So Pace rebuilt the offensive line

[Bearly]

Meh. they will still beat the Bears at least once.

We're raising the bar while the Lions have taken on ballast.

 

[Enasic]

Daniels sucked at C too. Him and Whitehair need to stay at OG. They can't be this stupid can they?

Nah, not the bears..

 

[nc0gnet0]

You are full of shit. The post you are quoting was 32 in this thread and was referencing depth. It was answered in the very next post 33.

Your post was 87 ie 57 posts later and had nothing to do with the question of depth as you focused just on how good the starters are. Even above you are focused on how good the starters are as you are saying only one guy would start in the Lions from the Bears. So your comment has nothing to do with depth.

You also did not quote Wazzupi so there is nothing from your post that makes it clear you were addressing his post. Your post just appeared as a random plug from a Lions fan desperate to have something good to say about his team to Bears fans.

After all this time I still have no clue who the depth is behind the starters that would address the question about depth as you only offered up Crosby. A single guy does not address the depth question.

So tell me, With the exception of Robinson, who on the Bears O would you start over the Lions offensive counterpart in 2021?

Goff or Dalton/Fields ? ( I get that Fields has possible future upside, but I am speaking of 2021 numbers)
Swift or Monty?
Hockenson or Kmet?
Decker or Jenkins
Jackson or Whitehair?
Ragnow or Mustipher?
Daniels or Vatai? (Daniels has never played Right guard)
Sewel or Bars/5th round rookie

I will give you two of the three WR's but Ant Mill is straight up ass.

so it goes like this.

If Fields can come in right away as a rookie and be better than Dalton (low bar here)
If Jenkins can come in and be an effective starter at LT (not his natural position)
if Kmet continues to improve
If Daniels can play right guard plus recover from injury
If a 5th round rookie can play RT
If Whitehair stops sucking ass
if ant Mill finally catches the ball and runs the right routes

that's a lot of if's just to get the bears to a middle of the pack offense.

 

[remydat]

So tell me, With the exception of Robinson, who on the Bears O would you start over the Lions offensive counterpart in 2021?

Goff or Dalton/Fields ? ( I get that Fields has possible future upside, but I am speaking of 2021 numbers)
Swift or Monty?
Hockenson or Kmet?
Decker or Jenkins
Jackson or Whitehair?
Ragnow or Mustipher?
Daniels or Vatai? (Daniels has never played Right guard)
Sewel or Bars/5th round rookie

I will give you two of the three WR's but Ant Mill is straight up ass.

so it goes like this.

If Fields can come in right away as a rookie and be better than Dalton (low bar here)
If Jenkins can come in and be an effective starter at LT (not his natural position)
if Kmet continues to improve
If Daniels can play right guard plus recover from injury
If a 5th round rookie can play RT
If Whitehair stops sucking ass
if ant Mill finally catches the ball and runs the right routes

that's a lot of if's just to get the bears to a middle of the pack offense.

Excuse me sir but the topic was OL depth. Not sure how we got to now discussing the whole offense. Like I was saying your post was not actually on topic.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Excuse me sir but the topic was OL depth. Not sure how we got to now discussing the whole offense. Like I was saying your post was not actually on topic.

Ok, Crosby, a Lions offensive depth player, would be penciled in as an immediate starter on the Bears O-line at RT.

 

[remydat]

Ok, Crosby, a Lions offensive depth player, would be penciled in as an immediate starter on the Bears O-line at RT.

Objectively speaking, Ifedi graded out higher than Crosby at RT so no he would not be penciled in as an immediate starter at RT. 65.6 vs 64.2. He would compete at RT but no means penciled in.

 

[remydat]

So tell me, With the exception of Robinson, who on the Bears O would you start over the Lions offensive counterpart in 2021?

Goff or Dalton/Fields ? ( I get that Fields has possible future upside, but I am speaking of 2021 numbers)
Swift or Monty?
Hockenson or Kmet?
Decker or Jenkins
Jackson or Whitehair?
Ragnow or Mustipher?
Daniels or Vatai? (Daniels has never played Right guard)
Sewel or Bars/5th round rookie

I will give you two of the three WR's but Ant Mill is straight up ass.

so it goes like this.

If Fields can come in right away as a rookie and be better than Dalton (low bar here)
If Jenkins can come in and be an effective starter at LT (not his natural position)
if Kmet continues to improve
If Daniels can play right guard plus recover from injury
If a 5th round rookie can play RT
If Whitehair stops sucking ass
if ant Mill finally catches the ball and runs the right routes

that's a lot of if's just to get the bears to a middle of the pack offense.

So lets take a look at this.

QB - Goff has proven he cant carry a team so I take Fields 100% for 2021 simply because he has the potential to surpass Goff especially given the shit targets Goff has and with Goff losing McVay.

RB - Monty had an 80.2 grade and Swift had a 69.2. So the answer here is Mony.

WR1 - ARob 88.2 is so much better than the guys in Det as neither has a 70 grade.

WR 2 - Mooney has a higher grade than any WR on the Lions.

WR3 - I guess pick the best WR on the Lions and they are better than Miller but the problem is the Lions top 3 WRs are closer to Miller than they are to ARob in terms of grades. The Lions basically have 3 Millers at WR while the Bears only have 1 plus ARob and Mooney.

TE - Hock but as Hock did in his 2nd year, this could easily become a push if Kmet takes a step in his 2nd year as TEs are often capable of doing.

LT - Decker but how big a gap this is right now is unknowable as depends on how ready Jenkins is.

LG - Whitehair has a 75 grade and Jackson was 57 so advantage goes to Whitehair until Jackson can show he has taken a leap. If he takes a step in his 2nd year then like with Kmet this gap can close.

C - This goes to Ragnow no matter who the C for the Bears is.

RG - Whether it is Daniels or Ifedi they both graded out better than Vaitai who had a 59 grade. Daniels was 65 and Ifedi was also 65 so either is a better option than Vaitai. Even of it is Borom he simply has more upside here than Vaitai.

RT - If this is Ifedi or Borom then you go with Sewell here regardless given Sewell's potential.

The Bears are far superior at WR, clearly better at RB and while the Lions are better at far superior at T and C, while the Bears are better at G.

The issue is the Lions really have no real promise at the areas where they have huge question marks ie WR while the Bears have promise at their questionable spots.

If Fields is the real deal and Jenkins holds down left tackle then the Bears stand to be much better on offense. Meanwhile the Lions WRs are complete ass and Goff is likely to regress outside of McVay's QB friendly system.

If Goff is closer to Fisher Goff than McVay Goff then that O is fucked. It doesnt have the WRs or RBs to carry the team and Goff cant carry the team with such subpar weapons at WR.

There really is little to no avenue for that team to be good on O unless that OL becomes an all time great OL depsite Jackson and Vatai being mediocre at this point.

Finally I suspect teams will blitz the Lions a **** ton because Goff sucks under pressure and the WRs are so bad few teams will be concerned about the WRs beating their CBs consistently. So sending 6 for example basically forces the Lions to leave a guy unblocked negating the OL or keeping Hock or Swift in to block which reduces Goff's weapons further.

If I am the Bears I also blitz the interior where Lions are weakest and/or over Sewell and force Hock or a RB to pick up Mack.

 

[Myk]

I could see the bears doing something that stupid but I don’t think they will. Cody was one of the best LG in the league last season and they seem high on Mustipher. I think Daniels at C is more likely than Cody. My prediction:

Jenkins/Cody/Mustipher/Daniels/Ifedi

But I could also see:

Jenkins/Cody/Daniels/Borom/Ifedi (or flip Ifedi/Borom)

It would make more sense to use a 2nd rounder on a center who can actually be center. I'm not sure if Daniels sucking at calling assignments was terminal or if it was him being young. I would hope a center who called assignments in college could learn to do the same in the NFL.

 

[bamainatlanta]

So tell me, With the exception of Robinson, who on the Bears O would you start over the Lions offensive counterpart in 2021?

Goff or Dalton/Fields ? ( I get that Fields has possible future upside, but I am speaking of 2021 numbers)
Swift or Monty?
Hockenson or Kmet?
Decker or Jenkins
Jackson or Whitehair?
Ragnow or Mustipher?
Daniels or Vatai? (Daniels has never played Right guard)
Sewel or Bars/5th round rookie

I will give you two of the three WR's but Ant Mill is straight up ass.

so it goes like this.

If Fields can come in right away as a rookie and be better than Dalton (low bar here)
If Jenkins can come in and be an effective starter at LT (not his natural position)
if Kmet continues to improve
If Daniels can play right guard plus recover from injury
If a 5th round rookie can play RT
If Whitehair stops sucking ass
if ant Mill finally catches the ball and runs the right routes

that's a lot of if's just to get the bears to a middle of the pack offense.

Lmao. Whitehair was one of the better OG's in the league when he switched. Do you just make shit up?

 

[Enasic]

It would make more sense to use a 2nd rounder on a center who can actually be center. I'm not sure if Daniels sucking at calling assignments was terminal or if it was him being young. I would hope a center who called assignments in college could learn to do the same in the NFL.

Yeah it’s weird. Daniels was supposed to be the C when he was drafted. Struggled early with the mental side of it, but who knows…for a 2nd round pick he needs to start somewhere. C or RG most likely.

 

[Black Rainbow]

James Daniels is in a contract year...he's gotta ball our in '21 or be gone.

Time is flying by...

 

[nc0gnet0]

So lets take a look at this.

QB - Goff has proven he cant carry a team so I take Fields 100% for 2021 simply because he has the potential to surpass Goff especially given the shit targets Goff has and with Goff losing McVay.

RB - Monty had an 80.2 grade and Swift had a 69.2. So the answer here is Mony.

WR1 - ARob 88.2 is so much better than the guys in Det as neither has a 70 grade.

WR 2 - Mooney has a higher grade than any WR on the Lions.

WR3 - I guess pick the best WR on the Lions and they are better than Miller but the problem is the Lions top 3 WRs are closer to Miller than they are to ARob in terms of grades. The Lions basically have 3 Millers at WR while the Bears only have 1 plus ARob and Mooney. It will be interesting to see which of the two holds a higher position in the upcoming fantasy drafts.

TE - Hock but as Hock did in his 2nd year, this could easily become a push if Kmet takes a step in his 2nd year as TEs are often capable of doing.

LT - Decker but how big a gap this is right now is unknowable as depends on how ready Jenkins is.

LG - Whitehair has a 75 grade and Jackson was 57 so advantage goes to Whitehair until Jackson can show he has taken a leap. If he takes a step in his 2nd year then like with Kmet this gap can close.

C - This goes to Ragnow no matter who the C for the Bears is.

RG - Whether it is Daniels or Ifedi they both graded out better than Vaitai who had a 59 grade. Daniels was 65 and Ifedi was also 65 so either is a better option than Vaitai. Even of it is Borom he simply has more upside here than Vaitai.

RT - If this is Ifedi or Borom then you go with Sewell here regardless given Sewell's potential.

The Bears are far superior at WR, clearly better at RB and while the Lions are better at far superior at T and C, while the Bears are better at G.

The issue is the Lions really have no real promise at the areas where they have huge question marks ie WR while the Bears have promise at their questionable spots.

If Fields is the real deal and Jenkins holds down left tackle then the Bears stand to be much better on offense. Meanwhile the Lions WRs are complete ass and Goff is likely to regress outside of McVay's QB friendly system.

If Goff is closer to Fisher Goff than McVay Goff then that O is fucked. It doesnt have the WRs or RBs to carry the team and Goff cant carry the team with such subpar weapons at WR.

There really is little to no avenue for that team to be good on O unless that OL becomes an all time great OL depsite Jackson and Vatai being mediocre at this point.

Finally I suspect teams will blitz the Lions a **** ton because Goff sucks under pressure and the WRs are so bad few teams will be concerned about the WRs beating their CBs consistently. So sending 6 for example basically forces the Lions to leave a guy unblocked negating the OL or keeping Hock or Swift in to block which reduces Goff's weapons further.

If I am the Bears I also blitz the interior where Lions are weakest and/or over Sewell and force Hock or a RB to pick up Mack.

QB - Goff has proven he cant carry a team so I take Fields 100% for 2021 simply because he has the potential to surpass Goff especially given the shit targets Goff has and with Goff losing McVay.

Consensus opinion is the Bears needed a QB to be a SB contender. That is what was holding them back. Yet Goff has taking the Rams to the SB, has two pro-bowls under his belt, and a winning record in the playoffs. He has two seasons with over 4600 yards under his belt. So which is it? You can't have it both ways. I am not a huge Goff fan, but projecting a first year rookie to play better is nonsense. if your talking more long term upside with Fields, I will give you that. Fields could be Mahomes 2.0 or Trubisky 2.0 only time will tell. Dalton and Foles are ass. If your asking me what Qb I want for the next 4 years I am taking Fields. If you ask me what Qb I think will do better in 2021, it will be Goff.

RB - Monty had an 80.2 grade and Swift had a 69.2. So the answer here is Monty.

I respectfully disagree. It was Swifts rookie season and he played better as a rookie than Monty. Has more ability and will be playing behind a much better O-line than Monty, in an offense that will now be much more focused on the run. nagy can't call a run game to save his ass, either.

WR1 - ARob 88.2 is so much better than the guys in Det as neither has a 70 grade.

I gave you this one already, but we will see how many career decisions Arob makes playing under the tag with no long term contract in place.

WR 2 - Mooney has a higher grade than any WR on the Lions.

Be curious to see who has a better year, him or Perriman. This one is closer than you think.

WR3 - I guess pick the best WR on the Lions and they are better than Miller but the problem is the Lions top 3 WRs are closer to Miller than they are to ARob in terms of grades. The Lions basically have 3 Millers at WR while the Bears only have 1 plus ARob and Mooney.

Miller is straight up ass. I would wager the Lions rookie will have better stats than him this year.

TE - Hock but as Hock did in his 2nd year, this could easily become a push if Kmet takes a step in his 2nd year as TEs are often capable of doing.

And Hock could easily take another step forward making him a top 5 TE. Giving the current situation I say that is as much likely, if not more so, than your scenario.

LT - Decker but how big a gap this is right now is unknowable as depends on how ready Jenkins is.

A pro bowl LT vs a 2nd rnd rookie that has never played LT? it's not even close here.

LG - Whitehair has a 75 grade and Jackson was 57 so advantage goes to Whitehair until Jackson can show he has taken a leap. If he takes a step in his 2nd year then like with Kmet this gap can close.

Fair enough but if you look at Jackson's last 8 starts vs his first 8, then you can get a much more favorable comparison. I really did not know where to line Daniels up, TBH.

RT - If this is Ifedi or Borom then you go with Sewell here regardless given Sewell's potential.

C - This goes to Ragnow no matter who the C for the Bears is.

RG - Whether it is Daniels or Ifedi they both graded out better than Vaitai who had a 59 grade. Daniels was 65 and Ifedi was also 65 so either is a better option than Vaitai. Even of it is Borom he simply has more upside here than Vaitai.

Vatia played injured last year, plus a portion was at RT, which was a stupid idea. He slots back into the RG position this year and as such you should use his 2019 rating of 72.8.

Halapoulivaati Vaitai | Detroit Lions G | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for Detroit Lions G Halapoulivaati Vaitai on Pro Football Focus.

www.pff.com

so it's not even close.

The issue is the Lions really have no real promise at the areas where they have huge question marks ie WR while the Bears have promise at their questionable spots.

Perriman, while the chances are slim, could have a re-start to his career. They also picked up a nice rookie in the 4th, and have enough cap to sign another WR should one become available.

If Fields is the real deal and Jenkins holds down left tackle then the Bears stand to be much better on offense. Meanwhile the Lions WRs are complete ass and Goff is likely to regress outside of McVay's QB friendly system.

Projections that start of with two IFS are ass. If teams blitz the Lions a lot there is still TJ that will eat them alive, as well as Swift. And for all the concern at WR for the Lions, they have a lot of speed at the position.


There really is little to no avenue for that team to be good on O unless that OL becomes an all time great OL depsite Jackson and Vatai being mediocre at this point.

Except Vaitai is not mediocre when he slips back into his natural position (overpaid yes) and is not playing on an injured ankle. If Jackson plays just at a level like he did to close the season, your projections here are way off. The point of the matter is there are a lot less things to have to happen for the Lions O to be competent than for the same to be true with the Bears.

One injury to the Bears O-line or if Jenkins doesn't work at LT, the whole thing comes crashing down like a house of cards.

 

[jive]

It's been a while, but I feel pretty comfortable with our depth at guard. Cody Whitehair is solid, and guard seems to be more natural for him. James Daniels and Alex Bars have flashed, and Elijah Wilkinson has some NFL experience. If Larry Borom or Germain Ifedi can't cut it tackle, they may be more effective at guard.

But, we still have get the tackle and center position taken care of. It will depend on how quick a couple of rookies and a UDFA can develop,

 

[Myk]

Yeah it’s weird. Daniels was supposed to be the C when he was drafted. Struggled early with the mental side of it, but who knows…for a 2nd round pick he needs to start somewhere. C or RG most likely.

Seems odd to spend a 2nd rounder on a center that gets beat out by a 2nd round guard who can't snap a clean ball. But people didn't like me saying it was a failed pick because the player drafted as a center is good at guard.
I would think if Whitehair could be taught how to call NFL protections after being a college guard and tackle, Daniels with more experience at center could learn it.

 

[Canth]

I think people forget how young Daniels is and how much room he has to grow. The guy is still only like 23. He needs to get better, but I thought he was improving. Before the injury last year, he was playing a lot better.

The offensive line finally has some pieces to work with and I think a solid coach to develop those pieces with Juan Castillo. I like the shift they are going for to be more physical and getting bigger guys like Jenkins and Borom. They need that attitude change.

 

[Enasic]

Seems odd to spend a 2nd rounder on a center that gets beat out by a 2nd round guard who can't snap a clean ball. But people didn't like me saying it was a failed pick because the player drafted as a center is good at guard.
I would think if Whitehair could be taught how to call NFL protections after being a college guard and tackle, Daniels with more experience at center could learn it.

Yeah, agreed. I think Daniels could potentially get coached up at C. I mean, he had a very small sample size where he looked good at LG…but Cody had a much bigger sampling size and proved he was an elite LG…so Daniels needs to take over C or RG…can he play RG? I don’t know…he has some tools but he’s not really a mauler. He needs to find a home and I think you leave Cody at LG. Right now for a 2nd round pick, there’s concerns

 

[nc0gnet0]

I really don't like Goff, but I am interested in having swift on my fantasy teams.

Answer me honestly, who would you rather have at RB, Swift or Monty?

 

[Bearly]

So tell me, With the exception of Robinson, who on the Bears O would you start over the Lions offensive counterpart in 2021?

Goff or Dalton/Fields ? ( I get that Fields has possible future upside, but I am speaking of 2021 numbers)
Swift or Monty?
Hockenson or Kmet?
Decker or Jenkins
Jackson or Whitehair?
Ragnow or Mustipher?
Daniels or Vatai? (Daniels has never played Right guard)
Sewel or Bars/5th round rookie

I will give you two of the three WR's but Ant Mill is straight up ass.

so it goes like this.

If Fields can come in right away as a rookie and be better than Dalton (low bar here)
If Jenkins can come in and be an effective starter at LT (not his natural position)
if Kmet continues to improve
If Daniels can play right guard plus recover from injury
If a 5th round rookie can play RT
If Whitehair stops sucking ass
if ant Mill finally catches the ball and runs the right routes

that's a lot of if's just to get the bears to a middle of the pack offense.

Yet how did we finish the division vs you last year? Straight up? You now have Goff instead of Stafford and we have clearly improved our line and QB situation which were the biggest Issues on O. That said, football isn't about a collection of names,

I think that you're going to be disappointed in Goff and as good as Sewel likely is, will regret taking him instead of Fields.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Imagine believing that Goff lead his team to a Superbowl. That's like saying Grossman lead his team. Goff was effectively benched for an UDFA QB late last year

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yet how did we finish the division vs you last year? Straight up? You now have Goff instead of Stafford and we have clearly improved our line and QB situation which were the biggest Issues on O. That said, football isn't about a collection of names,

I think that you're going to be disappointed in Goff and as good as Sewel likely is, will regret taking him instead of Fields.

The question was only a comparison of the respective offenses, The reason you finished ahead in the division was a little bit of luck, and the fact the Lions D sucked ass. And this year the Bears D will regress even further, having lost their best CB while retaining Jimmy G (still a head scratcher to me), and quite possibly further regression from Hicks/Mack/Quinn.

I think that you're going to be disappointed in Goff and as good as Sewel likely is, will regret taking him instead of Fields.

I don't think its quite that simple. Any regret on this would largely be dependent on how the eventual QB the Lions do draft in 2022 or 2023 pans out.