Trubisky vs Lamar Jackson

[Mdbearz]

Like Bearly said below.......


Anyway.....

IDK.......If u thoroughly read the linked article below, if so, I think you'll find that his teammates and coaches are going more in-depth about the different ways he's progressing vs. giving a quick "Company Line." Even his back-up Qb has good things to say. He could have easily avoided commenting.

As preseason opens, Lamar Jackson makes big leap as passer ..
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Yes I can see your point about the some LJ's passes being "dirt balls" without pressure. He's gotta work on mechanics. I notice
u haven't said much about him not throwing lots of INTS. in his
college and pro career any reason? I always look at lots on picks as the sign of an 'atrocious passer', how about u?
-----

Ok Mdbearz, I hear ya on this. It should also be noted that the Ravens went 6-1 and made the playoffs with LJ at Qb as a rookie.
And no, this takes nothing away from what Trubz did as a rookie....lets be clear on that



lol....please note I consistently said Trubz is " going into his 3rd yr. " And we should expect that he'd be ahead of any rookie Qb.
I'll add, Trubz should be ahead of any rookie ( with 6-7 starts) going into his 2nd yr.

I agree with, most of what you are saying, LJ has not thrown a lot of pick, I really can not explain that other than to say he has a tendency to run unless the Pass is clearly open. I never said he was stupid, because he has clearly been careful with the ball.

He is a tremendous athlete that can make people miss with his feet so the team record, was going to reflect that particularly early on, before teams realized that they could not shadow him with a LB, because he would make most look silly, BUT, as teams got more film on him, they were able to “reduce” his running impact.

As far as the coaches and teammates saying the right thing, John Harbaugh has a real grasp on team chemistry and he has developed that Culture that says you support your teammates and players or you play for someone else. He is the Leader, something that his brother has never figured out..

Bottom line for me is that I see that LJ has a fatal flaw in his game, and it will eventually cost the team the opportunity to win a championship.

I tend to think that a QB like Trubisky gives a team a much better chance to win a SB than a QB like Lamar....

 

[run and shoot]

I agree with, most of what you are saying, LJ has not thrown a lot of pick, I really can not explain that other than to say he has a tendency to run unless the Pass is clearly open. I never said he was stupid, because he has clearly been careful with the ball.

He is a tremendous athlete that can make people miss with his feet so the team record, was going to reflect that particularly early on, before teams realized that they could not shadow him with a LB, because he would make most look silly, BUT, as teams got more film on him, they were able to “reduce” his running impact.

As far as the coaches and teammates saying the right thing, John Harbaugh has a real grasp on team chemistry and he has developed that Culture that says you support your teammates and players or you play for someone else. He is the Leader, something that his brother has never figured out..

Bottom line for me is that I see that LJ has a fatal flaw in his game, and it will eventually cost the team the opportunity to win a championship.

I tend to think that a QB like Trubisky gives a team a much better chance to win a SB than a QB like Lamar....

I appreciate you seeing where I'm coming from on some of my points i.e. LJ being smart enuff to not throw into coverages and avoid INTS. That's huge for a Qb, IMO.

I gonna touch of a few things u said here:

BUT, as teams got more film on him, they were able to “reduce” his running impact.

The poster Sculpt and I had this conversation a while back. Teams stop "O" schemes, not just one player. When a team over uses the Spread Ops. scheme it will be stopped at the pro level. There has to be balance. Had the Ravens used a balanced approach in the playoffs vs the Chargers, they might've won.

.......that Culture that says you support your teammates and players or you play for someone else. He is the Leader, something that his brother has never figured out..

Agreed. I also think the Raven players honestly view LJ as a leader too. That's another trait that's huge for a Qb ( we never had that with jay cutler and we were never winners with him. His teammates knew this too)
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My bottom line is the over use of the Spread Ops. is the "fatal flaw" in the Ravens "O" scheme. LJ has proven he can pass the ball with minimal turnovers be a leader and a winner.

As for championships, at this point in time with Trubz going into his 3rd yr. & with our "D".....one would think we'd have a good shot at a SB soon.

As far as the thread topic, I'll go with Bearly's comment below.

It was also his(LJ's) 1st year. Too early to even ask the question.

 

[Adipost]

Cian Fahey makes a valid argument pointing out the double standard being made between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson...

Lamar Jackson’s rookie season re-emphasizes how black quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

 

[Mdbearz]

I appreciate you seeing where I'm coming from on some of my points i.e. LJ being smart enuff to not throw into coverages and avoid INTS. That's huge for a Qb, IMO.

I gonna touch of a few things u said here:



The poster Sculpt and I had this conversation a while back. Teams stop "O" schemes, not just one player. When a team over uses the Spread Ops. scheme it will be stopped at the pro level. There has to be balance. Had the Ravens used a balanced approach in the playoffs vs the Chargers, they might've won.




Agreed. I also think the Raven players honestly view LJ as a leader too. That's another trait that's huge for a Qb ( we never had that with jay cutler and we were never winners with him. His teammates knew this too)
-----

My bottom line is the over use of the Spread Ops. is the "fatal flaw" in the Ravens "O" scheme. LJ has proven he can pass the ball with minimal turnovers be a leader and a winner.

As for championships, at this point in time with Trubz going into his 3rd yr. & with our "D".....one would think we'd have a good shot at a SB soon.

As far as the thread topic, I'll go with Bearly's comment below.

I am actually a big fan of Lamar, because of all the points you have made, and he is one of those guys that goes above and beyond for the fans, especially with the kids.

I am glad to be wrong about his ability to throw, because the Ravens are my second favorite team, but I see him having a career similar to Cam Newton, a very good career, but no ring.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Cian Fahey makes a valid argument pointing out the double standard being made between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson...

Lamar Jackson’s rookie season re-emphasizes how black quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

I don't think there is a double-standard, because I don't think anyone with a brain thinks much of Josh Allen. Any praise thrown Allen's way is usually in terms of "I saw him play at Wyoming, and I thought he'd be the worst 1st round QB in NFL history...he's shown enough to merely be called 'terrible'". The only guy who thought he'd be any good was Mel Kiper, which perhaps garnered sympathy for Allen.

 

[run and shoot]

I don't think there is a double-standard, because I don't think anyone with a brain thinks much of Josh Allen. Any praise thrown Allen's way is usually in terms of "I saw him play at Wyoming, and I thought he'd be the worst 1st round QB in NFL history...he's shown enough to merely be called 'terrible'". The only guy who thought he'd be any good was Mel Kiper, which perhaps garnered sympathy for Allen.

Rory, did u just read & respond to what Adipost said in his post or did you actually go in and read the link he posted ? One of the topics covered in the link dealt with exactly what this person said below:

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jackson turns into a solid WR or DB at some point if he doesn’t dramatically improve his passing skills.

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Yeah, I know it's a long article, however.....
The linked article deals with a lot more than just Josh Allen. It talks about other Qb's, it also raises some additional issues and uncomfortable conversations. There's also a very good break down of LJ in various passing situations. Go ahead and read the link.

I know u can "power through it"

 

[Chris Sojka]

The key to stopping Jackson is literally blitzing corners. QBs with a run first mentality need to make the easy reads in the passing game and are looking for running lanes to open up. Blitz corners and flush him to one side of the field repeatedly. He's looking fir broken plays. But the less field he can work with the less effective he can be.

Jackson, like Wilson depends on broken plays and fatigued defenses. Force them to go one direction dont let them dictate it.

 

[run and shoot]

The key to stopping Jackson is literally blitzing corners. QBs with a run first mentality need to make the easy reads in the passing game and are looking for running lanes to open up. Blitz corners and flush him to one side of the field repeatedly. He's looking fir broken plays. But the less field he can work with the less effective he can be.

Jackson, like Wilson depends on broken plays and fatigued defenses. Force them to go one direction dont let them dictate it.

A few quick things 1) DC's stop schemes not just one player. Football is a 11 man game based on schemes.
Do u realize the scheme that Greg Roman employs on "O"?
Are you familiar with the "O" talent on the Ravens i.e. wr's vs. TE's ?

2) Ok...I assume you're referring to Russell Wilson? Are u familiar with Wilson's 'resume' and his body of work as a NFL Qb? Are u really saying that Wilson's career is based on taking advantage of "broken plays and fatigued defenses." ? If so please provide specific proof i.e. links, articles etc. vs. opinion.

Finally....
Click into Adiposts link and read what it says about the Ravens "O". View the game footage break down of Jackson. Click here>>>>>#63

Afterward, come back and lets talk about the game footage break down on Jackson and his "mentality" as a Qb.

 

[Chris Sojka]

A few quick things 1) DC's stop schemes not just one player. Football is a 11 man game based on schemes.
Do u realize the scheme that Greg Roman employs on "O"?
Are you familiar with the "O" talent on the Ravens i.e. wr's vs. TE's ?

2) Ok...I assume you're referring to Russell Wilson? Are u familiar with Wilson's 'resume' and his body of work as a NFL Qb? Are u really saying that Wilson's career is based on taking advantage of "broken plays and fatigued defenses." ? If so please provide specific proof i.e. links, articles etc. vs. opinion.

Finally....
Click into Adiposts link and read what it says about the Ravens "O". View the game footage break down of Jackson. Click here>>>>>#63

Afterward, come back and lets talk about the game footage break down on Jackson and his "mentality" as a Qb.

What more proof do you need. Good TEs and WRs deminish with QBs like Wilson and Jackson. Players who are not good route runners or possession recievers don't get better playing with him. Its guys willing to give 2nd and 3rd efforts to get open that rack up yards on broken plays. Buying time with athleticism is a gimmick not an offensive playstyle. Wilson had 17 total yards at halftime against the bears. Why? Because the bears werent tired and were athletic enough to force him to stay in the pocket. He cant outrun floyd or Mack. They are too long and athletic to let you extemd plays outside the pocket and Russ doesnt make reads quick enough and isnt gifted enough to change the play to make the right call.

However Seattle was still in the game and as the second half continued he saw a bit more success, why? Because defenders take damage, are a step slower, winded, taking plays off or playing not to give up the big play, resulting in some points given up but not anything big. Eventually Wilson makes his mistake and the game was over.

The Bears dictated the game and influenced bad decisions by the playcaller and decision maker. Against great defenses that stuff doesnt work. Great defenses automatically force you to play a predictable playstyle and beat them man vs man. Example, you got 4.5 seconds before Mack gets to the QB so your WR has to be able to beat his guy 1v1 or we arent successful. If you arent a great defense you just force a predictable pattern onto a QB who plays an unpredictable playstyle. The bears forced him into throwing from the pocket and beat the corners straight up. Which isn't what Wilson is good at.

Jackson same thing dont let him choose his running lane, force him one dirrection and narrow it down and make him predictable. Then if he decides to run you can read the play and have a chance at stopping him.

 

[run and shoot]

What more proof do you need. Good TEs and WRs deminish with QBs like Wilson and Jackson. Players who are not good route runners or possession recievers don't get better playing with him. Its guys willing to give 2nd and 3rd efforts to get open that rack up yards on broken plays. Buying time with athleticism is a gimmick not an offensive playstyle. Wilson had 17 total yards at halftime against the bears. Why? Because the bears werent tired and were athletic enough to force him to stay in the pocket. He cant outrun floyd or Mack. They are too long and athletic to let you extemd plays outside the pocket and Russ doesnt make reads quick enough and isnt gifted enough to change the play to make the right call.

However Seattle was still in the game and as the second half continued he saw a bit more success, why? Because defenders take damage, are a step slower, winded, taking plays off or playing not to give up the big play, resulting in some points given up but not anything big. Eventually Wilson makes his mistake and the game was over.

The Bears dictated the game and influenced bad decisions by the playcaller and decision maker. Against great defenses that stuff doesnt work. Great defenses automatically force you to play a predictable playstyle and beat them man vs man. Example, you got 4.5 seconds before Mack gets to the QB so your WR has to be able to beat his guy 1v1 or we arent successful. If you arent a great defense you just force a predictable pattern onto a QB who plays an unpredictable playstyle. The bears forced him into throwing from the pocket and beat the corners straight up. Which isn't what Wilson is good at.

Jackson same thing dont let him choose his running lane, force him one dirrection and narrow it down and make him predictable. Then if he decides to run you can read the play and have a chance at stopping him.

Buying time with athleticism is a gimmick not an offensive playstyle.

OK when Aaron Rogers does it what do u call it?
When Fran Tarkenton, Rodger Staubach, John Elway, Steve
Young and Mark Brunell did it what do u call it?

Play-action bootlegs, sprint outs, roll-outs, waggles, naked bootlegs .....please look up those terms.
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The Ravens run a Spread Option / run-oriented "O". The Spread Ops. can be shut down over the course of a pro game. The Ravens do not have good wr's. Please learn more about Greg Roman's "O" concept.
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Chris Sojka
Nice Bear vs Seattle game break down. Next.......
Please do some serious research on Russell Wilson's career passing stats and career accomplishments. Thanks

Here... I'll help u get started on your journey..... go ahead and view the link below:

Are Russell Wilson's first three years the best in NFL history?
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And Again please...
Click into Adiposts link and read what it says about the Ravens "O".

SCROLL DOWN AND.....View the game footage break down of Jackson. Click here>>>>>#63

Afterward, come back and lets talk about the game footage break down on Jackson and his "mentality" as a Qb.
Also let's talk about what u really learned about Qb Russell Wilson.

 

[ijustposthere]

I was listening to The Herd with Colin Cowherd the other day and he said Trubisky and Lamar Jackson are very similar. Which one do you all think will have the better career? My money is on Lamar Jackson. Baltimore was trending towards irrelevance until Lamar took over and lead them to the playoffs. He went blow for blow with the great Patrick Mahomes at Arrowhead. His first season was far better than Trubisky’s and he already has as many rushing TDS as Mitch in much fewer games. Lamar doesn’t have an offensive genius as HC to make him look better either. Lamar also isn’t partaking in the backwards hat and scooter nonsense that Trubisky is. There’s so much room for Lamar to grow even better while Trubisky has probably hit his ceiling.

What say you?

How did he say they are similar? Trubisky is, by far, the better passer. Lamar Jackson is a poor man's Mike Vick.

 

[satchice]

How did he say they are similar? Trubisky is, by far, the better passer. Lamar Jackson is a poor man's Mike Vick.

I think he is more of a rich mans’s Tim Tebow, who was also talked about being switched to a TE or FB.

I think Lamar is so talented and dedicated that if he could become an average passer he is going to have a long career in the NFL.

With that said how does LJ compare to Kyle Murray? Who is the better passer?

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

I think he is more of a rich mans’s Tim Tebow, who was also talked about being switched to a TE or FB.

I think Lamar is so talented and dedicated that if he could become an average passer he is going to have a long career in the NFL.

With that said how does LJ compare to Kyle Murray? Who is the better passer?

Kinda hard to compare since one has only played in pre season games and the other is entering his 2nd season in the NFL.

 

[run and shoot]

Cian Fahey makes a valid argument pointing out the double standard being made between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson...

Lamar Jackson’s rookie season re-emphasizes how black quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

There's a lotta good info. and game footage breakdown of LJ's passing in the link u provided above. I think some ppl. are ?‍ away from it because of the title. Which is unfortunate.
The Josh Allen stuff is not the 100% focus of the article.
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For those interested the info. below can be also found in the link above. Coming off his rookie season it's unfair to compare LJ with Trubz, who's going into his 3rd yr. IMO.

Below we can see a better comparison with other Qb's at the same level of experience.

 

[Chris Sojka]

The year Wilson won the superbowl he averaged less than 200 yards a game passing (playoffs). Including 1 game where he threw for 103 yards. Thats pathetic.

He won with a great defense and against defenses that were tired from being on the field all game. He's a bench player anywhere else.

 

[run and shoot]

The year Wilson won the superbowl he averaged less than 200 yards a game passing (playoffs). Including 1 game where he threw for 103 yards. Thats pathetic.

He won with a great defense and against defenses that were tired from being on the field all game. He's a bench player anywhere else.

Unfortunately that great "D" didn't acquire a SB win until the arrival of Qb Russ Wilson.
_________

So Chris.... I'm going refer you back to the linked data you refuse to read & discuss.

1) Are Russell Wilson's first three years the best in NFL history?

2) Adiposts linked article below (and please don't get caught up in the title) As stated earlier, scroll threw the article and take a look at the game footage breakdown of LJ's passing .

Lamar Jackson’s rookie season re-emphasizes how black quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

Also if the data below doesn't show up on a phone, just get it from the linked article above or on a laptop. Look forward to discussing the data with u. Thanks



Just in case.
Here's a expandable link to LJ's rookie accuracy stats as compared to others at his level.
1566598962922.png

 

[Noonthirtyjoe]

I hate stats, LJ's deep pass percentage is high because he runs around long enough for his WRs to separate and not because he is more accurate. Mayfield gets the ball out much quicker and the defender is still in good coverage. Stats without cause are lies told in math.

 

[run and shoot]

I hate stats, LJ's deep pass percentage is high because he runs around long enough for his WRs to separate and not because he is more accurate. Mayfield gets the ball out much quicker and the defender is still in good coverage. Stats without cause are lies told in math.

Please Note this link shows overall accuracy.
1566598962922.png

You don't like the accuracy data provided. Cuz it has LJ at the top in accuracy categories. I wonder how u would've responded if the accuracy data showed him at the bottom??


Anyway.......you say it's just LJ "running around" until a wr gets open. I get it.

In post >>>#76 , the link shows some of what LJ has done from the pocket, when Ravens OT James Hurst isn't getting beat, but you didn't read it.

So now I'll ask......What source do you have that proves your point? What outside tangible evidence can u provide to back up your contention that all LJ does is...."running around" until a wr gets open ?
Hence, his high accuracy in your opinion.

I'll be on the look out for it.
_______

While I wait for your back up source, here's another link below that u won't like nor read it:

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson

QUOTE from the above link:

"Of 45 first-round quarterbacks drafted since Peyton Manning with at least 150 attempts their rookie season, Lamar Jackson posted a HIGHER YPA and a BETTER PASSER RATING in his rookie season than these QBs drafted above him over the last several years: Andrew Luck, Jared Goff, Sam Bradford, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, and Darnold."

 

[Noonthirtyjoe]

Please Note this link shows overall accuracy.
1566598962922.png

You don't like the accuracy data provided. Cuz it has LJ at the top in accuracy categories. I wonder how u would've responded if the accuracy data showed him at the bottom??


Anyway.......you say it's just LJ "running around" until a wr gets open. I get it.

In post >>>#76 , the link shows some of what LJ has done from the pocket, when Ravens OT James Hurst isn't getting beat, but you didn't read it.

So now I'll ask......What source do you have that proves your point? What outside tangible evidence can u provide to back up your contention that all LJ does is...."running around" until a wr gets open ?
Hence, his high accuracy in your opinion.

I'll be on the look out for it.
_______

While I wait for your back up source, here's another link below that u won't like nor read it:

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson

QUOTE from the above link:

"Of 45 first-round quarterbacks drafted since Peyton Manning with at least 150 attempts their rookie season, Lamar Jackson posted a HIGHER YPA and a BETTER PASSER RATING in his rookie season than these QBs drafted above him over the last several years: Andrew Luck, Jared Goff, Sam Bradford, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, and Darnold."

You are right in the fact I won't read it. I just don't care. Good luck to LJ but unless we trade for him I have no real interest. He is not on my team or in my division. I have no problems with the kid, seems like a good person the little I hear about him. But on a side note I never look at stats for any player including ours. Stats are a reflection of a situation and not a good way to judge a individual player. To judge a individual player only the eye can do that.

 

[ijustposthere]

Unfortunately that great "D" didn't acquire a SB win until the arrival of Qb Russ Wilson.
_________

LMAO.