***Official*** Chicago Bears Training Camp Thread!!! (Preamble to the Domination!) (FTO)

[bamainatlanta]

Oh I was personally backing up after looking further into his past, regarding fumbles.

I don't think he cannot be a good kick returner (damn double-negatives). Let's call it pessimistic, but open minded.

The stats are already there to look up. Not sure how this is difficult to research.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Well, really catching the ball anywhere besides KR... and quite frankly, I'm still not going to be confident he'll do KR just fine going forward when he's unable to catch the ball in other areas. I see it more of "it probably just hasn't happened there yet". When the sample size grows and he shows it, with the new rules, maybe my confidence will grow.

He has ample sample size in KR. Did this board just lose their collective minds in how not to just use a search function?

 

[DefNextYear]

Velus has 0 fumbles as a KR if I’m not mistaken in almost 40 attempts. Yall keep bringing up that he’s a liability in catching kick returns but the reality is there is no correlation between what Bobby Wade did vs what Velus does. Velus can be an explosive weapon as the gadget player/KR specialist.

Can he? Yea.. sure he can be... but he's not really shown anything to say he is likely to be an explosive weapon. He's done little in his time as a Bear. I know he's strong and fast, but I'm not really convinced he's obviously better than someone like Herbert (who was mentioned already in this thread), among other possibilities. We could also probably pick a number of guys from free agency with similar knowns and unknowns as Velus if we needed to replace him.

Again, I don't mind giving him a shot there and I expect he'll be the primary KR'er. I'm on the record posting somewhere in these forums saying the rule change on the KR may be what saves his career and I hope it does. So, I get why he probably will be our KR guy; but, he's also not an obvious choice to be great or special based on anything we've seen.

 

[DefNextYear]

He has ample sample size in KR. Did this board just lose their collective minds in how not to just use a search function?

Your definition of ample is clearly not the same as mine, which is fine. But under 40 returns and around 60% of the KR attempts for the Bears in his time isn't a vote of confidence for me when you can't handle the ball in other areas of the field.

 

[iueyedoc]

Patterson was 10x(literally) the receiver velus was prior to switching to RB.

Velus has no use outside of fielding KR's in a league where the kick return is dead.

Now they are desperately trying to find a role for him on this team. Who knows if he's even going to be good at the new kick returns.

 

[DefNextYear]

Send me a clip of him dropping a kickoff.

So because he's never dropped a kickoff, you think that's a guarantee he has no problems there when he's shown obvious issues being able to do so in other areas? How about you send me the clips proving he's good at KR? I know people like to be snobby about PFF, but VJJ has done nothing to warrant you defending him. He's only been ok... average... whatever you want to name it. And he's only been that in the one area you imply he's good at. He's been shit everywhere else.

 

[gallagher]

The stats are already there to look up. Not sure how this is difficult to research.

I have yet to see him return a kick with the new format. Aside from stats that show ball security, what other stat is there to look up?

I am of the opinion, though, that the new KR rules are radically different. You may feel otherwise. Even if the rules aren't radically different, his KR average is around 27 yards - meaning a touchback would have been preferred. Do you have stats that break down the figures better?

 

[DefNextYear]

WHAT IF this all leads up to the Bears drafting the next Devin Hester?

Think about it - in 2005, Bobbles Wade was our punt returner - who proceeded to fumble the ball 10 times over 10 receptions and 33 punt returns. Lovie Smith grew to loath it so much that the Bears drafted Devin Hester. The rest is HoF history.

This is the biggest stretch of a What If I have made in a long time, but seeing Hester's highlights recently had us all wonder how Hester would do with the new rules.

I've wondered if Hester has generally just spoiled my expectations for a returner.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Can he? Yea.. sure he can be... but he's not really shown anything to say he is likely to be an explosive weapon. He's done little in his time as a Bear. I know he's strong and fast, but I'm not really convinced he's obviously better than someone like Herbert (who was mentioned already in this thread), among other possibilities. We could also probably pick a number of guys from free agency with similar knowns and unknowns as Velus if we needed to replace him.

Again, I don't mind giving him a shot there and I expect he'll be the primary KR'er. I'm on the record posting somewhere in these forums saying the rule change on the KR may be what saves his career and I hope it does. So, I get why he probably will be our KR guy; but, he's also not an obvious choice to be great or special based on anything we've seen.

Based on sample size, I believe he ranked top 10 in KR average and that’s without a long KR to skew the average. So he’s formerly above average there.

I have yet to see him return a kick with the new format. Aside from stats that show ball security, what other stat is there to look up?

I am of the opinion, though, that the new KR rules are radically different. You may feel otherwise. Even if the rules aren't radically different, his KR average is around 27 yards - meaning a touchback would have been preferred. Do you have stats that break down the figures better?

are you trying to use last year stats and place them into this year’s kick return rules? And no, a touchback wouldn’t be preferred.

 

[bamainatlanta]

So because he's never dropped a kickoff, you think that's a guarantee he has no problems there when he's shown obvious issues being able to do so in other areas? How about you send me the clips proving he's good at KR? I know people like to be snobby about PFF, but VJJ has done nothing to warrant you defending him. He's only been ok... average... whatever you want to name it. And he's only been that in the one area you imply he's good at. He's been shit everywhere else.

View attachment 39755

lol. Love using PFF when you could just use actual stats. Good stuff. And no, he’s in the top 10 and well above average. Thanks.

 

[msadows]

can we start a velus thread?
I dont want TRAINING CAMP UPDATES to be about a guy no one carees about

 

[gallagher]

Based on sample size, I believe he ranked top 10 in KR average and that’s without a long KR to skew the average. So he’s formerly above average there.


are you trying to use last year stats and place them into this year’s kick return rules? And no, a touchback wouldn’t be preferred.

No, I am wondering what stats to look up that would translate well into this year. I already moved my opinion after talking with you a bit on this, where I ha previously stated that he is Bobby Wade-esque. I wanted to dig a little further, because you said that the stats were there to look up.

I see you point out his average - he is one of the best by average for everyone with at least 10 KR.

I just don't have a lot of confidence in VJJ, and I think that that is a widely shared feeling. I do want to be open minded about the players that put on our colors though, so I am interested in learning more from anyone who feels otherwise.

 

[bamainatlanta]

No, I am wondering what stats to look up that would translate well into this year. I already moved my opinion after talking with you a bit on this, where I ha previously stated that he is Bobby Wade-esque. I wanted to dig a little further, because you said that the stats were there to look up.

I see you point out his average - he is one of the best by average for everyone with at least 10 KR.

I just don't have a lot of confidence in VJJ, and I think that that is a widely shared feeling. I do want to be open minded about the players that put on our colors though, so I am interested in learning more from anyone who feels otherwise.

I don’t know how anything will translate to the new rules. It’s all speculation. Velus gets shit on because you don’t normally spend a 3rd on a gadget player and he flat out sucks as a WR. But his value is in special teams.

 

[gallagher]

I don’t know how anything will translate to the new rules. It’s all speculation. Velus gets shit on because you don’t normally spend a 3rd on a gadget player and he flat out sucks as a WR. But his value is in special teams.

Ah I see.

Yeah the source of my pessimism absolutely is in how he just doesn't provide much for a WR. It is weird how our perception shifts based on when they are drafted - Tyler Scott is a fourth rounder and I think people are far more optimistic for him. Yet Scott only took in 17 catches last year and is similarly buried behind far more talented starters.

 

[DefNextYear]

lol. Love using PFF when you could just use actual stats. Good stuff. And no, he’s in the top 10 and well above average. Thanks.

Actual stats are what they are... an average based on 16 attempts isn't that amazing. I can't say where he started each of those runs or how far he took each of those runs. For example, if you take a lot out of the end zone, you're more likely to have a higher average. That average increases with distance kicked... so, average alone isn't that concluding to me. It also doesn't tell me if there were other factors like if he made any special moves based on bad blocking or he did well cause of good blocking. When we're talking about averages that can vary on those factors... plus, we're talking like a 10% deviation between 12 and 20... again, nothing to be so sure about.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Actual stats are what they are... an average based on 16 attempts isn't that amazing. I can't say where he started each of those runs or how far he took each of those runs. For example, if you take a lot out of the end zone, you're more likely to have a higher average. That average increases with distance kicked... so, average alone isn't that concluding to me. It also doesn't tell me if there were other factors like if he made any special moves based on bad blocking or he did well cause of good blocking. When we're talking about averages that can vary on those factors... plus, we're talking like a 10% deviation between 12 and 20... again, nothing to be so sure about.

View attachment 39757

K thanks.

 

[DefNextYear]

K thanks.

Well, put it this way... if we didn't have Velus on this team, would you expect a significant impact to the Bears production based on his all-around ability or KR ability?

 

[bamainatlanta]

Well, put it this way... if we didn't have Velus on this team, would you expect a significant impact to the Bears production based on his all-around ability or KR ability?

Depends on who replaces him. They need speed in the backfield and on special teams. With the new rules, it’s anyone’s guess on how this will play out.

 

[DC]

Wright out with an undisclosed injury

 

[bamainatlanta]

Wright out with an undisclosed injury

Fuck.