The Season is officailly over now.

beckdawg

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You still over generalize peak years. You put everyone in the same category and I dont find that to be true, just my opinion though. Cashner has changed. He has learned how to pitch. The manager of the Padres said the K's are coming.

I generalize because that's generally how things work. Undoubtedly there are exceptions but you never know who those will be. Regardless, we're comparing a 22 and 23 year old player to a 25 and 26 year old player. It's a slanted comparison. There's a reason 25-30 is are usually considered as your peak years. As for the K's coming, have the cubs managers not said the same things about Rizzo and his average? Can it happen? Absolutely. I just don't think he's that player just like I don't think Wood is an ace type pitcher. If I'm wrong in the future then I'm wrong. And that's not to say Cashner doesn't have value as a Wood type pitcher because he does. I just think he's a 3-4 on a good team. And we can debate the merits of fWAR here but in 2 seasons he's put up 2.5 vs 3.3 Rizzo has put up in 2 seasons you would expect Cashner to win given age.

My point is simply that if it is a 50/50 choice now, what will it be 3 years from now when Rizzo hits his "prime" years? And sure Cashner could get better. But he could also show the same flashes of brilliance that Shark does, never quite pulling it all together. I guess what I'm trying to say here is I am not surprised to see a 23 year old in his first full season in the majors struggle. On the other hand, as a 26 year old I expect more out of Cashner. And don't get me wrong he had a good season last year but it was also a season in which the splits suggest wildly different players. In petco he was arguably the best pitcher in the league. On the road he was a 3-4 starter. Given his history in chicago I'm more inclined to believe his road split. But ether way, it's clearly a question and for a 27 year old pitcher he's running out of time for questions just like Shark as a 29 year old is.

I feel I should also point out SD had a 3.24 ERA at home and a 4.78 ERA on the road last season as a team. So, it wasn't just him having greatly impact stats by Petco. Until Cashner puts up a more respectable road split I'm going to be inclined to view him as more a product of the stadium. If he goes out and puts up a 3.50 ERA road split next year then clearly I'm wrong and he'll probably end up with a 2.5-2.75 ERA overall. But, to view him as a similar pitcher to King Felix, Strasburg, and Sale because they have a similar ERA I feel is naive because I would take any of them over Cashner if I had to win a game.
 

JosMin

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Did anyone else notice my full erection when my "other" BF, AKA Junior Lake, went yard three times yesterday, including a total sex fest that went to DEAD MUH' FUCKIN' CENTER <3

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As you see in this picture, Junior is clearly trying to explain to the umpire how enormous his flesh trumpet is.
 

CSF77

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I generalize because that's generally how things work. Undoubtedly there are exceptions but you never know who those will be. Regardless, we're comparing a 22 and 23 year old player to a 25 and 26 year old player. It's a slanted comparison. There's a reason 25-30 is are usually considered as your peak years. As for the K's coming, have the cubs managers not said the same things about Rizzo and his average? Can it happen? Absolutely. I just don't think he's that player just like I don't think Wood is an ace type pitcher. If I'm wrong in the future then I'm wrong. And that's not to say Cashner doesn't have value as a Wood type pitcher because he does. I just think he's a 3-4 on a good team. And we can debate the merits of fWAR here but in 2 seasons he's put up 2.5 vs 3.3 Rizzo has put up in 2 seasons you would expect Cashner to win given age.

My point is simply that if it is a 50/50 choice now, what will it be 3 years from now when Rizzo hits his "prime" years? And sure Cashner could get better. But he could also show the same flashes of brilliance that Shark does, never quite pulling it all together. I guess what I'm trying to say here is I am not surprised to see a 23 year old in his first full season in the majors struggle. On the other hand, as a 26 year old I expect more out of Cashner. And don't get me wrong he had a good season last year but it was also a season in which the splits suggest wildly different players. In petco he was arguably the best pitcher in the league. On the road he was a 3-4 starter. Given his history in chicago I'm more inclined to believe his road split. But ether way, it's clearly a question and for a 27 year old pitcher he's running out of time for questions just like Shark as a 29 year old is.

I feel I should also point out SD had a 3.24 ERA at home and a 4.78 ERA on the road last season as a team. So, it wasn't just him having greatly impact stats by Petco. Until Cashner puts up a more respectable road split I'm going to be inclined to view him as more a product of the stadium. If he goes out and puts up a 3.50 ERA road split next year then clearly I'm wrong and he'll probably end up with a 2.5-2.75 ERA overall. But, to view him as a similar pitcher to King Felix, Strasburg, and Sale because they have a similar ERA I feel is naive because I would take any of them over Cashner if I had to win a game.

Fans over value his fastball. 98 is sexy but he needs to dominate regardless of the park.

Maddux looked his age as a Cub. Went to Dodgers and Pads and put together better seasons. The park was a major factor.

Cashner should be dominant on the road with his stuff.

Just saying.
 
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Just as I predicted, Silence is still a Cashner whore. Rizzo may have holes in his swing, but his strikeout rate is still quite manageable despite a poor .233 average last season. And honestly, how many hitters don't have holes in their swing?

I will post something on Silence's behalf, though - I'm happy to see him contribute to the Cub Fan Homeless Shelter (mudncleats). Hopefully you guys could continue to promote my blog over there.

Much appreciated.
 

SilenceS

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Just as I predicted, Silence is still a Cashner whore. Rizzo may have holes in his swing, but his strikeout rate is still quite manageable despite a poor .233 average last season. And honestly, how many hitters don't have holes in their swing?

I will post something on Silence's behalf, though - I'm happy to see him contribute to the Cub Fan Homeless Shelter (mudncleats). Hopefully you guys could continue to promote my blog over there.

Much appreciated.

[video=youtube;VAlBvxjApf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAlBvxjApf4[/video]
 

patg006

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Fans over value his fastball. 98 is sexy but he needs to dominate regardless of the park.

You mean like with Vizcaino who hasn't pitched competitively in two years now?
 
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What more could I expect from Silence besides a groundless, fake, youtube clip?

If you're such a genius, how would you address our anemic offense if Rizzo weren't around??? Would you make Schierholtz an everyday player and our primary run-producer? Or sign an already 37-year-old Soriano to an extension? Wow.

I'll wait.

We lost 96 games with a full season of at-bats from Rizzo. We easily achieve back-to-back 100 loss seasons without him. Don't undervalue Rizzo's plate discipline.
 

SilenceS

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What more could I expect from Silence besides a groundless, fake, youtube clip?

If you're such a genius, how would you address our anemic offense if Rizzo weren't around??? Would you make Schierholtz an everyday player and our primary run-producer? Or sign an already 37-year-old Soriano to an extension? Wow.

I'll wait.

We lost 96 games with a full season of at-bats from Rizzo. We easily achieve back-to-back 100 loss seasons without him. Don't undervalue Rizzo's plate discipline.

[video=youtube;j9ndS6yu3Kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9ndS6yu3Kk[/video]
 

CSF77

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What more could I expect from Silence besides a groundless, fake, youtube clip?

If you're such a genius, how would you address our anemic offense if Rizzo weren't around??? Would you make Schierholtz an everyday player and our primary run-producer? Or sign an already 37-year-old Soriano to an extension? Wow.

I'll wait.

We lost 96 games with a full season of at-bats from Rizzo. We easily achieve back-to-back 100 loss seasons without him. Don't undervalue Rizzo's plate discipline.

When Rizzo puts up a .250+ season with HR's near 30 then we can talk. Until then the Jury is out.
 
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When Rizzo puts up a .250+ season with HR's near 30 then we can talk. Until then the Jury is out.

.250 isn't setting the bar too high, but that's beside the point. As bad as our offense has been the last two years, it would be that much worse without Rizzo. Poor Silence has got nothing.
 

SilenceS

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.250 isn't setting the bar too high, but that's beside the point. As bad as our offense has been the last two years, it would be that much worse without Rizzo. Poor Silence has got nothing.

I have a lot. I just know you are to dumb to have a baseball discussion. You have proven throughout your message board career. So, go back to whatever you were doing.
 

patg006

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.250 isn't setting the bar too high

For a career .238 hitter it is.

What would really be setting the bar high though would be expecting you to make an intelligent post without any whining or crying.
 

Jntg4

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For a career .238 hitter it is.

What would really be setting the bar high though would be expecting you to make an intelligent post without any whining or crying.

An eventual .012 improvement for a 24 year old? You're right, impossible.
 

patg006

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An eventual .012 improvement for a 24 year old? You're right, impossible.

Can you actually read??

Do you understand that no one actually said it was impossible?
 
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I have a lot. I just know you are to dumb to have a baseball discussion. You have proven throughout your message board career. So, go back to whatever you were doing.

lol How the **** do you even know about my message board career? I was a basketball poster who was never really a regular on the Cubs message board on CBS. Back when CBS featured its user blogs in 2009 and 2010, I've earned on insert on the site's community front page on seven different occasions. I'm not 21 anymore like I was then and I'll admit my stuff is more refined now, but I bet you didn't know that one...
 

CSF77

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.250 for Rizzo would put his OBA around .350 which is desirable. For him to put up a .250 he would have to cut down on SO's. Which means making more contact at the plate.

Now S/T is S/T but he went up as a hitter first which I believe he needs to continue vs being a power hitter first. More contact means more HR's. Just common sense. But he has to do it first before spank festing squat.
 

chibears55

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.250 for Rizzo would put his OBA around .350 which is desirable. For him to put up a .250 he would have to cut down on SO's. Which means making more contact at the plate.

Now S/T is S/T but he went up as a hitter first which I believe he needs to continue vs being a power hitter first. More contact means more HR's. Just common sense. But he has to do it first before spank festing squat.

For a career .238 hitter it is.

What would really be setting the bar high though would be expecting you to make an intelligent post without any whining or crying.

A career .238 hitter? Lmao
He hit .285 in 2012 and had a terrible year last season at .230.. a season and half don't exactly define his career. . He could just as easily have a 50 point jump in his Avg this year as he dropped 50 last year..
If you were around then, you probably wanted Dejesus back when Ryno didn't get his first hit til may and was a .260 hitter and .310 OBP after his first 2 full seasons.

Your trying way to hard to be like your buddies that you don't realize how foolish you make yourself look in here.

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