- Joined:
- Jul 31, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,967
- Liked Posts:
- 697
Based off of?
Based off of?
- Joined:
- Nov 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 25,053
- Liked Posts:
- 11,503
My favorite teams
The eye test. The fact that Marmol Marshall, Shark, Z and Dempster haven't been to the DL yet make them more deserving than Garza.
- Joined:
- Apr 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 29,059
- Liked Posts:
- 7,249
again all stars dont get in because of just their k/9.
pitchers dont get in because of FIP, a subjective NON stat.
pitchers dont get in because of FIP, a subjective NON stat.
- Joined:
- May 6, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,945
- Liked Posts:
- 935
- Location:
- peoria/ chicago, il
For a second I thought I was in the wrong thread with all the Garza talk in a CASTRO thread. But then I remembered that I'm on CCS and threads get commandeered more frequently than a ship in the Caribbean by Captain Jack Sparrow.
Seriously though, Castro seems like the obvious choice to me. His avg. is (was a like a week ago) 5th in the NL. He's seeing the ball well, getting better with the place discipline, drawing a few more walks, playing better defense, etc.
Marmol just scares me too much. I don't think we have a starter that can contend with Halladay, Lee, Johnson, etc. as far as just complete domination goes.
If Baker or Johnson were regular starters and had the numbers they have now, I'd make a case for them, but I'm going with Castro for the Cubs' lone representative.
Seriously though, Castro seems like the obvious choice to me. His avg. is (was a like a week ago) 5th in the NL. He's seeing the ball well, getting better with the place discipline, drawing a few more walks, playing better defense, etc.
Marmol just scares me too much. I don't think we have a starter that can contend with Halladay, Lee, Johnson, etc. as far as just complete domination goes.
If Baker or Johnson were regular starters and had the numbers they have now, I'd make a case for them, but I'm going with Castro for the Cubs' lone representative.
- Joined:
- Apr 18, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,276
- Liked Posts:
- 680
You are right they get on ERA and Wins.
Two things that are extremely team dependent.
- Joined:
- Jul 31, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,967
- Liked Posts:
- 697
So Pujols shouldn't be an all-star because he has been on the DL? The eye test sucks. That's not exactly a great thing to use to back your point up with
- Joined:
- Nov 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 25,053
- Liked Posts:
- 11,503
My favorite teams
:lmao: Pujols will miss the all star game anyways. Using a bunch of numbers no one understands isn't a great way to back your point either.
- Joined:
- Jul 31, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,967
- Liked Posts:
- 697
You have the ability to look up these stats and understand them or you can ask and someone will explain it to you. Crazy concept.
- Joined:
- Apr 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 29,059
- Liked Posts:
- 7,249
I would say Pujols shouldnt play either because, well, he would have to play with a has a non-displaced fracture in his left forearm and that just wouldnt be right.
think before you post.Before you post that advice to someone, I think someone needs to explain to you what the numbers mean and how to translate them. Now run along to www.fangraphs.com pretend like you understand what you are reading. It is real simple to pull what fangraphs offers saber wise and paste the NON STATISTICAL DATA here on a message board. Again run along and go back to fangraphs,oh and hit my reputation level a bit on your way out. dope.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Apr 26, 2010
- Posts:
- 26,017
- Liked Posts:
- 3,297
- Location:
- Minnesota
My favorite teams
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
He's actually got a point :lol: While he may be glued to the stats like it was gospel, they're not actually that hard to understand and you don't have to actually be able to calculate FIP to realize why it's a superior evaluator to ERA. Doesn't make FIP the end-all-be-all, but just food for thought.
- Joined:
- Apr 26, 2010
- Posts:
- 26,017
- Liked Posts:
- 3,297
- Location:
- Minnesota
My favorite teams
The
was because he himself doesn't understand some of the stats he uses, like Isolated Power.He says that it measures how capable a player is of hitting homers. I can't find that thread, but he said Colvin wouldn't hit 20 HR's again because his ISO says he can't, then I said that ISO is a stat that measures how much (weighted) power a player hit for the previous season, or how well the player hit for extra bases, not how many homers he is capable of hitting, and he replied something along the lines of "no, it really does."
Fangraphs agreed with me.
- Joined:
- Apr 17, 2010
- Posts:
- 10,038
- Liked Posts:
- 819
- Location:
- Peoria IL
I think it will be between Marshall and Castro. Just 1 will go even thought both prolly do deserve
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
The
He says that it measures how capable a player is of hitting homers. I can't find that thread, but he said Colvin wouldn't hit 20 HR's again because his ISO says he can't, then I said that ISO is a stat that measures how much (weighted) power a player hit for the previous season, or how well the player hit for extra bases, not how many homers he is capable of hitting, and he replied something along the lines of "no, it really does."
Fangraphs agreed with me.
I agree with your facepalm then. I was trying to be slightly nicer though
- Joined:
- Apr 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 29,059
- Liked Posts:
- 7,249
baseball is a game of chance. That has how it has always been and always will be, so to GUESS on when a pitcher is unlucky, and the position player(s) coulda,woulda shoulda got to that ball is totally Special person. which none of that is known to be true. FIP gets used as a distorted backbone for fans to hang their hat on something positive about their player.
- Joined:
- May 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 24,664
- Liked Posts:
- 7,783
Marms may be the only Cubs rep. I think he def. gets in...and w/ Tulo and Reyes, it'll be interesting to see if the NL has 3 SSs on the roster. They did have 4 last season, but two were injury replacements.
- Joined:
- May 6, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,945
- Liked Posts:
- 935
- Location:
- peoria/ chicago, il
Hanley hasn't had that great of a year so far.
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
Well, that's sort of what stats like HR/FB and BABIP try to measure because the luck factor in baseball is pretty significant as you have said. The point is that certain pitchers will have to deal with shitty defenses behind them, and other pitchers will have spectacular defenders saving their hides. But FIP simply asks what the pitcher himself can control, which is walks and strikeouts and homers. If he can limit the walks and strike out enough batters, then he limits the amount he has to rely on his defense. If the ball is put in play anywhere inside the ballpark though, then it's up to the baseball gods where it lands.
- Joined:
- May 17, 2010
- Posts:
- 13,947
- Liked Posts:
- 3,118
Your post here reminded something I thought about the old school stats vs sabermetrics, and that is really what is the function of stats. When looking at what players did I think there isn't a problem at looking at some of the older stats. So when determining an honor like being named to the All-Star Game looking at ERA is the right thing because what matters at the end of the day is the number of runs a pitcher gives up. Things like FIP and K/9 are much better predictors of future performance however. And that is where things like luck come into play, and where we can talk about Garza most likely going to be the Cubs best starter the rest of the way this year. A subtle distinction but an important one when we are talking about awards like this.
- Joined:
- Apr 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 29,059
- Liked Posts:
- 7,249
Well alot of fans that love FIP hate WHIP because of the umpire controlling the zone which has been stated a million times on here, but yet the pitcher isnt in control of walks or strikeouts when it comes to FIP. The contradiction here has been made so many times by people on here that just think they understand sabermetrics but actually dont.