The Javier Baez Discussion Thread

JZsportsfan

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Mike Trout was awful as a 21 YO. Not comparing their talents just saying even the brightest young players go through significant struggles their first stint. I am glad he is experiencing some downs and learning where his weaknesses are. He has 6 months to work on his game this winter and this gives him something to build on
 

2323

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They should be looking to trade Castro if they trade anyone.
 

beckdawg

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Based upon the FO comments, they consider Javy to be a bird in the hand for next season.

[video=youtube;G2y8Sx4B2Sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

The implication that Baez is a "bird in the hand" would be that he's proven anything as the analogy is that having one bird is better than potentially more out in the bush. I mean I, and i'm guessing fury, get what you're on about but that's not really the right phrase. Quite the opposite in fact because the implication wasn't that you would trade Baez for several pitching prospects but rather you trade Baez and potentially others for a proven player. In this case, Baez would be one in the bush so to speak because until he's proven he's just potential.
 

Parade_Rain

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[video=youtube;G2y8Sx4B2Sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

The implication that Baez is a "bird in the hand" would be that he's proven anything as the analogy is that having one bird is better than potentially more out in the bush. I mean I, and i'm guessing fury, get what you're on about but that's not really the right phrase. Quite the opposite in fact because the implication wasn't that you would trade Baez for several pitching prospects but rather you trade Baez and potentially others for a proven player. In this case, Baez would be one in the bush so to speak because until he's proven he's just potential.

He's already more proven than a 17 year old SS, who truly is a bird in the bush.;)
 

Parade_Rain

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And let me be more blunt since I tried to get around it. They aren't trading Baez. They are hoarding the bats that are at or about MLB ready. That includes Castro, Rizzo, Baez, Bryant and Soler. I doubt they are looking to trade Russell either, but I don't feel as certain about him as I do the other 3 prospects.
 

beckdawg

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And let me be more blunt since I tried to get around it. They aren't trading Baez. They are hoarding the bats that are at or about MLB ready. That includes Castro, Rizzo, Baez, Bryant and Soler. I doubt they are looking to trade Russell either, but I don't feel as certain about him as I do the other 3 prospects.

I'm not going to get in a debate on whether the will or not because it's fruitless. All I will say is you should consider why they are hoarding bats. It's because pitchers in the minors is notoriously unreliable and hard to predict. It's substantially easier to predict pitchers at the major league level or near there. Admittedly this is speculation on my part but it would be quite smart to let other teams suffer that attrition and use your more reliable hitting prospects to deal for pitching. The "cost" of doing this is actually even better than it may appear. Hypothetically, let's say they were to deal 3 hitting prospects for a top flight starter. It's not just about the cost of that pitcher but also the hidden cost you save by not having to trudge through pitchers in the minors to find that guy.

I frankly don't buy the bullshit they are trying to sell that there's room for everyone. Even if there were, playing someone like Baez/Russell/Castro in the OF is a huge waste of potential value. And even if they do move those players to that OF that's then cutting someone else out. Soler, Alcantara, McKinney, Schwarber and Almora are all already legitimate starter prospects in the OF in their own regard. So, trying to add another guy to that mix isn't going to work. Some of those guys probably will end up being disappointing but you're still talking about 6 players for 3 positions and that's prior to any FA dealings.

So, while I'm not going to say it's foregone that they will trade Baez, I think it's almost a guarantee they will trade someone in the next two years and if you're looking at this logically as to who they would trade would it be Baez a player they inherited from a previous regime and whom their current scouting director suggested wasn't on the Padres radar had the cubs passed on him in the draft or would it be Almora(their first draft pick), McKinney(player they chose in a recent trade), Schwarber(another top 5 pick from them), Soler(a player they signed), Russell(another player they chose in a recent trade) or Castro(who they went out of their way to assure after trading for Russell)? I suppose you could make this same argument for Alcantara as well but he's one of the few top of the order types they have and has much more utility.

Like I've said elsewhere, it's possible I'm reading too far into things but to suggest this isn't a compelling argument seems naive to me. Just as an example, consider what the previous Padre regime did upon coming to power. They took the now cubs regime's choice at 1B(Rizzo) and dealt him after acquiring Alonso who they got after trading away Latos. Kind of an eerily similar situation to Russell/Baez/Shark wouldn't you say?
 

JimJohnson

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LOL @ people criticizing Baez. Guy has 5 jacks in 14 games. Find me another guy who had the same power in his first 14 games. I'm guessing you'll have to go back sometime.
 

theberserkfury

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LOL @ people criticizing Baez. Guy has 5 jacks in 14 games. Find me another guy who had the same power in his first 14 games. I'm guessing you'll have to go back sometime.

At 2nd, apparently it's just him and Jason Kipnis in the last century...
 

chibears55

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Lmao.. wasn't it a month or so ago everyone was trading Castro, now after waiting all year for Baez and because he doesn't have a dozen walks yet , he on top of the trade list now lol.
 

JimJohnson

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Lmao.. wasn't it a month or so ago everyone was trading Castro, now after waiting all year for Baez and because he doesn't have a dozen walks yet , he on top of the trade list now lol.

Cubdom.
 

beckdawg

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Lmao.. wasn't it a month or so ago everyone was trading Castro, now after waiting all year for Baez and because he doesn't have a dozen walks yet , he on top of the trade list now lol.

No, he's on the top of the trade list because they traded their best asset away for another SS whom many people in the scouting field prefer to Baez. Not saying everyone does but it's not clear cut as to who's objectively "better." Additionally, let's not act like it's just fans talking about this.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/17/mets-have-pitching-cubs-hitting-so-why-hasnt-a-deal-happened/
Talk to an executive about the Mets’ search for hitting or the Cubs’ hunt for pitching and inevitably you get some version of, “If you have any reason why these teams should not be united in trade, speak now or forever hold your peace.”
 

theberserkfury

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Lmao.. wasn't it a month or so ago everyone was trading Castro, now after waiting all year for Baez and because he doesn't have a dozen walks yet , he on top of the trade list now lol.

To be fair, if you're referring to beckdawg, I think he's made his concerns about Baez pretty clear for a while now...
 

beckdawg

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To be fair, if you're referring to beckdawg, I think he's made his concerns about Baez pretty clear for a while now...

It's not just that. I'm not going to shoehorn everyone into this boat but the general consensus has been positive for the type of move to acquire a top tier starter like David Price. If you're going to acquire that type of player it's going to take a player like Baez. Vogelbach, Almora and McKinney isn't likely to get the job done. People seem to be all in favor of acquiring great players but don't want to give up anything of value for them but frankly that's not how things work in reality. If Shark costs a Russell than getting a comparable starter is going to cost equally as much. And sure, you theoretically can acquire players in FA but that's far from a sure thing as we saw with the Tanaka/Sanchez situations.

The reality of the situation is the cubs have one of the top 5 offensive SS and likely thereabouts with Rizzo at 1B. You're going to be throwing in Soler and Bryant into that mix for sure who you can argue have that sort of impact at their respective positions. You also have numerous other interesting hitting prospects at a wide range of positions. The A's are currently one of the top two teams in baseball and their lineup consists of basically 3 really good hitters(Moss, Norris, Donaldson) and a collection of league average if that players. In other words, the cubs almost assuredly have more than enough hitting to spare in order to be a top team with or without Baez.

My opinion honestly still hasn't changed on Castro for that matter. But, clearly Castro is a much safer bet than Baez at this point and the indications the teams has given seem to be in support of Castro as a vet(can a 24 year old be a vet?) leader going forward.
 

DewsSox79

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LOL @ people criticizing Baez. Guy has 5 jacks in 14 games. Find me another guy who had the same power in his first 14 games. I'm guessing you'll have to go back sometime.

because that totally means something.


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theberserkfury

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beckdawg

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Kind of related... I know that pitchers will often pick the brains of other pitchers, but has anyone heard much about hitters talking to their own pitchers about how that pitcher would attack that hitter? Seems like that could be a valuable way to prepare/work on one's hitting approach.

Nothing explicit though I'm sure it happens. Seems like you often hear more about hitters talking to each other about how x pitcher deals with them and going from there. My guess is it may not work as well because typically your pitchers aren't throwing to your hitters. So, you could talk about how you would handle a similar player but it seems like there's enough adjustment even month to month between the two sides that it's often about where x player likes the ball thrown or how y pitcher sequences his pitches/locates.
 

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