So Pace rebuilt the offensive line

nc0gnet0

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Imagine believing that Goff lead his team to a Superbowl. That's like saying Grossman lead his team. Goff was effectively benched for an UDFA QB late last year
So the pro-bowls were a figment of my imagination? And yet Goff would hold the top two spots on the Bears for passing yards in a season. When was the last time the Bears had a QB that passed for over 4500 yds? That would be never.
 

nc0gnet0

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Easily Monty……no questions about it.
Care to make a wager who has better stats at the end of the year? Do you really think I care that you have your little dislike sprees with my posts? Your like a silly little child.
 

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Where else would I go to witness first hand the infamous Remy vortex? Your just butt hurt because you lost the debate about faster than light travel.

nanew nanew
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You certainly know how to make yourself look stupid…..that is one thing you do well….Dumbass
 

nc0gnet0

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You certainly know how to make yourself look stupid…..that is one thing you do well….Dumbass
LOL, keep the negs coming, I love it when I know I am inside your head. You don't get it do you dumbass, to a troll a dislike is a badge of honor.

And I see you didn't take me up on my wager, not only are you stupid, but your a chicken as well.
 

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The question was only a comparison of the respective offenses, The reason you finished ahead in the division was a little bit of luck, and the fact the Lions D sucked ass. And this year the Bears D will regress even further, having lost their best CB while retaining Jimmy G (still a head scratcher to me), and quite possibly further regression from Hicks/Mack/Quinn.

I think that you're going to be disappointed in Goff and as good as Sewel likely is, will regret taking him instead of Fields.

I don't think its quite that simple. Any regret on this would largely be dependent on how the eventual QB the Lions do draft in 2022 or 2023 pans out.
No, you began this saying the Lions would beat the Bears at least once.
 

bamainatlanta

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So the pro-bowls were a figment of my imagination? And yet Goff would hold the top two spots on the Bears for passing yards in a season. When was the last time the Bears had a QB that passed for over 4500 yds? That would be never.
Lmao. Bridgewater and Trubisky both made PB's
 

remydat

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QB - Goff has proven he cant carry a team so I take Fields 100% for 2021 simply because he has the potential to surpass Goff especially given the shit targets Goff has and with Goff losing McVay.

Consensus opinion is the Bears needed a QB to be a SB contender. That is what was holding them back. Yet Goff has taking the Rams to the SB, has two pro-bowls under his belt, and a winning record in the playoffs. He has two seasons with over 4600 yards under his belt. So which is it? You can't have it both ways. I am not a huge Goff fan, but projecting a first year rookie to play better is nonsense. if your talking more long term upside with Fields, I will give you that. Fields could be Mahomes 2.0 or Trubisky 2.0 only time will tell. Dalton and Foles are ass. If your asking me what Qb I want for the next 4 years I am taking Fields. If you ask me what Qb I think will do better in 2021, it will be Goff.

RB - Monty had an 80.2 grade and Swift had a 69.2. So the answer here is Monty.

I respectfully disagree. It was Swifts rookie season and he played better as a rookie than Monty. Has more ability and will be playing behind a much better O-line than Monty, in an offense that will now be much more focused on the run. nagy can't call a run game to save his ass, either.

WR1 - ARob 88.2 is so much better than the guys in Det as neither has a 70 grade.

I gave you this one already, but we will see how many career decisions Arob makes playing under the tag with no long term contract in place.

WR 2 - Mooney has a higher grade than any WR on the Lions.

Be curious to see who has a better year, him or Perriman. This one is closer than you think.

WR3 - I guess pick the best WR on the Lions and they are better than Miller but the problem is the Lions top 3 WRs are closer to Miller than they are to ARob in terms of grades. The Lions basically have 3 Millers at WR while the Bears only have 1 plus ARob and Mooney.

Miller is straight up ass. I would wager the Lions rookie will have better stats than him this year.

TE - Hock but as Hock did in his 2nd year, this could easily become a push if Kmet takes a step in his 2nd year as TEs are often capable of doing.

And Hock could easily take another step forward making him a top 5 TE. Giving the current situation I say that is as much likely, if not more so, than your scenario.

LT - Decker but how big a gap this is right now is unknowable as depends on how ready Jenkins is.

A pro bowl LT vs a 2nd rnd rookie that has never played LT? it's not even close here.

LG - Whitehair has a 75 grade and Jackson was 57 so advantage goes to Whitehair until Jackson can show he has taken a leap. If he takes a step in his 2nd year then like with Kmet this gap can close.

Fair enough but if you look at Jackson's last 8 starts vs his first 8, then you can get a much more favorable comparison. I really did not know where to line Daniels up, TBH.

RT - If this is Ifedi or Borom then you go with Sewell here regardless given Sewell's potential.

C - This goes to Ragnow no matter who the C for the Bears is.

RG - Whether it is Daniels or Ifedi they both graded out better than Vaitai who had a 59 grade. Daniels was 65 and Ifedi was also 65 so either is a better option than Vaitai. Even of it is Borom he simply has more upside here than Vaitai.


Vatia played injured last year, plus a portion was at RT, which was a stupid idea. He slots back into the RG position this year and as such you should use his 2019 rating of 72.8.


so it's not even close.

The issue is the Lions really have no real promise at the areas where they have huge question marks ie WR while the Bears have promise at their questionable spots.

Perriman, while the chances are slim, could have a re-start to his career. They also picked up a nice rookie in the 4th, and have enough cap to sign another WR should one become available.

If Fields is the real deal and Jenkins holds down left tackle then the Bears stand to be much better on offense. Meanwhile the Lions WRs are complete ass and Goff is likely to regress outside of McVay's QB friendly system.

Projections that start of with two IFS are ass. If teams blitz the Lions a lot there is still TJ that will eat them alive, as well as Swift. And for all the concern at WR for the Lions, they have a lot of speed at the position.


There really is little to no avenue for that team to be good on O unless that OL becomes an all time great OL depsite Jackson and Vatai being mediocre at this point.

Except Vaitai is not mediocre when he slips back into his natural position (overpaid yes) and is not playing on an injured ankle. If Jackson plays just at a level like he did to close the season, your projections here are way off. The point of the matter is there are a lot less things to have to happen for the Lions O to be competent than for the same to be true with the Bears.

One injury to the Bears O-line or if Jenkins doesn't work at LT, the whole thing comes crashing down like a house of cards.

Lol all you have done is ignored PFF grades when higher for Bears and taken as Gospel when lower.

Case in point. Monty had a similar grade as Swift as a rookie as did Kmet and Hock. Yet you want to assume Kmet cant have a similar jump in year 2 as Hock because Hock will continue to improve. Yet you think the NFL's 5th leading rusher behind a bad OL will not improve and Swift will catch him up.

Sorry it is just biased. Kmet and Swift were rookies. Monty and Hock both took jumps in their 2nd year. There really is no objective argument for declaring Swift can surpass Monty but Kmet will stay behind Hock besides blind homerism. You are projecting for potential based solely on whether the players is a Lion or a Bear.

As for Vaitai, you are magically assuming a guy that had a terrible year and was injured just comes back and returns to form. Maybe he will but until he does then it is again a bit og homerism to assume so. It is also laughable to claim this is not close as if a 72 grade and 65 grade is that far apart. Again essentially all you do is give the Lions player every benefit of the doubt.

Goff was shit without McVay and McVay thought so much of him that he gave the Lions a first rounder to dump him. So my position is based solely on McVay's evaluation which I trust more than yours. In addition if the Lions actually believed Goff was a good QB without McVay they would not have been able to get a first rounder for him. So both the Lions and Rams are telling us that Goff is done. Sorry.

As for Decker pro bowl or not his grade us 80. It is not inconceivable for Jenkins to get a 70-80 grade. Leno for example got a 70 grade so if he is better than Leno then no it will not be that far off from Decker. Again I am using PFF to try and be objective here. Having said that I still gave the edge to the Lions so not sure the point of crying. It is a factual statement to say we simply dont know how the rookies will produce but Jenkins had a first round grade by many so there is nothing crazy about thinking he can improve on Leno.

Can Perriman improve? Sure. But when a 5th round rookie has already graded out ahead of a 5 year guy it is again a bit of homerism to think the 5th year guy has as much chance of getting better as a 2nd year guy.

Also we are talking the current players on the team and the fact you are saying the Lions can pick up a WR is again just homerism. The point is they havent so to bring it up is just silly. Your whole analysis is filled with bias.
 
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remydat

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Lmao. Bridgewater and Trubisky both made PB's

It is like he doesnt conceptually understand that if McVay or the Lions thought he was still a PB QB then the Rams would not have given up a first to get rid of him and wouls not have benched him for Wolford.

NCog wants us to think he knows more than than McVay and the Lions. In fact if anyone in the NFL thought Goff was a PB QB then the Rams would have traded Goff for a top pick rather than beg the Lions to take him.

Trubs QB rating last year 93.5. Goff 90. But Goff is a Pro Bowl QB, LMFAO. Dude couldnt beat out John Wolford and had a worse passer rating than Trubs but Ncog would take him over Justin Fields. SMH!
 
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MikeDitkaPolishSausage

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LOL, keep the negs coming, I love it when I know I am inside your head. You don't get it do you dumbass, to a troll a dislike is a badge of honor.

And I see you didn't take me up on my wager, not only are you stupid, but your a chicken as well.
You call someone else a silly little child and then post something like this? Like I’ve said before about you…..You aren’t even a troll. You are a joke and a laughing stock. We have legit Bears fans on this website who are better “trolls” than you are. You do not get into anyone’s heads, but keep thinking you do!
 

nc0gnet0

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Lol all you have done is ignored PFF grades when higher for Bears and taken as Gospel when lower.

Case in point. Monty had a similar grade as Swift as a rookie as did Kmet and Hock. Yet you want to assume Kmet cant have a similar jump in year 2 as Hock because Hock will continue to improve. Yet you think the NFL's 5th leading rusher behind a bad OL will not improve and Swift will catch him up.

Sorry it is just biased. Kmet and Swift were rookies. Monty and Hock both took jumps in their 2nd year. There really is no objective argument for declaring Swift can surpass Monty but Kmet will stay behind Hock besides blind homerism. You are projecting for potential based solely on whether the players is a Lion or a Bear.

As for Vaitai, you are magically assuming a guy that had a terrible year and was injured just comes back and returns to form. Maybe he will but until he does then it is again a bit og homerism to assume so. It is also laughable to claim this is not close as if a 72 grade and 65 grade is that far apart. Again essentially all you do is give the Lions player every benefit of the doubt.

Goff was shit without McVay and McVay thought so much of him that he gave the Lions a first rounder to dump him. So my position is based solely on McVay's evaluation which I trust more than yours. In addition if the Lions actually believed Goff was a good QB without McVay they would not have been able to get a first rounder for him. So both the Lions and Rams are telling us that Goff is done. Sorry.

As for Decker pro bowl or not his grade us 80. It is not inconceivable for Jenkins to get a 70-80 grade. Leno for example got a 70 grade so if he is better than Leno then no it will not be that far off from Decker. Again I am using PFF to try and be objective here. Having said that I still gave the edge to the Lions so not sure the point of crying. It is a factual statement to say we simply dont know how the rookies will produce but Jenkins had a first round grade by many so there is nothing crazy about thinking he can improve on Leno.

Can Perriman improve? Sure. But when a 5th round rookie has already graded out ahead of a 5 year guy it is again a bit of homerism to think the 5th year guy has as much chance of getting better as a 2nd year guy.

Also we are talking the current players on the team and the fact you are saying the Lions can pick up a WR is again just homerism. The point is they havent so to bring it up is just silly. Your whole analysis is filled with bias.
No, I am taking PFF grades for positions that they are expected to play in 2021. Why would you use a pff grade for Vatai when he played RT a portion of last year, when he most certainly will be play RG this season?

Case in point. Monty had a similar grade as Swift as a rookie as did Kmet and Hock. Yet you want to assume Kmet cant have a similar jump in year 2 as Hock because Hock will continue to improve. Yet you think the NFL's 5th leading rusher behind a bad OL will not improve and Swift will catch him up.

Monty is a ho hum run of the mill back that got a lot of carries because he played with QB's that could not hit the broad side of a barn even when their life depended on it. We will find out soon enough what the rest of the fans thinks of each when we see which is projected higher in fantasy drafts. Kmet was never projected as a first round talent so I don't know what the **** your talking about. If Nagy thinks so highly of him, what the flying **** is Jimmy Graham still doing on the roster? On any other board but this one you would be laughed right off of it for making the statement you think Kmet will be as good as Hock. Of course Kmet could improve, the point is even if he does, Hock will improve this year too, and the gap won't close as much as your suggesting. Again, who will be rated higher in fantasy?

As for Vaitai, you are magically assuming a guy that had a terrible year and was injured just comes back and returns to form. Maybe he will but until he does then it is again a bit og homerism to assume so. It is also laughable to claim this is not close as if a 72 grade and 65 grade is that far apart. Again essentially all you do is give the Lions player every benefit of the doubt.

This argument is so bad you should be embarrassed. Projecting Vaitai to return to form when playing his natural position, without injury is a lot more probable that projecting a rookie QB that has never taken a snap in the NFL, A rookie 2nd round O-lineman to play LT, a position he has never played before, or a second year TE to take the next step, because at least Vaitia has performed at that level before. And your doing the same dam thing with half your O-line after the musical chairs 2020 at center.

Goff was shit without McVay and McVay thought so much of him that he gave the Lions a first rounder to dump him. So my position is based solely on McVay's evaluation which I trust more than yours. In addition if the Lions actually believed Goff was a good QB without McVay they would not have been able to get a first rounder for him. So both the Lions and Rams are telling us that Goff is done. Sorry.

LOL, Trubusky was shit with Nagy. He can't coach up a Qb to save his ass. He has no fucking clue how to draw up a game plan to suit his QB's skill set, and now your just hoping by the thinnest of threads Fields is the perfect fit in what-ever-the-**** Nagy's system is. And I was totally unaware that McVay had offered an opinion on who would be better in 2021, Goff or Dalton, but if he thought so highly of Dalton, why didn't he just save the draft capital and sign him? The only thing you have proven by this is he thought Staff was better than Goff, so you have proved absolutely nothing.......again. The simple fact here is Goff has posted better passing yard stats then any Bears QB...ever!

Also we are talking the current players on the team and the fact you are saying the Lions can pick up a WR is again just homerism. The point is they havent so to bring it up is just silly. Your whole analysis is filled with bias.

I am saying the Lions still have cap, the Bears do not. That is a fact.
 
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bamainatlanta

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No, I am taking PFF grades for positions that they are expected to play in 2021. Why would you use a pff grade for Vatai when he played RT a portion of last year, when he most certainly will be play RG this season?

Case in point. Monty had a similar grade as Swift as a rookie as did Kmet and Hock. Yet you want to assume Kmet cant have a similar jump in year 2 as Hock because Hock will continue to improve. Yet you think the NFL's 5th leading rusher behind a bad OL will not improve and Swift will catch him up.

Monty is a ho hum run of the mill back that got a lot of carries because he played with QB's that could not hit the broad side of a barn even when their life depended on it. We will find out soon enough what the rest of the fans thinks of each when we see which is projected higher in fantasy drafts. Kmet was never projected as a first round talent so I don't know what the **** your talking about. On any other board but this one you would be laughed right off of it for making the statment you think Kmet will be as good as Hock. Again, who will be rated higher in fantasy?

As for Vaitai, you are magically assuming a guy that had a terrible year and was injured just comes back and returns to form. Maybe he will but until he does then it is again a bit og homerism to assume so. It is also laughable to claim this is not close as if a 72 grade and 65 grade is that far apart. Again essentially all you do is give the Lions player every benefit of the doubt.

This argument is so bad you should be embarrassed. Projecting Vaitai to return to form when playing his natural position, without injury is a lot more probable that projecting rookie QB that has never taken a snap in the NFL, or a second year TE to take the next step, because at least Vaitia has performed at that level before. And your doing the same dam thing with half your O-line after the musical chairs 2020 at center.

Goff was shit without McVay and McVay thought so much of him that he gave the Lions a first rounder to dump him. So my position is based solely on McVay's evaluation which I trust more than yours. In addition if the Lions actually believed Goff was a good QB without McVay they would not have been able to get a first rounder for him. So both the Lions and Rams are telling us that Goff is done. Sorry.

LOL, Trubusky was shit with Nagy. He can't coach up a Qb to save his ass. He has no fucking clue how to draw up a game plan to suit his QB's skill set, and now your just hoping by the thinnest of threads Fields is the perfect fit in what-ever-the-**** Nagy's system is. And I was totally unaware that McVay had offered an opinion on who would be better in 2021, Goff or Dalton, but if he thought so highly of Dalton, why did'nt he just save the draft capital and sign him? The only thing you have proven by this is he thought Staff was better than Goff, so you have proved absolutely nothing.......again. The simple fact here is Goff has posted better passing yard stats then any Bears QB...ever!

Also we are talking the current players on the team and the fact you are saying the Lions can pick up a WR is again just homerism. The point is they havent so to bring it up is just silly. Your whole analysis is filled with bias.

I am saying the Lions still have cap, the Bears do not. That is a fact.

And you have very little talent. The last we cared to see of Swift he was dropping game winning TD's.
 

nc0gnet0

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And you have very little talent. The last we cared to see of Swift he was dropping game winning TD's.
Yes and how many Mooney highlights have I seen where he doesn't even get thrown the dam ball? BTW, Swift has a better YPC stat, higher catch rate, and higher YPT rate than Monty. Each has 8 touchdowns for 2021.
 

nc0gnet0

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And you have very little talent. The last we cared to see of Swift he was dropping game winning TD's.
yup, you were one dropped pass by a rookie RB away from getting swept from the shit lions. Congrats on that.
 

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So the pro-bowls were a figment of my imagination? And yet Goff would hold the top two spots on the Bears for passing yards in a season. When was the last time the Bears had a QB that passed for over 4500 yds? That would be never.
This isn't the own that you think it is. Its actually really fucking dumb. Now compare his numbers with franchises who have had real QBs.

Also, Mitch Trubisky made a pro-bowl.
 

remydat

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No, I am taking PFF grades for positions that they are expected to play in 2021. Why would you use a pff grade for Vatai when he played RT a portion of last year, when he most certainly will be play RG this season?

Case in point. Monty had a similar grade as Swift as a rookie as did Kmet and Hock. Yet you want to assume Kmet cant have a similar jump in year 2 as Hock because Hock will continue to improve. Yet you think the NFL's 5th leading rusher behind a bad OL will not improve and Swift will catch him up.

Monty is a ho hum run of the mill back that got a lot of carries because he played with QB's that could not hit the broad side of a barn even when their life depended on it. We will find out soon enough what the rest of the fans thinks of each when we see which is projected higher in fantasy drafts. Kmet was never projected as a first round talent so I don't know what the **** your talking about. If Nagy thinks so highly of him, what the flying **** is Jimmy Graham still doing on the roster? On any other board but this one you would be laughed right off of it for making the statement you think Kmet will be as good as Hock. Again, who will be rated higher in fantasy?

As for Vaitai, you are magically assuming a guy that had a terrible year and was injured just comes back and returns to form. Maybe he will but until he does then it is again a bit og homerism to assume so. It is also laughable to claim this is not close as if a 72 grade and 65 grade is that far apart. Again essentially all you do is give the Lions player every benefit of the doubt.

This argument is so bad you should be embarrassed. Projecting Vaitai to return to form when playing his natural position, without injury is a lot more probable that projecting a rookie QB that has never taken a snap in the NFL, A rookie 2nd round O-lineman to play LT, a position he has never played before, or a second year TE to take the next step, because at least Vaitia has performed at that level before. And your doing the same dam thing with half your O-line after the musical chairs 2020 at center.

Goff was shit without McVay and McVay thought so much of him that he gave the Lions a first rounder to dump him. So my position is based solely on McVay's evaluation which I trust more than yours. In addition if the Lions actually believed Goff was a good QB without McVay they would not have been able to get a first rounder for him. So both the Lions and Rams are telling us that Goff is done. Sorry.

LOL, Trubusky was shit with Nagy. He can't coach up a Qb to save his ass. He has no fucking clue how to draw up a game plan to suit his QB's skill set, and now your just hoping by the thinnest of threads Fields is the perfect fit in what-ever-the-**** Nagy's system is. And I was totally unaware that McVay had offered an opinion on who would be better in 2021, Goff or Dalton, but if he thought so highly of Dalton, why didn't he just save the draft capital and sign him? The only thing you have proven by this is he thought Staff was better than Goff, so you have proved absolutely nothing.......again. The simple fact here is Goff has posted better passing yard stats then any Bears QB...ever!

Also we are talking the current players on the team and the fact you are saying the Lions can pick up a WR is again just homerism. The point is they havent so to bring it up is just silly. Your whole analysis is filled with bias.

I am saying the Lions still have cap, the Bears do not. That is a fact.

1. The majority of Vaitai snaps were at RG. 282 vs 168. Ifedi played RG and RT too for parts of the year. Further Vaitai has had one year with a grade higher than 70. You are acting like he is a consistent performer. He has been average to below average for most of his career outside of 2019.

2. Monty was top 10 in rushing yards as well as top 10 in PFF grade. Swift was 36th. Ho hum my ass.

3. Kmet was a 2nd rounder that graded out similiarly to Hock in his rookie year. That is simply a fact. Graham is still here because like Hock he is a move TE. Kmet is an inline TE. So we are still left with the fact you are biased. You are trying to pretend Swift will easily catch a top 10 RB in yards and grades while pretending Kmet has no chance to catch Hock when the reality is the gap between Monty and Swift is similar to the gap between TJ and Kmet. You may end up right but it is entirely a homer evaluation.

4. Jenkins played LT in college. Your facts are wrong. He played RT this past year because the RT got hurt and the backup who also happened to be his GF's brother was more comfortable at LT so he moved to RT to make it easier on his potential future brother in law.

5. Nagy sucks and yet Trubs still had a better passer rating in his shitty system than Goff who is in one of the most QB friendly systems in the NFL. So that just tell me Goff sucks hence why again McVay benched him for Wolford and gave up a 1st rounder to get rid of him. There is nothing you can say to put lipstick on that pig. Goff performed worse in a better system with better players and now is going to a situation without McVay and absolute shit WRs.

6. Whether they have the cap is irrelevant. You are literally trying to make things seem better for the Lions at WR by projecting they sign a currently mythical WR. The facts are cap space cant catch passes on the field. Until they sign someone, your argument here is stupid.
 
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nc0gnet0

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This isn't the own that you think it is. Its actually really fucking dumb. Now compare his numbers with franchises who have had real QBs.

Also, Mitch Trubisky made a pro-bowl.
The only reason Trubisky made the pro-bowl was he replaced Goff because Goff was playing in the Superbowl, so ouch again.
 

nc0gnet0

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1. The majority of Vaitai snaps were at RG. 282 vs 168. Ifedi played RG and RT too for parts of the year. Further Vaitai has had one year with a grade higher than 70. You are acting like he is a consistent performer. He has been average to below average for most of his career outside of 2019.

2. Monty was top 10 in rushing yards as well as top 10 in PFF grade. Swift was 36th. Ho hum my ass.

3. Kmet was a 2nd rounder that graded out similiarly to Hock in his rookie year. That is simply a fact. Graham is still here because like Hock he is a move TE. Kmet is an inline TE. So we are still left with the fact you are biased. You are trying to pretend Swift will easily catch a top 10 RB in yards and grades while pretending Kmet has no chance to catch Hock when the reality is the gap between Monty and Swift is similar to the gap between TJ and Kmet. You may end up right but it is entirely a homer evaluation.

4. Jenkins played LT in college. Your facts are wrong. He played RT this past year because the RT got hurt and the backup who also happened to be his GF's brother was more comfortable at LT so he moved to RT to make it easier on his potential future brother in law.

5. Nagy sucks and yet Trubs still had a better passer rating in his shitty system than Goff who is in one of the most QB friendly systems in the NFL. So that just tell me Goff sucks hence why again McVay benched him for Wolford and gave up a 1st rounder to get rid of him. There is nothing you can say to put lipstick on that pig. Goff performed worse in a better system with better players and now is going to a situation without McVay and absolute shit WRs.

6. Whether they have the cap is irrelevant. You are literally trying to make things seem better for the Lions at WR by projecting they sign a currently mythical WR. The facts are cap space cant catch passes on the field. Until they sign someone, your argument here is stupid.

Monty is as much a product of his opportunities as he is his talent. Given the same number of carries Swift>Monty. End of story. All the stats support this. You lose.
 
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