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So had he retired long ago when he was supposed to, he would still be a blackhawk?
PatrickShart
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Espo, Mikita played in non-Free Agency years....not many switched teams then unless traded really, but one player that did was....
Hull bolted for Winnepeg after his drinking and wife beating....does that make him a douchebag too?
And the "majority" of his career as in 1 year - but 86 less games, and the end/twilight years.
Hull bolted for Winnepeg after his drinking and wife beating....does that make him a douchebag too?
And the "majority" of his career as in 1 year - but 86 less games, and the end/twilight years.
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[quote name="pmxc12873"]Espo, Mikita played in non-Free Agency years....not many switched teams then unless traded really, but one player that did was....
Hull bolted for Winnepeg after his drinking and wife beating....does that make him a douchebag too?
And the "majority" of his career as in 1 year - but 86 less games, and the end/twilight years.[/quote]
Free agency will mean less retired-number-deserving players. That's the trade off for career flexibility. And yes, the majority of his career was played elsewhere (Montreal+Detroit+Atlanta).
NHL legend, but not a legend of any particular team.
Hull bolted for Winnepeg after his drinking and wife beating....does that make him a douchebag too?
And the "majority" of his career as in 1 year - but 86 less games, and the end/twilight years.[/quote]
Free agency will mean less retired-number-deserving players. That's the trade off for career flexibility. And yes, the majority of his career was played elsewhere (Montreal+Detroit+Atlanta).
NHL legend, but not a legend of any particular team.
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[quote name="E Runs"]
By that logic how can he only be considered a Red Wing?[/quote]
I guess that's my point. He really can't be considered anything. He's one of the best ever, but just because he played here doesn't mean he should be honored here.
He won 'Cups in Detwat and Montreal. Let them honor his ass.
By that logic how can he only be considered a Red Wing?[/quote]
I guess that's my point. He really can't be considered anything. He's one of the best ever, but just because he played here doesn't mean he should be honored here.
He won 'Cups in Detwat and Montreal. Let them honor his ass.
PatrickShart
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And thats your opinion on retiring numbers...
I think he played his best NHL and International Hockey as a Blackhawk, was one of the best defenceman in the league for about 10-15 year span (majority of that as a Hawk)...and over 26 seasons of professional hockey, in this day and age...is pretty special.
I think he played his best NHL and International Hockey as a Blackhawk, was one of the best defenceman in the league for about 10-15 year span (majority of that as a Hawk)...and over 26 seasons of professional hockey, in this day and age...is pretty special.
bubbleheadchief
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[quote name="BlackhawkPaul"]
Bubble- Pete Rose is a jackass, but his contributions on the field cannot be denied. It's a damn shame he's not in the HOF. Put him in, and keep his lying ass off of a baseball diamond and dugout.[/quote]
He was banned for Life from Baseball...includes the hall. Sorry, I didnt make the rule or the judgement. I agree with the stats the guy had, he "only" bet on baseball, and should be in, but like I said Giamatti said: **** you Petey ol' boy.
Bubble- Pete Rose is a jackass, but his contributions on the field cannot be denied. It's a damn shame he's not in the HOF. Put him in, and keep his lying ass off of a baseball diamond and dugout.[/quote]
He was banned for Life from Baseball...includes the hall. Sorry, I didnt make the rule or the judgement. I agree with the stats the guy had, he "only" bet on baseball, and should be in, but like I said Giamatti said: **** you Petey ol' boy.
E Runs
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[quote name="puckjim"]
NHL legend, but not a legend of any particular team.[/quote]
I like the way you think and you're right, #'s 7 & 24 should be retired league wide.
NHL legend, but not a legend of any particular team.[/quote]
I like the way you think and you're right, #'s 7 & 24 should be retired league wide.
E Runs
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[quote name="puckjim"]
I guess that's my point. He really can't be considered anything. He's one of the best ever, but just because he played here doesn't mean he should be honored here.
He won 'Cups in Detwat and Montreal. Let them honor his ass.[/quote]
Did Savard win a Cup here?
I guess that's my point. He really can't be considered anything. He's one of the best ever, but just because he played here doesn't mean he should be honored here.
He won 'Cups in Detwat and Montreal. Let them honor his ass.[/quote]
Did Savard win a Cup here?
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[quote name="E Runs"]
Did Savard win a Cup here?[/quote]
90% of his Career was spent in Chicago. Not to much for Chelios who asked for a trade to get out of town.
No thanks.
Did Savard win a Cup here?[/quote]
90% of his Career was spent in Chicago. Not to much for Chelios who asked for a trade to get out of town.
No thanks.
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[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]
He was banned for Life from Baseball...includes the hall. Sorry, I didnt make the rule or the judgement. I agree with the stats the guy had, he "only" bet on baseball, and should be in, but like I said Giamatti said: **** you Petey ol' boy.[/quote]
He was banned for life for something he was proven to have done "after" his playing days were over.
**** the MLB HOF. Bunch of Hypocritical Assholes.
He was banned for Life from Baseball...includes the hall. Sorry, I didnt make the rule or the judgement. I agree with the stats the guy had, he "only" bet on baseball, and should be in, but like I said Giamatti said: **** you Petey ol' boy.[/quote]
He was banned for life for something he was proven to have done "after" his playing days were over.
**** the MLB HOF. Bunch of Hypocritical Assholes.
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[quote name="E Runs"]
Did Savard win a Cup here?[/quote]
And how many games did Savard play with each of his respective teams? How much of his career was with the 'Hawks? What type of impact did Savard have with the team?
Just some additional questions to ask oneself and how similar questions apply to Chelios.
IMO, Savard had a much larger impact to the 'Hawks and far more of his career was with the 'Hawks. To me this makes him more of a player to have his # retired by the 'Hawks over Chelios.
Did Savard win a Cup here?[/quote]
And how many games did Savard play with each of his respective teams? How much of his career was with the 'Hawks? What type of impact did Savard have with the team?
Just some additional questions to ask oneself and how similar questions apply to Chelios.
IMO, Savard had a much larger impact to the 'Hawks and far more of his career was with the 'Hawks. To me this makes him more of a player to have his # retired by the 'Hawks over Chelios.
bubbleheadchief
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[quote name="R K"]
He was banned for life for something he was proven to have done "after" his playing days were over.
**** the MLB HOF. Bunch of Hypocritical Assholes.[/quote]
He was suspected of it during his playing days too RK, you and I are of close age, you have to remember the stories. Although not quite as vehement as you, okay no where near the hatred as you RK, my problem with the MLB HoF is the fact they play the "Well we elected you in, therefore you will go in as a......." They decide whose hat you are wearing. Yes it is an honor being bestowed upon you, but shit you should decide which hat you are wearing.
He was banned for life for something he was proven to have done "after" his playing days were over.
**** the MLB HOF. Bunch of Hypocritical Assholes.[/quote]
He was suspected of it during his playing days too RK, you and I are of close age, you have to remember the stories. Although not quite as vehement as you, okay no where near the hatred as you RK, my problem with the MLB HoF is the fact they play the "Well we elected you in, therefore you will go in as a......." They decide whose hat you are wearing. Yes it is an honor being bestowed upon you, but shit you should decide which hat you are wearing.
E Runs
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[quote name="BiscuitintheBasket"]
And how many games did Savard play with each of his respective teams? How much of his career was with the 'Hawks? What type of impact did Savard have with the team?
Just some additional questions to ask oneself and how similar questions apply to Chelios.
IMO, Savard had a much larger impact to the 'Hawks and far more of his career was with the 'Hawks. To me this makes him more of a player to have his # retired by the 'Hawks over Savard.[/quote]
40% of Chelios' career was played with the Hawks, more than anywhere else, and I'd say his impact was huge: 2 Norris Trophies, Captain, AllStar, etc.
And how many games did Savard play with each of his respective teams? How much of his career was with the 'Hawks? What type of impact did Savard have with the team?
Just some additional questions to ask oneself and how similar questions apply to Chelios.
IMO, Savard had a much larger impact to the 'Hawks and far more of his career was with the 'Hawks. To me this makes him more of a player to have his # retired by the 'Hawks over Savard.[/quote]
40% of Chelios' career was played with the Hawks, more than anywhere else, and I'd say his impact was huge: 2 Norris Trophies, Captain, AllStar, etc.
bubbleheadchief
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[quote name="E Runs"]
40% of Chelios' career was played with the Hawks, more than anywhere else, and I'd say his impact was huge: 2 Norris Trophies, Captain, AllStar, etc.[/quote]
Granted, but if you ask any hockey fan outside of Chicago, is he remembered as a hawk or a hab????? No, he is remembered as a Red Wang.
40% of Chelios' career was played with the Hawks, more than anywhere else, and I'd say his impact was huge: 2 Norris Trophies, Captain, AllStar, etc.[/quote]
Granted, but if you ask any hockey fan outside of Chicago, is he remembered as a hawk or a hab????? No, he is remembered as a Red Wang.
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[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]
He was suspected of it during his playing days too RK, you and I are of close age, you have to remember the stories. Although not quite as vehement as you, okay no where near the hatred as you RK, my problem with the MLB HoF is the fact they play the "Well we elected you in, therefore you will go in as a......." They decide whose hat you are wearing. Yes it is an honor being bestowed upon you, but shit you should decide which hat you are wearing.[/quote]
Oh yea. I have not much respect for the HOF election/selection, nor some of it's members, IE Joe Asshole Morgan.
That said I remember, but they were stories. He payed for his crimes and owns one of those records that will never be broken. He should be in the HOF.
He was suspected of it during his playing days too RK, you and I are of close age, you have to remember the stories. Although not quite as vehement as you, okay no where near the hatred as you RK, my problem with the MLB HoF is the fact they play the "Well we elected you in, therefore you will go in as a......." They decide whose hat you are wearing. Yes it is an honor being bestowed upon you, but shit you should decide which hat you are wearing.[/quote]
Oh yea. I have not much respect for the HOF election/selection, nor some of it's members, IE Joe Asshole Morgan.
That said I remember, but they were stories. He payed for his crimes and owns one of those records that will never be broken. He should be in the HOF.
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[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]
Granted, but if you ask any hockey fan outside of Chicago, is he remembered as a hawk or a hab????? No, he is remembered as a Red Wang.[/quote]
Yup, and should retire as such.
So you say 40% more Eruns, and then question Savard who spent nearly 90% as a Hawk?
Chelios = Great Player
Chelios = Chicago HOF, not a chance.
Granted, but if you ask any hockey fan outside of Chicago, is he remembered as a hawk or a hab????? No, he is remembered as a Red Wang.[/quote]
Yup, and should retire as such.
So you say 40% more Eruns, and then question Savard who spent nearly 90% as a Hawk?
Chelios = Great Player
Chelios = Chicago HOF, not a chance.
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[quote name="R K"]
Yup, and should retire as such.
So you say 40% more Eruns, and then question Savard who spent nearly 90% as a Hawk?
Chelios = Great Player
Chelios = Chicago HOF, not a chance.[/quote]
Just to play devil's advocate, as this does beg the question: If Chelios only played 2-3 years with the Wings, would the disposition be different with retiring Cheli's #?
Yup, and should retire as such.
So you say 40% more Eruns, and then question Savard who spent nearly 90% as a Hawk?
Chelios = Great Player
Chelios = Chicago HOF, not a chance.[/quote]
Just to play devil's advocate, as this does beg the question: If Chelios only played 2-3 years with the Wings, would the disposition be different with retiring Cheli's #?
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Here's a scenario and my vote is no:
Everyone is angry with how Chelios left the Hawks to go to Detroit.
What about when Bobby Hull left Chicago for the WHA?
Everyone is angry with how Chelios left the Hawks to go to Detroit.
What about when Bobby Hull left Chicago for the WHA?
CLWolf81
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[quote name="BiscuitintheBasket"]Just to play devil's advocate, as this does beg the question: If Chelios only played 2-3 years with the Wings, would the disposition be different with retiring Cheli's #?[/quote]
The fact is... He didn't... He played more than 3 years .... AND he joined the Wings front office. What's done is done. He made his grave. Let him lie in it.
Now, to figure in your conceptual question here... lets say he only played 2-3 years.... wouldn't matter. He still fueled the fire by joining the Wangs after his false promises took effect.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." You know that line, right? I'm sure that's how you guys all felt when Chelios decided to join the Wangs after what he said. For that reason alone, I'm sure a lot of you were angry about it at the time.
The fact is... He didn't... He played more than 3 years .... AND he joined the Wings front office. What's done is done. He made his grave. Let him lie in it.
Now, to figure in your conceptual question here... lets say he only played 2-3 years.... wouldn't matter. He still fueled the fire by joining the Wangs after his false promises took effect.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." You know that line, right? I'm sure that's how you guys all felt when Chelios decided to join the Wangs after what he said. For that reason alone, I'm sure a lot of you were angry about it at the time.
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[quote name="CLWolf81"]
The fact is... He didn't... He played more than 3 years .... AND he joined the Wings front office. What's done is done. He made his grave. Let him lie in it.
Now, to figure in your conceptual question here... lets say he only played 2-3 years.... wouldn't matter. He still fueled the fire by joining the Wangs after his false promises took effect.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." You know that line, right? I'm sure that's how you guys all felt when Chelios decided to join the Wangs after what he said. For that reason alone, I'm sure a lot of you were angry about it at the time.[/quote]
Just to be be clear I do not support retiring his number. Just throwing the hypothetical out there as it seems that a sticking point is that he went to the wings in his late 30's. Just checking to see if the disposition changes if his time with the wings was pretty short.
The fact is... He didn't... He played more than 3 years .... AND he joined the Wings front office. What's done is done. He made his grave. Let him lie in it.
Now, to figure in your conceptual question here... lets say he only played 2-3 years.... wouldn't matter. He still fueled the fire by joining the Wangs after his false promises took effect.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." You know that line, right? I'm sure that's how you guys all felt when Chelios decided to join the Wangs after what he said. For that reason alone, I'm sure a lot of you were angry about it at the time.[/quote]
Just to be be clear I do not support retiring his number. Just throwing the hypothetical out there as it seems that a sticking point is that he went to the wings in his late 30's. Just checking to see if the disposition changes if his time with the wings was pretty short.
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