Trade deadline banter

CSF77

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But I will agree on Verlander regardless. 98 is 98 at the end of the day. The rotation as a whole avg 87-93 in general so that stands out when in a series.
 

beckdawg

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Mets are not dealing him. Wouldn't give up much for him either.

That's not really my point. My point is they are thinking outside the box rather than just waiting on someone like gray
 

anotheridiot

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But I will agree on Verlander regardless. 98 is 98 at the end of the day. The rotation as a whole avg 87-93 in general so that stands out when in a series.

Well, Jake is taking off and getting better results, so 98 just does not matter if its straight.
 

CSF77

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Well, Jake is taking off and getting better results, so 98 just does not matter if its straight.

It matters. When you are in a 7 game series and all that you see is 90 MpH (about) every day the hitters bats adjust to that speed. Hendricks is the opposite. He is in at 89 when Jake and Jon were avg 94. So it matters.

Jake is another story. He pitches to lite contact. His fastball now is avg MLB speed but he is getting better command of his pitches now.
 

CSF77

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That's not really my point. My point is they are thinking outside the box rather than just waiting on someone like gray

Ya i get that part. He is meh honestly. 6K/9. Sits at 90 mph

Hendricks is pushing 8 K per 9

In pitching zones he gets hammered when he goes over the plate. Almost all of his SO pitches have happened down and away. So slider in the dirt. But in zone BA is up and exit velocity is upper 90's.

So it really is a shakey list of info that I wouldn't go after
 

beckdawg

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Ya i get that part. He is meh honestly. 6K/9. Sits at 90 mph

Hendricks is pushing 8 K per 9

In pitching zones he gets hammered when he goes over the plate. Almost all of his SO pitches have happened down and away. So slider in the dirt. But in zone BA is up and exit velocity is upper 90's.

So it really is a shakey list of info that I wouldn't go after

If you dislike him that's fine but it's should be noted he performed much better in the minors. 2.7 bb/9 8.7 k/9 over 447.0 innings.
 

CSF77

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If you dislike him that's fine but it's should be noted he performed much better in the minors. 2.7 bb/9 8.7 k/9 over 447.0 innings.

Is he > or < Hendricks? To me that is the floor that you target.
 

beckdawg

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Is he > or < Hendricks? To me that is the floor that you target.

Don't think you know yet. He's not thrown enough in the majors. Also what version of Hendricks? I'd argue without having answers to your view on that question not quite but then I think Hendricks is better than most young pitchers in baseball. Think a better question is whether or not he has the potential to be better than an average MLB pitcher which I'd aruge he maybe does.
 

CSF77

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Don't think you know yet. He's not thrown enough in the majors. Also what version of Hendricks? I'd argue without having answers to your view on that question not quite but then I think Hendricks is better than most young pitchers in baseball. Think a better question is whether or not he has the potential to be better than an average MLB pitcher which I'd aruge he maybe does.

More of is he better than Hendricks now. Because we are talking about a 4 man rotation.
 

beckdawg

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More of is he better than Hendricks now. Because we are talking about a 4 man rotation.

That's a simplistic view to take only looking at 2017. Think the cubs are always looking for buying chances to solve this year and beyond.
 

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Verlander has been better than Lackey ever was. If we can get him for 2/$32, they gotta do it. You pay for pitching.
 

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Verlander has been better than Lackey ever was. If we can get him for 2/$32, they gotta do it. You pay for pitching.

HEY!! I knew that was you creeping around in here.

Don't think they'll get him...everyone's intimidated by Lackey. He'll bean the whole front office.

Here's why I would want Verlander around....get to see more of this at Wrigley.

kate-upton-3.jpg
 

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HEY!! I knew that was you creeping around in here.

Don't think they'll get him...everyone's intimidated by Lackey. He'll bean the whole front office.

Here's why I would want Verlander around....get to see more of this at Wrigley.

kate-upton-3.jpg
Well worth the price of admission.
 
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CSF77

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That's a simplistic view to take only looking at 2017. Think the cubs are always looking for buying chances to solve this year and beyond.

Very honest way of looking at it. If a guy is less than Hendricks that makes him a 4-5. The Cubs have talent upwelling right now and you really don't need a minor upgrade blocking them.

If it was a guy like Verlander that can pound 98 MPH and could replace Jake in the rotation vs a #5.

The way I look at it is The rotation would be Lester/Verlander/Q/Hendricks/Tseng in 2018. Or Lester/Q/Hendricks/Lugo/Tseng.

Rotation A has 3 proven vets. 1 WS tested and a Rookie as a 5. Rotation B has 3 guys that have a similar approach.

Honestly it is really not in question which rotation would be better in 2018. If Ver was struggling to hit 94 then I would be concerned. Right now he is pounding 98 and honestly could be forced to lessen velocity to increase movement with that 98 in the hip.
 

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That Verlander contract is an absolute abomination. There is no way Ricketts/Epstein get anywhere near that thing.
 

CSF77

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That Verlander contract is an absolute abomination. There is no way Ricketts/Epstein get anywhere near that thing.

Cubs are the only team that that trade makes sense.


Cubs: Even after acquiring Jose Quintana, the Cubs are known to have interest in starting pitching, and Verlander would give them another veteran arm to help them manage the possible losses of Jake Arrieta and John Lackey to free agency next winter. They’ve reportedly scouted Verlander and have discussed him with the Tigers, and they’re one of only a handful of teams who clearly could afford him. They’re also reportedly interested in acquiring a catcher, so perhaps there could be a deal involving both Verlander and Avila, particularly since Avila makes a mere $2MM and has been productive this season. The intensity of the Cubs’ interest in Verlander is unclear, and as with all teams, his contract will be an obstacle.

Astros: Houston has been connected to Verlander, along with Wilson, although the Detroit Free Press’ Anthony Fenech characterized the Astros’ level of involvement in Verlander trade talks as “minimal.” The team’s recent return to health, with Collin McHugh returning from injury and Dallas Keuchel set to come back this week, might make the Astros more likely to pursue top-end starters rather than innings eaters, since they currently have enough reliable arms to fill out their rotation. Their interest in Verlander, then, might depend on whether they still see him as an ace-type pitcher. Verlander’s contract would of course be a factor as well, although the Astros do appear to have the payroll flexibility to add him, particularly if the Tigers are willing to pay what’s left of his 2017 salary.

Yankees: The Yankees have been connected to a variety of rotation possibilities and could potentially afford Verlander, although their luxury-tax bill is a concern. They haven’t recently been connected to Verlander in particular, though, and based on published reports, seem to have greater interest in Gray. They also have a clear need for another A’s veteran, Yonder Alonso, which might give them further incentive to continue talking with Oakland. Verlander could, however, represent an interesting alternative to Gray whose acquisition likely wouldn’t cost the Yankees top prospects.

Dodgers: L.A. has repeatedly been connected to Darvish, while there haven’t been many indications they’re seriously interested in Verlander. Still, they have an injured ace (Clayton Kershaw), and their seemingly wide-open wallet would give them a big advantage if they decided they had serious interest.

Nationals: The Nats haven’t been strongly connected to Verlander, and FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal recently indicated that they aren’t in on Gray or Darvish. Injuries to Stephen Strasburg and Joe Ross have left them with some rotation questions, however, and they generally aren’t shy about adding big-name players. They’ve also been connected to Wilson.

Brewers: Milwaukee has reportedly shown interest in Verlander, along with other rotation options. The Brewers have also been connected to Wilson and Kinsler, again raising the possibility the Tigers could strike some sort of package deal. And the Brewers under owner Mark Attanasio have never been shy about adding big-name pitching as they’ve prepared for past stretch runs, adding CC Sabathia and Zack Greinke in past seasons in which they contended. All that written, it seems especially unlikely that they would consummate a deal for Verlander. His age and salary could potentially pose big problems for a generally budget-conscious organization (although one with few long-term commitments at the moment). And the Brewers’ 2017 run at the NL Central title, while impressive, has if anything been a pleasant surprise from a team that seemed to be rebuilding. They recently fell into second place, behind the Cubs, and their fade might make them less likely to make a big move.

Rockies: Acquiring Verlander would be a break from the Rockies’ M.O., but they’ve shown interest in rotation upgrades and have limited payroll obligations beyond 2017, so Verlander could theoretically be a fit. They have enough interesting young arms to fill out their rotation, but could potentially benefit from a veteran anchor. Of course, it’s not clear that Verlander is the right veteran anchor for them, given his contract, fly-ball tendencies and sketchy 2017 performance thus far. It’s also unclear whether Verlander would accept a deal that would place him in Coors Field, a stadium that could potentially hurt his future earning power.

Diamondbacks: The Diamondbacks have already swung one big trade with the Tigers, and there have at least been whispers about the possibility they could look to improve their rotation. Most current rumors about the Snakes focus on other areas, however, and all five of their current starters have performed capably this year.

Red Sox: Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski is no stranger to headline-grabbing trades, and he was general manager of the Tigers when Detroit drafted Verlander in 2004. With Eduardo Rodriguez’s recent return to health, though, the Red Sox five healthy starting pitchers who each could potentially pitch well for the remainder of the season, and most rumors about the team since their acquisition of infielder Eduardo Nunez have pertained to relievers, not starters.

Mariners: The M’s have been connected to Gray, and the odds that Jerry Dipoto will find a way to insert them into a significant trade can never fully be discounted. They are, however, below .500 at this point and already have big salaries for Felix Hernandez, Robinson Cano, Kyle Seager and Nelson Cruz on the books for 2018.

Royals: Kansas City has been on the lookout for starting pitching, although the Royals have mostly been connected to lower-tier options like Francisco Liriano, Marco Estrada and Jaime Garcia (plus Trevor Cahill, who they already acquired). It would seem extremely unlikely that they’d take on Verlander’s contract, given their uncertain future as an organization and the fact that their 2017 payroll is already the highest they’ve ever had.

Indians: The back of the Indians’ rotation has struggled, although Danny Salazar’s recent return to health helps them in that regard, and trading for a pitcher with Verlander’s salary would be out of character for them.

Braves: The Braves look like longshots at best to acquire Verlander at the deadline, since they aren’t contending, and they recently traded a veteran arm in Garcia. It’s also unclear whether Verlander would be willing to accept a trade to a below-.500 team. If the Braves do acquire someone of Verlander’s ilk, that might be more likely to happen in the offseason. They’ve been connected to a variety of controllable veteran starters, however, and have enough money coming off the books next year that they could theoretically afford him.




So in view of this the Cubs are the natural landing spot.

The jist is Det will pay 2017. But will not cover the rest. That is their offer. Cubs want a Catcher also.

So This is the way it goes:

Cubs add $0 this year.

Cubs drop Lackey and Jake. That is $12.5M from Lackey. $15.6375M Jake. That is 28.13M Ver costs...yep 28 mil. So no gain or loss here. This year or next.
 

CSF77

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Accually it makes too much sense. Lets say the Cubs offer is Caritini and Candi with a arm like Zast (started in AAA and proved to be not that bad shockingly) and Butler. That nets Det 4 players with MLB innings in. IMO that is about the offer that Theo pushes and seeing how they are a 1 realistic team trade partner Det would have to accept it. Now there is no blue chip but it has depth and very little developmental time taken back. Honestly it could end up a steal for Det because Cart and Candy are top 6 prospects in their positions.
 

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