***Official*** Chicago Bears Training Camp Thread!!! (Preamble to the Domination!) (FTO)

[gallagher]

Bears are setting up all these kick returns to be zone blocking plays. It should be herbert or roschon, not velus drops jr.

You dont need speed on the current variation of the kick return, you need vision, one cut ability, and contact balance. If you break past the initial barrier you basically are home free.

Not saying velus cant be good at it, just strange to me the bears are marching out all WR's to test it out when its essentially a slow developing zone run play.

Well, the way you construct this one out makes me feel as though Herbert is going to be the best play here. Color me convinced.

 

[DefNextYear]

Well his drafts and trades haven't been anything to write home about so far

The Young trade will probably go down as one of the better trades ever unless Caleb is a bust. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a considerably better outcome than what he's done already. Obviously, there are misses... Claypool being the worst of that crew, but there are others. That said, no one is batting 100.

Really though, it's too soon to conclude much. We can only see what he's done and how it's developing as it grows out of the gut rebuild. Poles success will probably ultimately just ride on Caleb and his development. If he's the right guy and able to lead this team, Poles will look like he did a good job. If Caleb doesn't, people will hate Poles.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

I like the direction mostly but to act like he's been great in any aspect outside of the #1 pick trade would be false.

It's funny I was listening to something before the draft and they were talking about eagles and ravens generally drafting really well/better than other teams. They also said they often pick guys from the consensus big boards and it isn't really some secret formula. So basically the best drafting teams often draft the consensus best players from different drafting networks. Which tells you a fan could come in and draft better than 90% of teams

I just don’t know how anyone could decide good or bad now. Year 1 was a clear tear down. He didn’t have a 1st round pick until last year. His other two 1sts haven’t played a down yet. There have been a few obvious whiffs and a few obvious hits. But other than he’s good with the media I can’t say anything with certainty. I like more ON PAPER than I dislike. But on paper doesn’t mean anything obviously. I’m just enjoying the ride.

 

[DefNextYear]

Bears are setting up all these kick returns to be zone blocking plays. It should be herbert or roschon, not velus drops jr.

You dont need speed on the current variation of the kick return, you need vision, one cut ability, and contact balance. If you break past the initial barrier you basically are home free.

Not saying velus cant be good at it, just strange to me the bears are marching out all WR's to test it out when its essentially a slow developing zone run play.

Agreed... and to be clear, I'm also not saying Velus can't be good there. However, I certainly am not confident he'll be good there. Any critical return we have, I'll be on the edge of my seat just hoping he can hold the damn ball. That's pretty shitty risk unless he's absolutely amazing when he does have the ball.

 

[playthrough2001]

We dont know because kick returns changed completely.

He also is the only kick returner in the NFL you absolutely can not depend on to field punts, so there is that!

Cordarrelle Patterson says hello just to name the first one that comes to mind.

 

[playthrough2001]

Probably one of the guys who doesn't drop the ball all the time.

Send me a clip of him dropping a kickoff.

 

[Moses Moreno]

You keep referring to the interior offense of line needing a talent infusion while ignoring the fact that he picked up two people on the interior offensive line.

Added two players for three holes. Jenkins and Davis cannot be relied upon week to week and if one of them are down week 1, Jeffrey Simmons will disrupt the game and some of Caleb's bad habits will emerge.

The window to win is now, the pressure for Eberflus might not be loud right now but it's coming week 1 if Tennessee steals week 1. I'm pretty freaking sure this dude isn't a Super Bowl winning coach.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Agreed... and to be clear, I'm also not saying Velus can't be good there. However, I certainly am not confident he'll be good there. Any critical return we have, I'll be on the edge of my seat just hoping he can hold the damn ball. That's pretty shitty risk unless he's absolutely amazing when he does have the ball.

He doesn’t have an issue holding onto the ball, his issue is catching the ball on punts. Kick return catching hasn’t been the problem.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Added two players for three holes. Jenkins and Davis cannot be relied upon week to week and if one of them are down week 1, Jeffrey Simmons will disrupt the game and some of Caleb's bad habits will emerge.

The window to win is now, the pressure for Eberflus might not be loud right now but it's coming week 1 if Tennessee steals week 1. I'm pretty freaking sure this dude isn't a Super Bowl winning coach.

The window to win is the next 4 years with a QB on a rookie contract. Stop being overly hyperbolic.

 

[gallagher]

Agreed... and to be clear, I'm also not saying Velus can't be good there. However, I certainly am not confident he'll be good there. Any critical return we have, I'll be on the edge of my seat just hoping he can hold the damn ball. That's pretty shitty risk unless he's absolutely amazing when he does have the ball.

WHAT IF this all leads up to the Bears drafting the next Devin Hester?

Think about it - in 2005, Bobbles Wade was our punt returner - who proceeded to fumble the ball 10 times over 10 receptions and 33 punt returns. Lovie Smith grew to loath it so much that the Bears drafted Devin Hester. The rest is HoF history.

This is the biggest stretch of a What If I have made in a long time, but seeing Hester's highlights recently had us all wonder how Hester would do with the new rules.

 

[bamainatlanta]

I just don’t know how anyone could decide good or bad now. Year 1 was a clear tear down. He didn’t have a 1st round pick until last year. His other two 1sts haven’t played a down yet. There have been a few obvious whiffs and a few obvious hits. But other than he’s good with the media I can’t say anything with certainty. I like more ON PAPER than I dislike. But on paper doesn’t mean anything obviously. I’m just enjoying the ride.

His biggest mistake was keeping Eberflus. I really wouldn’t mind another crappy season if it results in his removal, I just don’t see him being a SB winning coach.

 

[bamainatlanta]

WHAT IF this all leads up to the Bears drafting the next Devin Hester?

Think about it - in 2005, Bobbles Wade was our punt returner - who proceeded to fumble the ball 10 times over 10 receptions and 33 punt returns. Lovie Smith grew to loath it so much that the Bears drafted Devin Hester. The rest is HoF history.

This is the biggest stretch of a What If I have made in a long time, but seeing Hester's highlights recently had us all wonder how Hester would do with the new rules.

Velus has 0 fumbles as a KR if I’m not mistaken in almost 40 attempts. Yall keep bringing up that he’s a liability in catching kick returns but the reality is there is no correlation between what Bobby Wade did vs what Velus does. Velus can be an explosive weapon as the gadget player/KR specialist.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

His biggest mistake was keeping Eberflus. I really wouldn’t mind another crappy season if it results in his removal, I just don’t see him being a SB winning coach.

BUT HE GREW A BEARD!

YOU CAN’T SPELL BEARD WITHOUT BEAR!

BEAR + D = BEARD!

 

[iueyedoc]

We dont know because kick returns changed completely.

He also is the only kick returner in the NFL you absolutely can not depend on to field punts, so there is that!

Not defending VJJ but that is a complete bullshit, not even half of the top 32 KR's fielded a punt last season

 

[gallagher]

Velus has 0 fumbles as a KR if I’m not mistaken in almost 40 attempts. Yall keep bringing up that he’s a liability in catching kick returns but the reality is there is no correlation between what Bobby Wade did vs what Velus does. Velus can be an explosive weapon as the gadget player/KR specialist.

I just looked it up on the site above, and it does not break down whether his fumble is from a return or an offensive play. So he has 3 total fumbles, all from his rookie year by that count. Maybe my bias against him is from that rookie impression, with the addition of his inability to break out on offense last year - he got fewer touches on offense last year than he got his rookie year, and I think that justifies some pessimism.

I would say that I am not very fond of players on offense that are only effective on gadget plays. It seems to me that the element of surprise is less effective when the gadget player can't contribute on more routine plays.

 

[gallagher]

BUT HE GREW A BEARD!

YOU CAN’T SPELL BEARD WITHOUT BEAR!

BEAR + D = BEARD!

BEAR DOWN = BEARDOWN = OWN BEARD

 

[bamainatlanta]

I just looked it up on the site above, and it does not break down whether his fumble is from a return or an offensive play. So he has 3 total fumbles, all from his rookie year by that count. Maybe my bias against him is from that rookie impression, with the addition of his inability to break out on offense last year - he got fewer touches on offense last year than he got his rookie year, and I think that justifies some pessimism.

I would say that I am not very fond of players on offense that are only effective on gadget plays. It seems to me that the element of surprise is less effective when the gadget player can't contribute on more routine plays.

That really doesn’t explain why he can’t be good on KR(which he is good at). Also, never underestimate the value of a gadget player as a decoy. Nagy never figured that out.

 

[gallagher]

That really doesn’t explain why he can’t be good on KR(which he is good at). Also, never underestimate the value of a gadget player as a decoy. Nagy never figured that out.

Oh I was personally backing up after looking further into his past, regarding fumbles.

I don't think he cannot be a good kick returner (damn double-negatives). Let's call it pessimistic, but open minded.

 

[msadows]

Cordarrelle Patterson says hello just to name the first one that comes to mind.

Patterson was 10x(literally) the receiver velus was prior to switching to RB.

Velus has no use outside of fielding KR's in a league where the kick return is dead.

Now they are desperately trying to find a role for him on this team. Who knows if he's even going to be good at the new kick returns.

 

[DefNextYear]

He doesn’t have an issue holding onto the ball, his issue is catching the ball on punts. Kick return catching hasn’t been the problem.

Well, really catching the ball anywhere besides KR... and quite frankly, I'm still not going to be confident he'll do KR just fine going forward when he's unable to catch the ball in other areas. I see it more of "it probably just hasn't happened there yet". When the sample size grows and he shows it, with the new rules, maybe my confidence will grow.