The Ultimate " So Its 2016 Now" Thread

[Jntg4]

Buster Olney just had a whole thing about the Cubs and Red Sox being front runners when Price become available. He actually thinks that the Cardinals have the fire power to blow everyone out of the water on a package deal but he doesnt think they would open up the checkbook to get involved. He says the Cubs are by far in the best shape to pay him.

I think you underestimate what a true Ace can do for a team. I think Price impact on the team would be far greater than Fielder. I know. I know. Pitchers only pitch every 5th day, but we are in a different style of baseball now a days. Post season is dominated by pitching. Thats why I believe a true elite ace is so important. Add in the fact that Shark just continues to grow and impress. Them two right there could be a nastier tandem then Prior and Wood ever were. Im over not signing Fielder. It would have been a much bigger risk for an NL team to sign him then a AL team. That DH makes a big difference and I think it is completely unfair that the AL has a leg up because of that. You know the Tigers felt comfortable because they have that DH to fall back on. I like Fielder and would have liked him in Cubbie blue, but the AL had the clear advantage to sign him.

As for the lineup, I think you can pencil in Rizzo, Castro, and Castillo for the foreseeable future barring injury. Soler is coming sooner then people think. The Cubs are saving him a spot and I can see that coming. I am not saying they are completely going to rush him, but I think with the money invested he is going to be on a much faster track. He is wearing out Daytona right now. He could make it to AAA by this year. He would def. start next year in AAA. I know its a risk, but you have to think of Soler as a FA acquisition because of the money. The Cubs are not going to block him. Hence, Nate the great. By the way, I hope he continues to rake because a left handed hitter with a cannon for an arm in RF would be great trade bait at the deadline for a contender. Baez is going to be slower coming through because he has more fine tuning to do because of his aggressiveness. This is where I do not know what the Cubs will do. He has to be the third baseman of the future, but you are going to have to address it sooner rather than later. They have to get someone there that can hit until Baez is ready or some young kid is ready to take the position. I truly believe when some of the kids are ready they will anchor it with Price. I think it would be an exciting team to watch. This is just my theory on what I see going on and the possible options they have going.

Fortunately, Baez is just starting to heat up, too early to say he's going slow. But great post all around.

 

[patg006]

Oh, so Epstein doesn't get enough quality players and now you don't want us to chase Price? Interesting.

Jntg, I understand its text, but; I was being sarcastic. I think you and I are gonna get along just fine :fap:

 

[Jntg4]

Jntg, I understand its text, but; I was being sarcastic. I think you and I are gonna get along just fine :fap:

:fap:

Figured it wasn't complete serious, but wasn't sure if it was regular sarcasm or mockery sarcasm lol

 

[mountsalami]

Keith Law sucks...

Price is someone I am willing to deal a lot of our better prospects for, players like him don't come around all that often. But would I trade Baez or Soler or Almora, etc. for someone of a calibur closer to that of Brandon Phillips for example? No, not because he's not good, but because they could be used to acquire something better or we could continue to develop them. It has to be the right player and the right value IMO.

Keith Law does suck. I agree.

I've been down this David Price path on other boards and have done my reading of the sports pages of Tampa Bay.

Friedman has been all over the city and is threatening to pull out if he doesn't get a new stadium. He is tired of NOT being able to keep his young talent.

Price, I believe will be his breaking point. Freidman has said, on many occasions, that he wants to keep Price and can pay him.

So let's not get to full hard-on just yet.

:cum:

 

[Jntg4]

Keith Law does suck. I agree.

I've been down this David Price path on other boards and have done my reading of the sports pages of Tampa Bay.

Friedman has been all over the city and is threatening to pull out if he doesn't get a new stadium. He is tired of NOT being able to keep his young talent.

Price, I believe will be his breaking point. Freidman has said, on many occasions, that he wants to keep Price and can pay him.

So let's not get to full hard-on just yet.

:cum:

Full hard-ons can come very early here, there's unlimited :fap:

 

[mountsalami]

Full hard-ons can come very early here, there's unlimited :fap:

OOOOOOOOOHHH yessssss that's niiiiiice.
Going to have to start buying the cheap toilet paper.


:fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::cum:

 

[Jntg4]

OOOOOOOOOHHH yessssss that's niiiiiice.
Going to have to start buying the cheap toilet paper.


:fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::cum:

Na, Dewey will clean it up, you can :cum: on the floor

 

[CSF77]

Vitters had a solid year in the minors last year, and is still young for the level, I could see him doing something there, Lake I see no future in (not really one in Vitters either).

Lake is an enigma though, there's still that slight chance in harnessing his potential and some like him, but for as much as I follow our minors, just don't see much in him. Wouldn't hold my breath on either of them. I like Villanueva, but his bat needs improving. Think Baez is more of the target 3B from the farm, not Villanueva.

Fisch, and then Piazza in the 60th-something round that no longer exists.

They have not made him shift over to 3B. Also they did trade for Christian, His biggest asset is his glove and this management loves slurping D.

Originally Posted by CSF77
3B Christian Villanueva should be in Iowa. I believe he is their targeted 3B.
I nearly had an accident when reading this.
If it is me I sign Youk for 2014.
I think Youkie signed for two season with the Yanks.

1 year/$12M (2013)
signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 12/11/12


Rumor has it that Yanks may go hard after Headley themselves as they are not resting on A-Rod being the same or even healthy again.


Like I said If it was me I would first go after Price and then go after Headley. Even if it costs the next 4 years of prospects. IMO most of that talent came via Jim Hendry anyways.

As long as they have Soler in the pipe and this years #2 pick I'm good.

Guys I'm thinking:

Baez: have Castro locked up.
Almora: Have Jackson in AAA
Vogelbach: Have Rizzo
Pierce Johnson
Zeke DeVoss He is in CF in A+

They lack quality/quanity pitching IMO to make this a legit option.

Next option is:

Retain Schierholtz. So status Que in RF. Doubt they rush up Soler to 2014.
3B: They need a 1 year fix. Christian should be the guy in 2015. Like I said they love his glove. Any of the guys listed or Benemit would be a upg to what they have put out there post A-Ram. (should have extended A-Ram 2 years IMO)

Now what to do with Baez: I would concider him in LF to be honest and think on pushing Jackson out of the mix after Almora promotes.

 

[mountsalami]

Na, Dewey will clean it up, you can :cum: on the floor

LOL.....That's a big 10-4 !!!!!


:jawdrop::cum:

 

[Jntg4]

They have not made him shift over to 3B. Also they did trade for Christian, His biggest asset is his glove and this management loves slurping D.





1 year/$12M (2013)
signed by NY Yankees as a free agent 12/11/12


Rumor has it that Yanks may go hard after Headley themselves as they are not resting on A-Rod being the same or even healthy again.


Like I said If it was me I would first go after Price and then go after Headley. Even if it costs the next 4 years of prospects. IMO most of that talent came via Jim Hendry anyways.

As long as they have Soler in the pipe and this years #2 pick I'm good.

Guys I'm thinking:

Baez: have Castro locked up.
Almora: Have Jackson in AAA
Vogelbach: Have Rizzo
Pierce Johnson
Zeke DeVoss He is in CF in A+

They lack quality/quanity pitching IMO to make this a legit option.

Next option is:

Retain Schierholtz. So status Que in RF. Doubt they rush up Soler to 2014.
3B: They need a 1 year fix. Christian should be the guy in 2015. Like I said they love his glove. Any of the guys listed or Benemit would be a upg to what they have put out there post A-Ram. (should have extended A-Ram 2 years IMO)

Now what to do with Baez: I would concider him in LF to be honest and think on pushing Jackson out of the mix after Almora promotes.

You are saying that Jackson's presence makes Almora more expendable? I'd disagree on that since Almora is the far superior prospect, as is Baez to Villanueva, but I get where you are going with that one.

 

[KBisBack!]

I just don't see David Price to the Cubs happening.

First, it goes against the rewarding journey of building up the farm system. A team will have to empty out their top prospects to get him probably. You are talking probably three top prospects.

The last top pitcher I can think of that was traded that still had a year of control left (assuming Price gets traded this season or next offseason) was Greinke to Milwaukee and the Royals scored Lorenzo Cain (now the starting CF), Alcedes Escobar (who was already a major league starting SS) and Jake Odorizzi (who was a major piece in the Shields/Davis trade). So that means the likely starting price to the Cubs is at least two of the following three, Soler, Baez and Almora.

That leaves not much promising coming through the system, so if you give up all of that the major league future looks more bleak so to keep Price, who becomes a free agent after the 2015 season you will either have to way overpay him to stay on a bad ball club or you will have to go out and spend a ton on multiple free agents to make the major league roster better and still have to pay an enormous price to retain Price who will be 30 years old by the time he hits free agency. He will be looking for probably a 6-7 year deal at $25M per.

So if you are going to mortgage the farm system on David Price, you better hope that Cano doesn't sign during the season with the Yanks and then start with offering him $200M. You better also be looking at Jacoby Ellsbury this next offseason as well.

We are probably already at $450M and counting and you still need a 3B.

All of this goes totally against the plan of stock piling the farm system and not signing FA's past their peak years which is supposedly the blue print of this great rebuild.

 

[JZsportsfan]

There really wasn't any FA this offseason who was entering his prime, that made anyone salivate about the idea of landing him. I really don't understand the criticism of the winter moves. Are you mad that Pujols and Hamilton aren't on the roster? I'd take Rizzo at this point because he is still entering his prime and he is roughly a quarter of a billion dollars cheaper. Also people need to realize that you cannot turn a franchise around overnight, in one year, or even two. The Cubs had an awful major league team, and an even worse farm system. Go back and look at the Cubs top draft picks and prospects the past decade and absolutely zero of them made an impact other than Prior, who was limited by numerous injuries.

Also realize Theo is not the GM. Sure he has a huge say it what the Cubs do, but the Jed Hoyer is the GM. To be a successful franchise you need a great farm and ML team. Look at the Cardinals. A WS contender every year and now they have the #1 farm system. The White Sox are going to be in a similar scenario in a couple years as their farm system is atrocious. Now they are much better at the ML level but not good enough to contend for a division crown let alone a WS.

And finally the Villanueva and Schierholtz move look utterly fantastic now. Sure it's only 2 weeks and I don't see Villanueva winning a CY Young anytime soon he is making the Cubs a better team. You need to realize how awful this franchise really was two years ago. From top to bottom it is quite impressive how much has changed in terms of the quality of young talent and the way they play the game. Think back to when Lou left, and Quade first took over, and think about now. Brett Jackson was by far the Cubs best prospect 2 years ago. I think that pretty much sums it all up.

 

[DewsSox79]

So now it's 2016

Keith Law does suck. I agree.

I've been down this David Price path on other boards and have done my reading of the sports pages of Tampa Bay.

Friedman has been all over the city and is threatening to pull out if he doesn't get a new stadium. He is tired of NOT being able to keep his young talent.

Price, I believe will be his breaking point. Freidman has said, on many occasions, that he wants to keep Price and can pay him.

So let's not get to full hard-on just yet.

:cum:

but but buster olney says he will come here. lol

 

[JZsportsfan]

I just don't see David Price to the Cubs happening.

First, it goes against the rewarding journey of building up the farm system. A team will have to empty out their top prospects to get him probably. You are talking probably three top prospects.

The last top pitcher I can think of that was traded that still had a year of control left (assuming Price gets traded this season or next offseason) was Greinke to Milwaukee and the Royals scored Lorenzo Cain (now the starting CF), Alcedes Escobar (who was already a major league starting SS) and Jake Odorizzi (who was a major piece in the Shields/Davis trade). So that means the likely starting price to the Cubs is at least two of the following three, Soler, Baez and Almora.

That leaves not much promising coming through the system, so if you give up all of that the major league future looks more bleak so to keep Price, who becomes a free agent after the 2015 season you will either have to way overpay him to stay on a bad ball club or you will have to go out and spend a ton on multiple free agents to make the major league roster better and still have to pay an enormous price to retain Price who will be 30 years old by the time he hits free agency. He will be looking for probably a 6-7 year deal at $25M per.

So if you are going to mortgage the farm system on David Price, you better hope that Cano doesn't sign during the season with the Yanks and then start with offering him $200M. You better also be looking at Jacoby Ellsbury this next offseason as well.

We are probably already at $450M and counting and you still need a 3B.

All of this goes totally against the plan of stock piling the farm system and not signing FA's past their peak years which is supposedly the blue print of this great rebuild.

Price is gonna go to a team like the Rangers or Cardinals. As I said in my post about the key to succes is having a great farm and ML roster. This is exactly why. The Cards and Rangers are contending teams that have 2 of the top 3 farm systems in baseball. That allows them to reload talent and get younger/cheaper and fill a need via FA, or trade for a proven ML player like David Price.

 

[DewsSox79]

So now it's 2016

There really wasn't any FA this offseason who was entering his prime, that made anyone salivate about the idea of landing him. I really don't understand the criticism of the winter moves. Are you mad that Pujols and Hamilton aren't on the roster? I'd take Rizzo at this point because he is still entering his prime and he is roughly a quarter of a billion dollars cheaper. Also people need to realize that you cannot turn a franchise around overnight, in one year, or even two. The Cubs had an awful major league team, and an even worse farm system. Go back and look at the Cubs top draft picks and prospects the past decade and absolutely zero of them made an impact other than Prior, who was limited by numerous injuries.

Also realize Theo is not the GM. Sure he has a huge say it what the Cubs do, but the Jed Hoyer is the GM. To be a successful franchise you need a great farm and ML team. Look at the Cardinals. A WS contender every year and now they have the #1 farm system. The White Sox are going to be in a similar scenario in a couple years as their farm system is atrocious. Now they are much better at the ML level but not good enough to contend for a division crown let alone a WS.

And finally the Villanueva and Schierholtz move look utterly fantastic now. Sure it's only 2 weeks and I don't see Villanueva winning a CY Young anytime soon he is making the Cubs a better team. You need to realize how awful this franchise really was two years ago. From top to bottom it is quite impressive how much has changed in terms of the quality of young talent and the way they play the game. Think back to when Lou left, and Quade first took over, and think about now. Brett Jackson was by far the Cubs best prospect 2 years ago. I think that pretty much sums it all up.

I love when the white sox get brought up. its so sweet. bad farmmzzz and teh stuffzz.

 

[patg006]

There really wasn't any FA this offseason who was entering his prime, that made anyone salivate about the idea of landing him. I really don't understand the criticism of the winter moves. Are you mad that Pujols and Hamilton aren't on the roster? I'd take Rizzo at this point because he is still entering his prime and he is roughly a quarter of a billion dollars cheaper. Also people need to realize that you cannot turn a franchise around overnight, in one year, or even two. The Cubs had an awful major league team, and an even worse farm system. Go back and look at the Cubs top draft picks and prospects the past decade and absolutely zero of them made an impact other than Prior, who was limited by numerous injuries.

I'd take Fielder over Rizzo...

Also realize Theo is not the GM. Sure he has a huge say it what the Cubs do, but the Jed Hoyer is the GM. To be a successful franchise you need a great farm and ML team. Look at the Cardinals. A WS contender every year and now they have the #1 farm system. The White Sox are going to be in a similar scenario in a couple years as their farm system is atrocious. Now they are much better at the ML level but not good enough to contend for a division crown let alone a WS.

LIQIS.

Theo pulls the strings, to think he doesnt and its all Hoyer is foolish.

Cards are stacked because they know when to pull the trigger, when to not, when to pay someone (or not,) and are the most fundamentally sound example of the BOTH thing of building the farm and fielding a major league team. That thing the cubs should be doing. But instead; we're graced with a sacrifice of a shitty ML team poised for another top 3 draft pick of 2014 all for the sake of this rewarding journey.

And when the cubs tanked, we didnt see guys like Chris Sale, Dayan Viciedo, Quintana, Axelrod, Addison Reed, and John Danks when he isnt suffering from a case of Jerker's Elbow due to too much :fap: as a core to build around. We had Starlin Castro and a 2 year rental of Matt Garza....we let Lee and Rami go; shipped Cashner off for an already anointed Anthony Rizzo; who has yet to play a full year in the ML but hes immensely a better option than Prince Fielder to the slurpers and :fap: fans, just as bad as you indicated. But now that successes are coming like Shark, Castillo, Barney, Castro, Russell; Hendry gets no credit.

White Sox will be in much better shape when they need to rebound. And I dont buy "bad farm." Genius Keith Law blasted them repeatedly for Chris Sale (for some unknown reason he hates the dude I'd kill for Chris Sale to be in my rotation. White sox always find a way to make some nobody prospect never talked about or hyped stick and be decent. It's always been who they are. They're the little brother team in a city that doesnt pay attention to them so they get ignored.....

And finally the Villanueva and Schierholtz move look utterly fantastic now. Sure it's only 2 weeks and I don't see Villanueva winning a CY Young anytime soon he is making the Cubs a better team. You need to realize how awful this franchise really was two years ago. From top to bottom it is quite impressive how much has changed in terms of the quality of young talent and the way they play the game. Think back to when Lou left, and Quade first took over, and think about now. Brett Jackson was by far the Cubs best prospect 2 years ago. I think that pretty much sums it all up.

Villy and Schierholtz moves look utterly fantastic? Right now yes, great game today. At this rate they're going to be dealt in July.......All I can do is sit back and hope like hell we get some good lottery tickets that either make it or get shipped to another hopeful team in a trade thinking they're of value.

But what doesnt? No Dan Haren and instead an incapable Carlos Marmol; no 3B, Chris Volstad, Ian Stewart, Scott Baker's elbow, Brent Lillebridge, Dale Sveum's ingenious moves of sitting his hottest hitter (Schireholtz) against every lefty pitcher for Dave Sappelt, saying "trust me" with Carlos Marmol then trying to defend the move of playing him. Scott Feldman.

 

[JZsportsfan]

I'd take Fielder over Rizzo...



LIQIS.

Theo pulls the strings, to think he doesnt and its all Hoyer is foolish.

Cards are stacked because they know when to pull the trigger, when to not, when to pay someone (or not,) and are the most fundamentally sound example of the BOTH thing of building the farm and fielding a major league team. That thing the cubs should be doing. But instead; we're graced with a sacrifice of a shitty ML team poised for another top 3 draft pick of 2014 all for the sake of this rewarding journey.

And when the cubs tanked, we didnt see guys like Chris Sale, Dayan Viciedo, Quintana, Axelrod, Addison Reed, and John Danks when he isnt suffering from a case of Jerker's Elbow due to too much :fap: as a core to build around. We had Starlin Castro and a 2 year rental of Matt Garza....we let Lee and Rami go; shipped Cashner off for an already anointed Anthony Rizzo; who has yet to play a full year in the ML but hes immensely a better option than Prince Fielder to the slurpers and :fap: fans, just as bad as you indicated. But now that successes are coming like Shark, Castillo, Barney, Castro, Russell; Hendry gets no credit.

White Sox will be in much better shape when they need to rebound. And I dont buy "bad farm." Genius Keith Law blasted them repeatedly for Chris Sale (for some unknown reason he hates the dude I'd kill for Chris Sale to be in my rotation. White sox always find a way to make some nobody prospect never talked about or hyped stick and be decent. It's always been who they are. They're the little brother team in a city that doesnt pay attention to them so they get ignored.....



Villy and Schierholtz moves look utterly fantastic? Right now yes, great game today. At this rate they're going to be dealt in July.......All I can do is sit back and hope like hell we get some good lottery tickets that either make it or get shipped to another hopeful team in a trade thinking they're of value.

But what doesnt? No Dan Haren and instead an incapable Carlos Marmol; no 3B, Chris Volstad, Ian Stewart, Scott Baker's elbow, Brent Lillebridge, Dale Sveum's ingenious moves of sitting his hottest hitter (Schireholtz) against every lefty pitcher for Dave Sappelt, saying "trust me" with Carlos Marmol then trying to defend the move of playing him. Scott Feldman.

Tell me exactly which member of the Cubs rotation Dan Haren is doing better than and I would love to acknowledge that statement as fair. Chris Volstad was a dump off for Carlos Zambrano. IF I must refresh your memory he had to go and wasn't exactly putting up CY Young numbers to go along with his $18 million salary. And yes Villanueva and Schierholtz look like great moves. They will be dealt which is the reason they signed them. If you've been living under a rock the past year you know the Cubs have taken flyers on certain guys on the cheap. Not every $1 million signing is going to result in an All-Star. Some guys injuries are going to reoccur. Hence the reason the risk the Cubs took and why they got them for so cheap. Think about what we lost in those risks. Absolutely nothing. Sure we lost Tyler Colvin to the ROckies. Yes, the same Tyler Colvin playing for the Colorado Springs Sky Sox. You cannot say it's only been a couple games in terms of Villanueva and in the same post complain about the signing of Feldman.

And please humor me and point out where I said Rizzo was a better player than Fielder. Fielder or not this Cubs team isn't contending. So does logic dictate signing a guy for $200 million+, and waiting till he turns 31/32 to be competitive, or get a guy for an often injured relief pitcher who will be 26 at the time who is already one of the better young players in the game today making less than $500,000? Now I am an engineering major not an economics major but it doesn't take much to figure the logical choice there.

And I also said Theo has a HUGE say in things. To say Hoyer is a lame duck GM is foolish. So another thing you kinda pulled out of nowhere. As for the White Sox, I do believe you are the first person to say that building around John Danks is a great idea. I haven't seen anybody rank the White Sox higher than 25th in the farm rankings, so Keith Law isn't sitting up in Detroit with a grin on his face bashing the White Sox because he has an inferiority complex. And you say we let Lee go? Umm yeah he was a 34 year old hitting .250 and he was shipped to a contender and is now retired. So yeah that extra 80 games or whatever of Derek Lee would have surely resulted in a fantastic playoff run.

And how do you think the Cardinals got there? Years of building up the farm system. Then when those players were called up, they continued to do the same thing allowing them the flexibility they have now. They didn't just magically become the best organization in baseball.

 

[KBisBack!]

Brett Jackson was by far the Cubs best prospect 2 years ago. I think that pretty much sums it all up.

And now Baseball America has him 5th, with one of the players ahead of him being Javier Baez whom was drafted by Hendry.

Not all that much has changed really.

I think that pretty much sums it all up.

 

[JZsportsfan]

As a whole the farm system was ranked between 25-29 when Theo first took over at the start of last year. The average ranking of the Cubs by the top 10 rankings lists was 26 or 27, I can't exactly remember. Now it is ranked just out of the top 10, usually around 12 give or take a couple spots depending on who you read. Quite the difference in a little over a year. Honestly don't know what you guys expected. I mean of all sports baseball is by far the longest to turn around.

 

[KBisBack!]

or get a guy for an often injured relief pitcher who will be 26 at the time who is already one of the better young players in the game today making less than $500,000? Now I am an engineering major not an economics major but it doesn't take much to figure the logical choice there.

Rizzo already one of the better young players in the game today???

Holy cow. Slurp Slurp Slurp.

Put the bong down and pick the books back up. You are wasting mommy and daddies tuition money.

He is no where close to Freeman or Goldschmidt as young NL 1B.

He's not even in the top 25 of players 25 years old and younger.