL/DL makes and how easy it makes life for a QB/playcaller in the NFL

BJ would not magically make the bears offense look good this year because the OL is shit and the run game is shit. This all starts in the front office.

I’m not saying it’s a guarantee Johnson will work. Who knows really. Being a HC is different than being a OC. But you seem to think coaches are only as good as the players they have. Good coaches scheme well and make players better. Ben Johnson makes the Lions players better than what they’d be with a less talented offensive mind. There is no way you’re not aware of this phenomenon. But you repeatedly just regurgitate the same things as if you can’t grasp that fact. Good offensive minds put the players in a more advantageous position to be successful. It’s like you think if the Lions replaced Johnson with Luke Getsy everything for the most part would be the same. It wouldn’t.

 

[Da Coach]

Id like to see Vrabel as HC with Ken Dorsey OC.

 

[Canth]

Id like to see Vrabel as HC with Ken Dorsey OC.

Isn't Dorsey the guy that couldn't effectively use Josh Allen? I won't hold the current Browns against him too much as the entire Watson thing is a debacle right now, but it's not a good situation there either. So, why would we want that for the Bears?

Also, unless they fire the entire coaching staff, he is probably under contract to the Browns, it's a lateral move, so there's no given he is even available to be an OC elsewhere.

All of this again goes back to the issue with Vrabel and being able to hire a good OC and one that will stick around for a while and actually develop your franchise QB.

 

[Canth]

If we keep thinking about a Vrabel hire and then a long or at least longer term OC, my mind goes to an older OC that has had their shot already at HC and probably be just seen as a OC for the next long while.

Along those lines, if Pederson is fired by the Jags, would he be a viable option as just an OC? That's a tough one for sure, but I don't see him being considered for HC again. If he is just focused on offense as an OC, can he be an asset? He has years of playcalling experience and has won a SB. But the Jags also haven't really taken off with Lawrence on his watch and things didn't end well in Philly, so I don't know.

 

[Da Coach]

He may not be available but I really like how at both places he can draw up plays to get wide receivers open and often.

Bills reasons for not winning a SB yet go beyond play calling. Browns offense looks pretty good since Jameis took over but he's a real gambler with the ball.

I believe Vrabel also knows how to help oversee to build both interior lines. That was a staple in Tennessee and we need it here badly

 

[alswank87]

I’m not saying it’s a guarantee Johnson will work. Who knows really. Being a HC is different than being a OC. But you seem to think coaches are only as good as the players they have. Good coaches scheme well and make players better. Ben Johnson makes the Lions players better than what they’d be with a less talented offensive mind. There is no way you’re not aware of this phenomenon. But you repeatedly just regurgitate the same things as if you can’t grasp that fact. Good offensive minds put the players in a more advantageous position to be successful. It’s like you think if the Lions replaced Johnson with Luke Getsy everything for the most part would be the same. It wouldn’t.

There’s some truths to what you are saying, but Ben Johnson could scheme for Goff to do a few cartwheels before throwing the ball and that offensive line will still keep him from getting sacked. BJ could send your grandma out on a 4th and 2 to pick up a first down and she could probably do it behind that offensive line. They also have plenty of good receivers and running backs. It’s the one thing that worries me about Ben Johnson. He’s practically playing with a cheat code. He won’t have that in chicago, no matter how good our off-season is.

 

[EDPeezy]

There’s some truths to what you are saying, but Ben Johnson could scheme for Goff to do a few cartwheels before throwing the ball and that offensive line will still keep him from getting sacked. BJ could send your grandma out on a 4th and 2 to pick up a first down and she could probably do it behind that offensive line. They also have plenty of good receivers and running backs. It’s the one thing that worries me about Ben Johnson. He’s practically playing with a cheat code. He won’t have that in chicago, no matter how good our off-season is.

Johnson factors into those receivers and RB’s success. You just accept that guys like St Brown, LaPorta, Gibbs, etc are all all-pro caliber players on their own. Maybe they are. But I’d bet anything having Johnson plays a major role in their success. It’s sort of impossible to quantify how much exactly. It’s definitely one of the major ingredients though. St Brown wasn’t some big time prospect. He was a 3rd round pick. Him and LaPorta have only ever had Johnson as their OC. There’s a very good chance you don’t perceive them the same way under a different play caller. Gibbs has only ever had Johnson as his play caller . Everybody thought Goff sucked and McVay was entirely responsible for any success he had.

There are plenty of examples of guys excelling under a great mind and then hitting FA and signing a big deal and falling off the map because their situation completely changed. There is no way any of the guys I mentioned above are perceived the same way and put up the numbers they have if you put them in a Bears jersey, Or a Browns jersey, or a Jets jersey. I could go on and on. How many guys looked washed or are shit and then go to KC and Reid makes it work? These guys don’t magically get better when they get to KC. It’s the coaching.

 

[Fudrucker212]

They are set up as far as personnel goes but can another OC and continue to dominate. That’s not a guarantee.

Look

If BJ leaves, I guarantee there’s not much drop off to the next OC there. Lions are setup well. I’m thinking Vrabel, though he doesn’t wow me much either.

Look at the Lions offense the year before Johnson got there and see if you still think this.

 

[remydat]

Johnson factors into those receivers and RB’s success. You just accept that guys like St Brown and LaPorta are very good players. Maybe they are. But I’d bet anything having Johnson plays a major role in their success. St Brown wasn’t some big time prospect. He was a 3rd round pick. Him and LaPorta have only ever had Johnson as their OC. There’s a very good chance you don’t perceive them the same way under a different play caller. Gibbs has only ever had Johnson as his play caller . Everybody thought Goff sucked and McVay was entirely responsible for any success he had.

There are plenty of examples of guys excelling under a great mind and then hitting FA and signing a big deal and falling off the map because their situation completely changed. There is no way any of the guys I mentioned above are perceived the same way and put up the numbers they have if you put them in a Bears jersey, Or a Browns jersey, or a Jets jersey. I could go on and on. How many guys looked washed or are shit and then go to KC and Reid makes it work? These guys don’t magically get better when they get to KC. It’s the coaching.

St Brown was drafted 2021 when Anthony Lynn was the OC not Johnson. He had 912 yards as a rookie. Johnson didnt become OC until 2022.

 

[msadows]

Based on the focus on defense initially had on defense that Poles had, likely due to Eberflus's input, I am hopeful that an offensive HC like Ben Johnson will push for OL. You already have talent at QB and the skill positions. It should be blindingly obvious they need OL the most on offense and yeah, DL on defense. They will have the resources to address those areas, so you just have to hope that the HC is smart enough to push for serious resource investment in the trenches.

That doesnt mean anything when our GM cant identify talented OL.

Look

Look at the Lions offense the year before Johnson got there and see if you still think this.

BJ has been with the lions for a while and their offenses was 25th in 2021 when he was passing game coordinator.

They still had amon ra, hock, swift/jamal williams. Penis sewage played much better 2nd year and ragnow was great, that was the massive change.


Get a good OL and a braindead guy can look good as an OC

 

[msadows]

St Brown was drafted 2021 when Anthony Lynn was the OC not Johnson. He had 912 yards as a rookie. Johnson didnt become OC until 2022.

Yea, and the lions got a dominant OL and somehow magically the same skill players went from bottom tier offense to a top tier.

How much of BJ is him and how much of it is the OL?

 

[IBleedBearsBlood]

Thats just one game, if you watch the lions a lot he does a lot of head scratching things.

That OL 100% makes life easy for him so who knows how good he actually is.

Not saying he's a fraud, but any offense/playcaller will look good with the quality of that lions OL. Just like any defense will look good with an elite DL. I'd rather get the lions GM than their OC.

Legit, you could use ask madden if your run plays are all going for 5 yards a pop and your QB usually has as much time to throw as he wants.

The other issue is you have zero clue if he can actually be a leader of a locker room, much as I think dan campbell is overrated he's the guy who keeps all those guys in line and motivated.

I would assume the point is to get a good o-line like the lions if he gets the job. I’m sure he would want to better the team. That’s what everyone strives to do. When you don’t have it, you improvise until you get it. I’m sure Poles will try for o-line this year even more than ever. But you don’t hit on all players drafted or signed via free agency. And no telling if he makes any hits.

If you don’t get the necessary help with draft picks or via free agency, and you look bad in your 3rd 4th year as a head coach, and you get fired, well that’s just the way it played out for that head coach. Sucks but that’s how it rolls for some head coaches.

 

[EDPeezy]

St Brown was drafted 2021 when Anthony Lynn was the OC not Johnson. He had 912 yards as a rookie. Johnson didnt become OC until 2022.

My fault. I thought I might have been off one year with him. I was too lazy to check.

 

[HansGruber]

Might want to put Joe Brady on that list. Bills putting on a clinic right now.

 

[Unannounced Fart]

Why is Aaron Glenn always brought up as a head coaching candidate? His defense is getting gashed again, albeit against a great offense, but still... has he ever had a good defense?

 

[Toast88]

Vrabel may be a good coach, but enough screwing around.

If the Bears ONCE AGAIN choose a defensive head coach when they could’ve had the pick of the litter at offense, they deserve the inevitable long-term issues that presents.