Schefter: Multiple teams contacted Bears about Jordan Howard

[Rory Sparrow]

No one here can say for sure if the Bears were truly in on Hunt. It is quite possible that Pace and Nagy really wanted Hunt and it got nixed from high atop Halas Hall, its possible Pace wanted Hunt but Hunt didn't want the Bears, and its possible the Bears were not seriously considering Hunt because he may be out more than half the season and will be a RFA next year....

I think Nagy was truly in on Hunt. Pace seemed to be more apprehensive, which IMO would be the issue. I honestly don't think it was nixed atop Halas Hall because they are loath to be involved in anything, and I've never heard them nixing anyone before (remember when Pace signed Jay Ratliff?). It would be against historic precedent for the McCaskey's to overrule the GM on personnel matters.

I think Pace was waiting for the situation to cool down, perhaps for the league to weigh in on Hunt's suspension, and (typical Pace) also take time to gauge "fan reaction" to the potential acquisition of Hunt to see if it would be too negative. Pace wanted to perform an extensive case study on the Hunt situation before making a move, and the Browns acted decisively. JMO.

 

[Visionman]

If we trade Howard and dont sign a legit player like Coleman, we could be in trouble. We draft a 4th rounder to get a timeshare of the carries and we could be looking at a player the caliber of Jeremy Langford. This won’t do for a team with super bowl aspirations.

No matter who takes Howard's spot on the roster, this offense is going to feature Cohen at RB...

 

[msadows]

No matter who takes Howard's spot on the roster, this offense is going to feature Cohen at RB...

If by feature you mean more than 50%+ of the snaps, I agree.

If by feature you mean he will get the bulk of the carries, lol no you drunk go home.

 

[modo]

I think Nagy was truly in on Hunt. Pace seemed to be more apprehensive, which IMO would be the issue. I honestly don't think it was nixed atop Halas Hall because they are loath to be involved in anything, and I've never heard them nixing anyone before (remember when Pace signed Jay Ratliff?). It would be against historic precedent for the McCaskey's to overrule the GM on personnel matters.

I think Pace was waiting for the situation to cool down, perhaps for the league to weigh in on Hunt's suspension, and (typical Pace) also take time to gauge "fan reaction" to the potential acquisition of Hunt to see if it would be too negative. Pace wanted to perform an extensive case study on the Hunt situation before making a move, and the Browns acted decisively. JMO.

It is entirely possible, but Pace has shown in the past that if he truly wants something he doesn't fuck around. We saw that with the Mack trade.

I think Nagy probably wanted Hunt and I am, sure Pace considered it....at the end of the day I think there were too many concerns over a potential suspension. We can speculate all we want but at the end of the day it is just fan speculation.

 

[msadows]

Not sure where you are getting your information from...I have Howard with 624 snaps. I like the assumption that every snap which Howard didn't get a handoff resulted in a pass attempt, but whatever.

When Howard was in on 60% of the team's snaps, the Bears were 6-1. When he was in on less than 60%, they were 6-3. When Cohen was in on 45% of the team's snaps, the Bears were 6-3. When Cohen was in on less than 45% of the snaps, the Bears were 6-1. Amazing, amirite?

I figured out that the Bears averaged more yards per play when Anthony Miller was on the field, so I suggest the Bears move Miller to RB and replace Howard.

The elephant in the room is that Pace was beat to the punch by the Browns in acquiring Kareem Hunt. That was a terrible miscalculation by Pace, perhaps the biggest story of this offseason for the Bears. Had the Bears signed Hunt, no one would even be talking about Jordan Howard.

Got my info from football outsiders. Either way at 624 snaps its essentially the same. Yes, the assumption is that when not rushing the play is a designed pass(Which obviously is flawed) because I couldn't find specific stats for when they were in for a pass/rush.

Still, seeing that they were in on the field for comparable amounts of passing snaps just shows how inefficient howard was in this offense. The data I provided was to debunk the theory that we barely threw under howard and that is the result of the much lower Yards Per Play that Waddle and Silvy brought up.

All I really tried to point out was cohens higher yards per play isn't just due to a higher pass count.

Then again, 4.5YPC is obviously better than 3.7YPC. One's a better running back too, don't see why the team wouldn't be more explosive with him in.

Cohen being in on less snaps usually means we are winning a game, so no that stat isn't really amazing.

 

[iueyedoc]

I still don't understand what you mean by "incongruous". I also don't understand why you are restating what actually happened, putting it into the form of a question, then adding "seems legit". Just a few moments ago, you had no recollection of the EOY presser. Incredible stuff.

Since you don't have the google function to look up incongruous...
in·con·gru·ous

/ˌinˈkäNGɡro͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: incongruous

not in harmony or keeping with the surroundings or other aspects of something.

Your original premise that Pace got "beat to the punch" for signing Hunt at barely over a vet minimum contract and your follow up posts that Nagy was so enamored with Hunt and that the Bears were seriously considering so much so that him he ignored everything Bears to just talk about him at the EOY presser just don't mesh.

It's like if everyone stepped back you could just argue with yourself.

And I didn't watch the EOY presser, I was just trusting in your recall, which may be a mistake as you seem to be suffering from early dementia, to the degree of not knowing whether you think the Bears desperately wanted Hunt or absentmindedly forgot to pursue him. They are making great strides in treatment, my thoughts are with you. Good Luck.

I will let you go nap now you must be getting tired.

 

[remydat]

Why was the OL all of a sudden better when Cohen ran the ball?

The OL isnt better. Cohen simply does his own thing and isn't as reliant on good blocking. Just like Barry Sanders could make something out of nothing.

The problem with Power blocking is if you get crushed at the hole, you are fucked. If you are Cohen, you can simply try and bounce shit outside regardless of poor blocking.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Either way at 624 snaps its essentially the same. Yes, the assumption is that when not rushing the play is a designed pass(Which obviously is flawed) because I couldn't find specific stats for when they were in for a pass/rush.

So you were wrong about Howard's snaps, and you made up the run/pass ratio, despite citing both in statistical form. Got it.

Cohen being in on less snaps usually means we are winning a game, so no that stat isn't really amazing.

Cool. So Howard being in on more snaps usually means 'we' are winning a game. I can't argue with you on the YPC...that is definitely a correct stat!

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

So you were wrong about Howard's snaps, and you made up the run/pass ratio, despite citing both in statistical form. Got it.



Cool. So Howard being in on more snaps usually means 'we' are winning a game. I can't argue with you on the YPC...that is definitely a correct stat!

Not sure if you are aware, but msadows is an idiot. Just an FYI for the future.

 

[WindyCity]

The OL isnt better. Cohen simply does his own thing and isn't as reliant on good blocking. Just like Barry Sanders could make something out of nothing.

The problem with Power blocking is if you get crushed at the hole, you are fucked. If you are Cohen, you can simply try and bounce shit outside regardless of poor blocking.

Or your yards per carry is increased by actually being able to do something at the second level.

Or you actually hit the hole with some velocity and do not waddle through it as it closes.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Your original premise that Pace got "beat to the punch" for signing Hunt at barely over a vet minimum contract and your follow up posts that Nagy was so enamored with Hunt and that the Bears were seriously considering so much so that him he ignored everything Bears to just talk about him at the EOY presser just don't mesh..

Are you suffering from a stroke? Seek help...or read Post #121! What on earth are you blabbering about? The whole issue is that the Bears/Pace DIDN'T seriously consider signing Hunt, and now its too late. Still not seeing where the 'incongruency' is in my posts. I thought it was a relatively simply concept based on historical fact...Bears moved too slow to sign Hunt. Who knew that these matters would lead to hours of 'debate' on the CCS message board?

 

[msadows]

So you were wrong about Howard's snaps, and you made up the run/pass ratio, despite citing both in statistical form. Got it.



Cool. So Howard being in on more snaps usually means 'we' are winning a game. I can't argue with you on the YPC...that is definitely a correct stat!

I wasn't wrong. He had 650 snaps if you include the playoffs. You weren't wrong either.

And I didn't make up a pass/run ratio. Unless you have a stat somewhere that specifically states how many pass plays howard was in, what I did is the most reliable information available to use.

You remove rush snaps from total snaps and the high majority of the remaining snaps will be.....passing snaps. Derp.

Sorry, I know you have to be right 24/7. You just argue for the sake of arguing.

Instead of going ohh wow nice insight you'd rather bitch about 20 snaps or the fact we don't know if the play was a designed run to a second RB.

 

[msadows]

Obviously if howard plays the game more we are winning. He's our wind the clock down bruising back. You don't run cohen out in the 4th quarter to run the clock if you think you have a W.

Astute observation Rory.

 

[iueyedoc]

Or your yards per carry is increased by actually being able to do something at the second level.

Or you actually hit the hole with some velocity and do not waddle through it as it closes.

I think you might be a little harsh when it comes to JH. He seemed to find his way late in the season, averaging over 4.5 YPA and 80 YPG over the last 3rd of the season(5games). That makes the trade vs keep him decision a bit more difficult but that is what Pace is paid to figure out. Is 2019 Howard the last 5 game 4.5YPA guy, or is he the guy that had 5 of 11 games at 2.5YPA or less to begin the season?

One is worth more than a 4th rd pick the other isn't.

 

[remydat]

Or your yards per carry is increased by actually being able to do something at the second level.

Or you actually hit the hole with some velocity and do not waddle through it as it closes.

Yeah but we saw last year Cohen bouncing things outside away from the actual hole. Sometimes he may have missed the hole but other times it was because there was absolutely nothing there but he had the ability to turn nothing into something. Your argument with make more sense if Cohen was consistently hitting the hole as designed. He isn't because on the eye test.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I wasn't wrong. He had 650 snaps if you include the playoffs. You weren't wrong either.

I KNOW I wasn't wrong. You were. If you are including Howard's playoff snaps, thus increasing his actual 624 snaps to your modified 650 snaps (which is also wrong...Howard's playoff snaps puts him at 648, nice try), then I'm not sure why Cohen's snap counts didn't increase from the 495 he had in the regular season. I know that Nagy ignored Cohen in that Eagles game, but I highly doubt that Cohen saw the field for an offensive snap at some point during the game. I will re-watch the game and confirm this with you later.

And I didn't make up a pass/run ratio. Unless you have a stat somewhere that specifically states how many pass plays howard was in, what I did is the most reliable information available to use.

Why would I be the person supply the "specifics" (i.e. "facts")? You made up the pass/run ratio. Great.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I wasn't wrong. He had 650 snaps if you include the playoffs. You weren't wrong either.

And I didn't make up a pass/run ratio. Unless you have a stat somewhere that specifically states how many pass plays howard was in, what I did is the most reliable information available to use.

You remove rush snaps from total snaps and the high majority of the remaining snaps will be.....passing snaps. Derp.

Sorry, I know you have to be right 24/7. You just argue for the sake of arguing.

Instead of going ohh wow nice insight you'd rather bitch about 20 snaps or the fact we don't know if the play was a designed run to a second RB.

How about when both Howard and Cohen are in the backfield and the attempt goes to Cohen? Or Mitch? How are those counted?

 

[iueyedoc]

Are you suffering from a stroke? Seek help...or read Post #121! What on earth are you blabbering about? The whole issue is that the Bears/Pace DIDN'T seriously consider signing Hunt, and now its too late. Still not seeing where the 'incongruency' is in my posts. I thought it was a relatively simply concept based on historical fact...Bears moved too slow to sign Hunt. Who knew that these matters would lead to hours of 'debate' on the CCS message board?

FFS, you can't even get through 1 post without contradicting yourself. How can you move slowly at something you aren't going to do?

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Obviously if howard plays the game more we are winning. He's our wind the clock down bruising back. You don't run cohen out in the 4th quarter to run the clock if you think you have a W.

Astute observation Rory.

Cool. I would suspect that the "wind the clock down" offense wouldn't be as 'efficient' as the team's regular 'score points' offense, nor would I expect the "wind the clock down bruising back" to have a higher YPC than a RB like Cohen. Glad we've established these parameters.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

FFS, you can't even get through 1 post without contradicting yourself.

Again, past posts are your friend in this situation. This is obviously a dead-end, as it is taking too long to get you up to speed on the situation. Perhaps you can simply erase your mind (not that much to ask in this case), read Post #121, and provide commentary.