The official around the MLB thread!

[Boobaby1]

The Brewers will announce today the hiring of Houston Assistant GM David Stearns to be their new GM. Stearns is a 30 year old Harvard grad wiz kid and in my opinion is an inspired choice. I'd expect a Chicago/Houston style rebuild commencing immediately but they do have some talent in the already n the minors. Should be interesting to watch. The rumor had been that they were previously looking at Ben Cherington but they weren't close on money.

Seems to be the smart way in rebuilding a team.

Of course, they could do what Theo did and sell off assets to speed up the process. I am sure they could get a few good minor leaguers for players like Lucroy and Davis, and get what you can for Braun who might figure to not be there when they do start to contend.

 

[CSF77]

They just have to tank for a few years. The real challenge will be in scouting and developing.

Theo over hauled the front office first then he targeted the coaching staff. Top to bottom.

It takes balls to overhaul like he did but seeing how the Cubs, Twins and the Astros all improved at the same time basically running the same strategy it leads to believe that it is a proven method.

 

[Boobaby1]

They just have to tank for a few years. The real challenge will be in scouting and developing.

Theo over hauled the front office first then he targeted the coaching staff. Top to bottom.

It takes balls to overhaul like he did but seeing how the Cubs, Twins and the Astros all improved at the same time basically running the same strategy it leads to believe that it is a proven method.

It is pure genius for all the teams mentioned. I also like the fact that Theo was upfront with the rebuild and stayed true to his word. Was it painful? Yes. But lets not act as if the Cubs were perennial WS teams either.

The Cubs will have an advantage of money that the others won't just by the market which will be a feather in our cap.

A change was necessary, and I am glad we have who we have as far as personnel from management to players, and I hope they stay around for a while cause there are going to be some fun times ahead.

 

[brett05]

They just have to tank for a few years. The real challenge will be in scouting and developing.

Theo over hauled the front office first then he targeted the coaching staff. Top to bottom.

It takes balls to overhaul like he did but seeing how the Cubs, Twins and the Astros all improved at the same time basically running the same strategy it leads to believe that it is a proven method.

Uhhhh...The Astros and Twins did not execute the same strategy as the Cubs.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Uhhhh...The Astros and Twins did not execute the same strategy as the Cubs.

Both took similar paths if not the same exact strategy. Houston likely more so than Minnesota. The Astros, for instance, immediately instituted an "Astros Way" in the organization and changed the structure of minor league coaching much like the Cubs did. They also identified an archetype of a player they wanted much like the Cubs even if Chicago seems to value the character aspect more than most. As far as differences, yes these three teams took different draft paths. Minnesota drafted high school position players heavily and high school arms to a lesser degree. Houston has taken a lot of pitching in the first round under Luhnow. The Cubs as we know have emphasized high ceiling, high floor position players taking the best available hitter as their 1st round pick the last three years. They also have emphasized power hitters, particularly right handed power, which they view as a market inequity. The Cubs have also invested heavily in International signings. Again while the draft strategy may differ all three of these clubs have pumped money into development, have emphasized foundation before tackling the MLB club and all are now reaping benefits. I do expect Milwaukee to take a similar path bug they actually have an advantage in that their farm system is not in the bottom 1/3 as Chicago's and Hoyston's were.

 

[willycat]

They just have to tank for a few years. The real challenge will be in scouting and developing.

Theo over hauled the front office first then he targeted the coaching staff. Top to bottom.

It takes balls to overhaul like he did but seeing how the Cubs, Twins and the Astros all improved at the same time basically running the same strategy it leads to believe that it is a proven method.

Quite amazing that Kenny and Jerry don't have testicles or smarts to take such actions. They keep harping that it will kill attendance and I'll ask what attendance.

 

[CSF77]

Quite amazing that Kenny and Jerry don't have testicles or smarts to take such actions. They keep harping that it will kill attendance and I'll ask what attendance.

I was thinking on a deal based around Soler for Q on the Sox. Guessing Brett would chime in if that is even a realistic deal and how much weight each player holds.

Q is more proven but seeing how he has never broke 10 wins yet maybe tonight he will. It just pretty much means he is not a household name yet and teams are looking at him as a 3-4 type.

Soler has a ton of raw potential. If he is able to refine his game he has MVP type talent. His bat speed is off the charts. Yes he needs to work on dealing with breaking pitches but no one is going to over power him with their fastball.

 

[brett05]

Both took similar paths if not the same exact strategy. Houston likely more so than Minnesota. The Astros, for instance, immediately instituted an "Astros Way" in the organization and changed the structure of minor league coaching much like the Cubs did. They also identified an archetype of a player they wanted much like the Cubs even if Chicago seems to value the character aspect more than most. As far as differences, yes these three teams took different draft paths. Minnesota drafted high school position players heavily and high school arms to a lesser degree. Houston has taken a lot of pitching in the first round under Luhnow. The Cubs as we know have emphasized high ceiling, high floor position players taking the best available hitter as their 1st round pick the last three years. They also have emphasized power hitters, particularly right handed power, which they view as a market inequity. The Cubs have also invested heavily in International signings. Again while the draft strategy may differ all three of these clubs have pumped money into development, have emphasized foundation before tackling the MLB club and all are now reaping benefits. I do expect Milwaukee to take a similar path bug they actually have an advantage in that their farm system is not in the bottom 1/3 as Chicago's and Hoyston's were.

It's not the same. The Cubs abandoned seasons and yes it looks like they hit it BIG. The Astros and Twins did nothing of the sort. They just don't have the same finances as the Cubs to have done both.

 

[brett05]

I was thinking on a deal based around Soler for Q on the Sox. Guessing Brett would chime in if that is even a realistic deal and how much weight each player holds.

Q is more proven but seeing how he has never broke 10 wins yet maybe tonight he will. It just pretty much means he is not a household name yet and teams are looking at him as a 3-4 type.

Soler has a ton of raw potential. If he is able to refine his game he has MVP type talent. His bat speed is off the charts. Yes he needs to work on dealing with breaking pitches but no one is going to over power him with their fastball.

I like Soler but I also have little confidence in the White Sox ability to develop young hitters.

That said, everyone in baseball knows Q and rate him as a top 8-15 pitcher in the league and a top 5-7 lefty in the league to boot. He's a top 50 player in all of professional organized baseball in America. To get Q the offer has to be a lot higher. No one sees Q as a bad pitcher because of his win total. I am pretty shocked you mention it.

So what would it take to get Q? Two top 25 specs and one solid major leaguer would probably be close to the right offer. Probably Baez as one of the top 25 specs. From the MLB roster, Soler, and then some sort of minor leaguer in the top 25 which I am unsure if the Cubs have that still, do they? I know they have torres but I am not sure the Sox need him. They got middle infield guys except for 3b which is probably where baez would slot.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

It's not the same. The Cubs abandoned seasons and yes it looks like they hit it BIG. The Astros and Twins did nothing of the sort. They just don't have the same finances as the Cubs to have done both.

Astros wins the last 3 years: 70, 51, 55. Cubs in the same span 73, 66, 61. Those two teams were mirror images of each other with slightly different focus. Jeff Luhnow took over in Houston 7 weeks after Theo and company took over in Chicago. Both sold off major league assets to acquire young talent, both cleared payroll in order to start fresh. Minnesota is a slightly different story but to say the Astros and Cubs didn't take similar paths just isn't right. This is a pretty good piece from Cubs Den back in May talking about some of the comparisons:

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/...s-astros-turnarounds-showing-patience-is-key/

This from the article:

A while back I talked to a friend who works for the front office of another team. He thought the Cubs and Astros had similar strategies and looking back on it now, he was absolutely right. I saw the Astros as the Cubs rebuilding rival, but in reality the Astros did many of the same things -- they put winning on the back burner and reaped the rewards that losing teams get under the current CBA, they traded short term assets for long term ones, and while their vision is slightly different than the Cubs, they got players who fit the mold of what they were looking for.

 

[CSF77]

Not sure where you get top 50. I just looked at ESPN top 100 and he was not on it. Arrieta was 3 and Grenke 1. Harper tween them. Rizzo 4 then 6 on Ellis. Bryant on top 50.

So not so sure. Maybe on potential. I really do not believe he has had a true break out yet. That is all I meant.

 

[Diehardfan]

I like Soler but I also have little confidence in the White Sox ability to develop young hitters.

That said, everyone in baseball knows Q and rate him as a top 8-15 pitcher in the league and a top 5-7 lefty in the league to boot. He's a top 50 player in all of professional organized baseball in America. To get Q the offer has to be a lot higher. No one sees Q as a bad pitcher because of his win total. I am pretty shocked you mention it.

So what would it take to get Q? Two top 25 specs and one solid major leaguer would probably be close to the right offer. Probably Baez as one of the top 25 specs. From the MLB roster, Soler, and then some sort of minor leaguer in the top 25 which I am unsure if the Cubs have that still, do they? I know they have torres but I am not sure the Sox need him. They got middle infield guys except for 3b which is probably where baez would slot.

Typical Sox fan.....overvaluing their players. There's a reason why the White Sox are where they are and that's one of them. If I were Theo, this is what I'd say to that trade offer....

"Here's a newsflash...the Chicago Cubs aren't gonna do the scouting and drafting for the Chicago White Sox. Just because your team has no future....don't expect the Cubs to supply you with one."

 

[CSF77]

Nvm: tied for 93. By no means does that justify Soler, Baez and a equal to Baez.

You are under selling the value of players with star potential.

If we were talking about Sale then I would agree. Even though I believe it would be too much to pay. But we are talking Price level talent and that type changes the dynamic of a team.

At least on his day.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Typical Sox fan.....overvaluing their players. There's a reason why the White Sox are where they are and that's one of them. If I were Theo, this is what I'd say to that trade offer....

"Here's a newsflash...the Chicago Cubs aren't gonna do the scouting and drafting for the Chicago White Sox. Just because your team has no future....don't expect the Cubs to supply you with one."

Oh come on. Have you watched Quintana pitch? The kid's a stud on an incredibly reasonable deal. I do think Soler, Baez and another prospect is a little high but honestly it's not that far off. It's probably only high because of the value those top two guys have on this Cubs team and that pitching is available elsewhere. Believe me if the White Sox shopped Quintana they'd have solid offers in 10 minutes.

 

[CSF77]

Oh come on. Have you watched Quintana pitch? The kid's a stud on an incredibly reasonable deal. I do think Soler, Baez and another prospect is a little high but honestly it's not that far off. It's probably only high because of the value those top two guys have on this Cubs team and that pitching is available elsewhere. Believe me if the White Sox shopped Quintana they'd have solid offers in 10 minutes.

They would but not 2 high impact players on a current roster.

Like I was saying Soler as a starting point. I believe you add Vogelbach and a arm like Stennet or higher ranked it gets them talking. If they want higher value then they have to start adding from their side.

The problem is not over valuing Q. It is under valuing Soler. I'm guilty of it as he is raw. But his potential is off the charts.

His 2 main weaknesses are breaking balls. We saw Dunston go from a bad breaking ball hitter to on of the league best with time. So it can be done. 2 running routes. Again that is a learned ability. That takes learning the right way and time.

Also on both the willpower to see it through.

There is little to show me that he is incapable of taking his game to the next level.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

They would but not 2 high impact players on a current roster.

Like I was saying Soler as a starting point. I believe you add Vogelbach and a arm like Stennet or higher ranked it gets them talking. If they want higher value then they have to start adding from their side.

The problem is not over valuing Q. It is under valuing Soler. I'm guilty of it as he is raw. But his potential is off the charts.

His 2 main weaknesses are breaking balls. We saw Dunston go from a bad breaking ball hitter to on of the league best with time. So it can be done. 2 running routes. Again that is a learned ability. That takes learning the right way and time.

Also on both the willpower to see it through.

There is little to show me that he is incapable of taking his game to the next level.

I'm not as sold on Soler and wouldn't mind him at the top of that trade, I wouldn't give up Baez though. I think Soler will get better but I see him as having the lowest ceiling of the bunch of him, Bryant, Russell, Schwarber & Baez. I think he'll be a solid player at the plate, and average outfielder and steady guy on a roster, maybe an occasional All Star. If there's a MLB guy I'd part with for pitching it would be him. That said if they can avoid giving him up at all I'm good with that too.

This is all moot because if the White Sox traded Quintana to the Cubs there would be an angry mob of Sox fans with pitchforks and the Cubs wouldn't trade away two of their young studs. I'm not sure they'll trade one.

 

[CSF77]

I'm not as sold on Soler and wouldn't mind him at the top of that trade, I wouldn't give up Baez though. I think Soler will get better but I see him as having the lowest ceiling of the bunch of him, Bryant, Russell, Schwarber & Baez. I think he'll be a solid player at the plate, and average outfielder and steady guy on a roster, maybe an occasional All Star. If there's a MLB guy I'd part with for pitching it would be him. That said if they can avoid giving him up at all I'm good with that too.

This is all moot because if the White Sox traded Quintana to the Cubs there would be an angry mob of Sox fans with pitchforks and the Cubs wouldn't trade away two of their young studs. I'm not sure they'll trade one.

Soler, Almora, Villanueva and Vogelbach. Then with the cost savings resign Folwler to a 3 year deal. This gives time for Happ to mature to be his replacement in CF.

Soler: Replaced by Bryant.
Almora's need ended with Fowler and Happ.
Villanueva blocked by Baez now at 3B
Vogelbach blocked by Rizzo but now can focus on pure hitting in the AL.

To me that is a solid offer. Yes the Sox fans will scream too low but in reality it is not. They are getting a gold glove type 3B with 20 HR power. A RF with solid major league value that plays today. A GG CF type ready in a year. And a high OBA LH power hitter.

To be honest all of them have good bottom ends. I do not see a superstar out of the bunch. Soler could. Vogelbach would have to pull Dunn type production and that doesn't mean he will.

That is a offer of numbers. For higher quality it would have to be centered around Torres. I really do not think the Cubs will give him up. I see them using Castro at 2B until Torres promotes then they trade Castro's remainder.
Happ would fit at CF better.

Another they might consider is McKinney. I'm not a huge fan of his. Yes he is a pure hitter but unless he starts to show 30 HR power I'm not impressed with his package. I see him as a young Coghlan. That is a good ball player but not a guy you build a team around.

 

[CSF77]

Well Q is on the wrong end of a no hitter. And the other starter lasted only 5.... Man the sox sux

 

[A.C. Milan]

Saladino breaks the no hitter with a triple in the 9th

 

[TL1961]

It's not the same. The Cubs abandoned seasons and yes it looks like they hit it BIG. The Astros and Twins did nothing of the sort. They just don't have the same finances as the Cubs to have done both.

How do you say the Astros didn't abandon seasons? Every year the Cubs drafted high, the Astros drafted before them.