The underlying problem with the Bulls is John Paxson and Gar Forman.

[Enasic]

Not sure if I would give up a 1st just to dump Derrick Rose when he's only signed one more season. Unless you're convinced Durant would sign with us. That seems unlikely though.

 

[knoxville7]

Not sure if I would give up a 1st just to dump Derrick Rose when he's only signed one more season. Unless you're convinced Durant would sign with us. That seems unlikely though.

true that's unlikely, although you would still try of course. but freeing up rose's $$ along with Gibson and niko would allow the bulls to go out and sign maybe mike conley and al horford. then your starting 5 is conley, butler, mcd, portis, and horford. i like that starting 5 more than what we have currently

 

[clonetrooper264]

The other thing is I'm convinced the Bulls will do nothing useful with that cap space even if we did free it all up. We'd be reading the same story of missing out on the best FAs and having to settle for 2nd or 3rd tier guys.

 

[knoxville7]

The other thing is I'm convinced the Bulls will do nothing useful with that cap space even if we did free it all up. We'd be reading the same story of missing out on the best FAs and having to settle for 2nd or 3rd tier guys.

entirely possible....but it doesn't mean you give up trying

 

[clonetrooper264]

entirely possible....but it doesn't mean you give up trying

Maybe. Idk, I guess because I'm so jaded from striking out in FA that salary dump trades don't even really appeal to me all the much. It's one thing to try to sign a role player, this I think we could do fine. But a star player that takes us over the top? I'm ridiculously pessimistic. And really, if we were to dump Rose's salary onto someone, we'd not even get something as good as Eric Gordon and his 15M expiring or whatever it is I don't think. We'd probably have to something like the Warriors did with David Lee and get some old overpaid player who we waive.

 

[knoxville7]

Maybe. Idk, I guess because I'm so jaded from striking out in FA that salary dump trades don't even really appeal to me all the much. It's one thing to try to sign a role player, this I think we could do fine. But a star player that takes us over the top? I'm ridiculously pessimistic. And really, if we were to dump Rose's salary onto someone, we'd not even get something as good as Eric Gordon and his 15M expiring or whatever it is I don't think. We'd probably have to something like the Warriors did with David Lee and get some old overpaid player who we waive.[/QUOTE]

that's what the 1st round draft pick we would send is supposed to compensate for. since NO would have a crowded backcourt they wouldn't do the deal though you are right about that. bulls would have to get a 3rd team involved to take Jrue from NO. a team like the knicks would make a lot of sense since they have a need at the PG spot. a 3 team trade like this might work for all 3 parties....

Bulls send Derrick Rose and a 1st round pick to NO
Knicks send Kevin Seraphin and his 2.8 expiring contract to the Bulls
Knicks send Derrick Williams, Sasha Vujacic and a 1st round pick to NO
NO sends Jrue Holiday to the Knicks
NO sends Eric Gordon to the Bulls

Bulls do it for the obvious reason of freeing up derricks contract
Knicks do it to get a young talented PG to go with afflalo, Anthony, porzingis, and lopez...a solid starting 5
NO would do it for the 2 first round draft picks they would gain and the "potential" of derrick rose and if nothing less his ability to draw fans to the stadium for a year and a half. NO lineup would be something like rose, evans, Williams, davis, and Omer

 

[Enasic]

true that's unlikely, although you would still try of course. but freeing up rose's $$ along with Gibson and niko would allow the bulls to go out and sign maybe mike conley and al horford. then your starting 5 is conley, butler, mcd, portis, and horford. i like that starting 5 more than what we have currently

I like that team more too but both the Hawks and Grizz can offer them more money than we can because of their bird rights. They both seem very happy on their respective teams and I think both the Grizz and Hawks want to keep them. Chances of landing even one of them would be slim. Both would be practically no chance.

 

[knoxville7]

I like that team more too but both the Hawks and Grizz can offer them more money than we can because of their bird rights. They both seem very happy on their respective teams and I think both the Grizz and Hawks want to keep them. Chances of landing even one of them would be slim. Both would be practically no chance.

maybe so, but you have one player in butler worth building around. i think we can agree there. his prime is for a limited time, thus you have a limited time frame to try and make it happen. its not like those will be the only 2 FA's available...just two that came to mind that i particularly like for the hoiberg system. i guess all im trying to say is its better to try and fail than to do nothing at all. if they plan on doing nothing and not trying to move contracts for expiring ones then they will be wasting jimmys prime years

 

[Enasic]

maybe so, but you have one player in butler worth building around. i think we can agree there. his prime is for a limited time, thus you have a limited time frame to try and make it happen. its not like those will be the only 2 FA's available...just two that came to mind that i particularly like for the hoiberg system. i guess all im trying to say is its better to try and fail than to do nothing at all. if they plan on doing nothing and not trying to move contracts for expiring ones then they will be wasting jimmys prime years

I hear ya. I disagree in the strategy simply because you're not very likely to land the type of running mate Jimmy needs, and you're giving up Rose and a 1st round pick to do it. Yeah, you get the chance. But you could also wait another year and get the chance for free. Who knows, maybe Derrick stays healthy and plays well during that time. If he doesn't, no big loss. The crop of free agents available in 2017 is comparable to this coming off-season. Guys like Griffin, Howard, Westbrook, Parsons, Ibaka, Noel, Dieng. Chances are the Bulls won't land a top 5-7 player in free agency anyways.

 

[knoxville7]

I hear ya. I disagree in the strategy simply because you're not very likely to land the type of running mate Jimmy needs, and you're giving up Rose and a 1st round pick to do it. Yeah, you get the chance. But you could also wait another year and get the chance for free. Who knows, maybe Derrick stays healthy and plays well during that time. If he doesn't, no big loss. The crop of free agents available in 2017 is comparable to this coming off-season. Guys like Griffin, Howard, Westbrook, Parsons, Ibaka, Noel, Dieng. Chances are the Bulls won't land a top 5-7 player in free agency anyways.

haha that's the typical pessimistic attitude bulls fans have about FA, and i get why. i just don't think that means you quit trying that avenue when possible.

i just hate the idea of wasting another season with derrick on the team. its clear they cant do much about it as long as his contract is still on the books. he thinks he is still worth that $$, so he doesn't sound to willing to take a pay cut when his FA time does come. so why waste anymore time with a player that isn't producing and doesn't seem flexible on his own demands despite that? me personally, id rather cut my losses and move on and put my eggs in a new basket. that basket may or may not be any better, but you already know about the current basket youre in lol

 

[Enasic]

haha that's the typical pessimistic attitude bulls fans have about FA, and i get why. i just don't think that means you quit trying that avenue when possible.

i just hate the idea of wasting another season with derrick on the team. its clear they cant do much about it as long as his contract is still on the books. he thinks he is still worth that $$, so he doesn't sound to willing to take a pay cut when his FA time does come. so why waste anymore time with a player that isn't producing and doesn't seem flexible on his own demands despite that? me personally, id rather cut my losses and move on and put my eggs in a new basket. that basket may or may not be any better, but you already know about the current basket youre in lol

Like I said, I hear ya. But I don't think it's really a pessimistic attitude. It's more based on probabilities and history. Sometimes they can be a little harsh though. I mean, sure it's possible we could bring that type of player in for once. I'm not entirely ruling it out. But I think more likely, we would be picking from the 2nd and 3rd tier bin.

 

[knoxville7]

Like I said, I hear ya. But I don't think it's really a pessimistic attitude. It's more based on probabilities and history. Sometimes they can be a little harsh though. I mean, sure it's possible we could bring that type of player in for once. I'm not entirely ruling it out. But I think more likely, we would be picking from the 2nd and 3rd tier bin.

put it to you this way. there is only 2 ways the bulls are going to acquire a tier 1 level player to pair with jimmy and that is either thru the draft or FA. by trading away rose, Gibson, niko, gasol for expiring contracts you are accomplishing both things at once. you are freeing up the cap space to go after top level FA's(no matter how poor of a chance you may have) and you are also going to end up with a worse record and thus getting a better draft pick to increase your odds of landing a great player. its better than being a 1st/2nd round playoff team every year. i just don't want to waste jimmys prime years...finding tier 1 players is hard enough, we need to take advantage of the 1 we do have while we have him. derrick used to be that before the injuries and its unfortunate, but its time to move on from him if at all possible which is an unknown obviously

 

[Enasic]

put it to you this way. there is only 2 ways the bulls are going to acquire a tier 1 level player to pair with jimmy and that is either thru the draft or FA. by trading away rose, Gibson, niko, gasol for expiring contracts you are accomplishing both things at once. you are freeing up the cap space to go after top level FA's(no matter how poor of a chance you may have) and you are also going to end up with a worse record and thus getting a better draft pick to increase your odds of landing a great player. its better than being a 1st/2nd round playoff team every year. i just don't want to waste jimmys prime years...finding tier 1 players is hard enough, we need to take advantage of the 1 we do have while we have him. derrick used to be that before the injuries and its unfortunate, but its time to move on from him if at all possible which is an unknown obviously

I totally get the strategy and I don't hate it. The thing is, if that's your strategy, you have to understand the risk and potential outcomes of it. Going into it, there is a high probability you strike out on the Kevin Durant, Mike Conley, and Al Horford's of the world. So you pick from the 2nd and 3rd tier bin. You're without a 1st round pick and without Derrick Rose. Not exactly a great place to be when you're looking to maximize Jimmy's prime.

On the other hand, you let Pau and Noah walk, you sign Nic Batum or Harrison Barnes and you still have Derrick Rose and a 1st round pick. The following year Derrick Rose is off the books and you take another crack at the top dogs or the 2nd/3rd tier bin. Which scenario sounds better to you ?

 

[knoxville7]

I totally get the strategy and I don't hate it. The thing is, if that's your strategy, you have to understand the risk and potential outcomes of it. Going into it, there is a high probability you strike out on the Kevin Durant, Mike Conley, and Al Horford's of the world. So you pick from the 2nd and 3rd tier bin. You're without a 1st round pick and without Derrick Rose. Not exactly a great place to be when you're looking to maximize Jimmy's prime.

On the other hand, you let Pau and Noah walk, you sign Nic Batum or Harrison Barnes and you still have Derrick Rose and a 1st round pick. Which scenario sounds better to you ?

Harrison barnes isn't going anywhere. hes a restricted FA. better odds of getting conley or horford. as far as the draft pick you could trade Sacramento's pick in a deal with Rose or your 2017 1st round pick to ensure you still have a 1st rounder this draft. i still prefer the former strategy over the latter. if you like nic batum that much you can still sign him in the offseason my way along with other guys. heres the FA's worth looking into IMO if the bulls had the extra cap room from getting rid of rose's contract.

Durant - highly unlikely but again you would try still
Dwight Howard - not a huge fan but he can still impact a game
DeRozan - unsure he leaves Toronto, but if so him and butler on the wing would be nasty together
Beal - same thing as with DeRozan
Horford - ATL probably ponies up the $ to keep him
Wade - probably stays in south beach
Batum - a guy you like a lot
Whiteside - will be available i would think
Conley - you think Memphis gives him the big $ contract....i kind of doubt they do though
Rondo - a guy i think would thrive in a hoiberg system pushing the ball up court
Parsons - stays in dallas probably
Jamal Crawford - no big $$ here but a guy that i think can come off the bench and score for you
Mozgov - again no big $$ but a guy that can help your interior defense

so there are some guys that will be available that can really come in and help this team. it allows hoiberg to get guys in here that he thinks fits his system of basketball also. you could bring in a guy like batum as well as a guy like rondo. those are two guys that i would think will be on the open market for sure this offseason. ill roll with rondo butler batum portis and maybe a guy like Mozgov or hell re sign Noah for a starting 5 with McD off the bench as your 6th man

 

[Enasic]

I think out of Durant, Horford, and Conley, Conley is the most likely to leave. I would say Durant stays in OKC at least 80% and I think Horford stays 95%

Both teams could offer them more money than us, and both teams are winning teams. Could they leave? Sure. Would they leave to bolt to our situation? I just don't see it.

...and Conley, while a good player -one of my favorite players, actually- probably doesn't get us over the top either. If Memphis doesn't retain him and if he decided to come to sweet home Chicago.

I think this is just something we disagree about. Like I said, I completely get the strategy, I won't knock ya for it, I just don't think it's worth it in the end because of everything I've said throughout.

 

[knoxville7]

I think out of Durant, Horford, and Conley, Conley is the most likely to leave. I would say Durant stays in OKC at least 80% and I think Horford stays 95%

Both teams could offer them more money than us, and both teams are winning teams. Could they leave? Sure. Would they leave to bolt to our situation? I just don't see it.

...and Conley, while a good player -one of my favorite players, actually- probably doesn't get us over the top either. If Memphis doesn't retain him and if he decided to come to sweet home Chicago.

I think this is just something we disagree about. Like I said, I completely get the strategy, I won't knock ya for it, I just don't think it's worth it in the end because of everything I've said throughout.

and I cant say youre wrong about any of what you just said either. I think rondo and batum would be a nice backup combo though still. either way, a jolly back and forth with you sir!

 

[Enasic]

 

[knoxville7]

no fair...cat memes always win lol

obviously right now the gold standard is GS. so to win a title you have to be able to matchup and beat them its fair to say. we have one piece currently that does that in butler, so we really need an upgrade at the PG position and at the other wing position. have to try and matchup and defend curry, Thompson, and barnes. when I think about it that way I would prefer to have rondo and batum I think over conley/horford in FA. rondo guarding curry would do as well of a job as anyone can. butler on Thompson and batum on barnes. those are all really good matchups and would be fun to watch I think. even a draymond vs portis matchup could be really fun in a year from now. that roster could be at least a pest to GS

 

[Enasic]

no fair...cat memes always win lol

obviously right now the gold standard is GS. so to win a title you have to be able to matchup and beat them its fair to say. we have one piece currently that does that in butler, so we really need an upgrade at the PG position and at the other wing position. have to try and matchup and defend curry, Thompson, and barnes. when I think about it that way I would prefer to have rondo and batum I think over conley/horford in FA. rondo guarding curry would do as well of a job as anyone can. butler on Thompson and batum on barnes. those are all really good matchups and would be fun to watch I think. even a draymond vs portis matchup could be really fun in a year from now. that roster could be at least a pest to GS

First we would have to get past Cleveland...

Would Rondo and Batum be enough? Maybe. Personally, I've never been a big fan of Rajon. He's a good player, but I think the stats could be a bit mis-leading with him. And he's a poor free throw shooter.

Rondo, Batum, Butler, Niko, Portis, Doug is a nice squad, but I don't think they're going very far in the playoffs.

 

[knoxville7]

First we would have to get past Cleveland...

Would Rondo and Batum be enough? Maybe. Personally, I've never been a big fan of Rajon. He's a good player, but I think the stats could be a bit mis-leading with him. And he's a poor free throw shooter.

Rondo, Batum, Butler, Niko, Portis, Doug is a nice squad, but I don't think they're going very far in the playoffs.

ahh I see the main difference here is what we each think of rondo as a player. he is a poor free throw shooter no doubt, but I love his demeanor on the court along with his ball handling and ability to run an offense and hes a good defender too.