Trubisky vs Lamar Jackson

[ijustposthere]

I think he is more of a rich mans’s Tim Tebow, who was also talked about being switched to a TE or FB.

I think Lamar is so talented and dedicated that if he could become an average passer he is going to have a long career in the NFL.

With that said how does LJ compare to Kyle Murray? Who is the better passer?

Nah, Lamar Jackson is a much better runner than Tebow, and a better passer as well. I haven't seen much of Murray personally. All I've heard is he is a very accurate passer.

 

[run and shoot]

Please Note this link shows overall accuracy.
1566598962922.png

You don't like the accuracy data provided. Cuz it has LJ at the top in accuracy categories. I wonder how u would've responded if the accuracy data showed him at the bottom??


Anyway.......you say it's just LJ "running around" until a wr gets open. I get it.

In post >>>#76 , the link shows some of what LJ has done from the pocket, when Ravens OT James Hurst isn't getting beat, but you didn't read it.

So now I'll ask......What source do you have that proves your point? What outside tangible evidence can u provide to back up your contention that all LJ does is...."running around" until a wr gets open ?
Hence, his high accuracy in your opinion.

I'll be on the look out for it.
_______

While I wait for your back up source, here's another link below that u won't like nor read it:

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson

QUOTE from the above link:

"Of 45 first-round quarterbacks drafted since Peyton Manning with at least 150 attempts their rookie season, Lamar Jackson posted a HIGHER YPA and a BETTER PASSER RATING in his rookie season than these QBs drafted above him over the last several years: Andrew Luck, Jared Goff, Sam Bradford, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, and Darnold."

You are right in the fact I won't read it. I just don't care. Good luck to LJ but unless we trade for him I have no real interest. He is not on my team or in my division. I have no problems with the kid, seems like a good person the little I hear about him. But on a side note I never look at stats for any player including ours. Stats are a reflection of a situation and not a good way to judge a individual player. To judge a individual player only the eye can do that.

Ok...well I thought u "cared" since u went thru the process of posting your comments in this thread.

Stats are a reflection of a situation and not a good way to judge a individual player. To judge a individual player only the eye can do that.

Personally, when I hear ppl. debate about whether a Qb will be in
"the top 10" stat-wise, I always say 'I like stats, but is that Qb a winner?' People always joke about Tebow, but he was a leader and he left the NFL as a winner, with a winning record as a Qb.
---------------

Ok Noonthirtyjoe, you don't like stats that's why I keep encouraging u to look at LJ's linked passing footage breakdown in post>>#76 . The passing footage =FILM breakdown, which would let u put "eyes on LJ's passing", but u refused to look at it. ?‍

 

[Chris Sojka]

I just dont believe in LJ as a QB. I believe any running QB can win with an elite defense. In fact you are better off with a running QB than an mediocre pocket QB if you have an elite defense. However once you pay that QB and the defense leaves you are a mediocre team riding the mediocre play of a QB that needs an elite defense. LJ has an elite defense until he signs his contract. The Ravens should repeat the process of finding an athletic QB rather than signing LJ once the defense is top end. Its easier to win with an elite defense and an offense that relies on broken plays than it is to win with a QB who relies on broken plays and a middle of the pack defense.

 

[run and shoot]

I just dont believe in LJ as a QB. I believe any running QB can win with an elite defense. In fact you are better off with a running QB than an mediocre pocket QB if you have an elite defense. However once you pay that QB and the defense leaves you are a mediocre team riding the mediocre play of a QB that needs an elite defense. LJ has an elite defense until he signs his contract. The Ravens should repeat the process of finding an athletic QB rather than signing LJ once the defense is top end. Its easier to win with an elite defense and an offense that relies on broken plays than it is to win with a QB who relies on broken plays and a middle of the pack defense.

Chris I get your "beliefs".

However, again I'm going refer u back to the info. provided here in post>>>>#63 . Please scroll down to the film on LJ's passing.
Addition info. can be found the the link below...... on LJ's passing accuracy as compared to his peers.
1566598962922.png

And I'm going to also refer u back to this link on Russell Wilson.
Are Russell Wilson's first three years the best in NFL history?

Let me know when you've read and digested the links that I've provided and are ready to discuss them. Thanks and have a good weekend. Go Bears!

 

[Chris Sojka]

Run... i mean all this respectfully.

First off know that I'm mostly here for fun but serious football conversation. Secondly I couldn't care less about meatballing or trolling. Third, though i am passionate about the Bears and might have a bias towards them i try to remain fair to everyone with a valid argument.

Looking at the stats and article you posted I cant help but agree that statistically Russ looks like a superstar on paper. A star with such a bright future that no team would pass on his upside. However, my belief is that given the situation he was in he really played his part as a game manager perfectly as his passer rating and other statistics suggest. Backed up by one of the best defenses ever assembled, Russ managed his offense perfectly in order to get wins and cut up defenses as he wore them down after repeated 3 and outs by his defense and 8 man boxes to stop lynch in short yardage situations. Wilson shined like a star and heaped most of the praise as most QBs do.

The LOB is no longer around though. Lynch is retired. 3rd down and short isn't automatic. Opposing defenses no longer spend 60+% of the time on the field. Wagner might be the most underrated MLB in football, but that won't last forever.

Seattle is a mediocre season away and a bad draft away from a complete rebuild .

Opinion.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

While I wait for your back up source, here's another link below that u won't like nor read it:

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson

QUOTE from the above link:

"Of 45 first-round quarterbacks drafted since Peyton Manning with at least 150 attempts their rookie season, Lamar Jackson posted a HIGHER YPA and a BETTER PASSER RATING in his rookie season than these QBs drafted above him over the last several years: Andrew Luck, Jared Goff, Sam Bradford, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, and Darnold."

Thought this comment was dumb...almost as dumb as R&S complaining that an article which cites a comparative 'double-standard' between Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen isn't really talking about Josh Allen.

These first round QBs who are taken at the top of the 1st round are being taken by the worst teams in the NFL. Manning/Goff/Luck/Bradford/Palmer were all 1st overalls. Wentz and Trubisky were 2nd overall. Not sure why Darnold is even mentioned, as no one thinks he's any good.

Jackson was the last pick of the 1st round. He went to a Ravens team that had gone 9-7. Jackson played in only 7 games his rookie year. His rating was well below league average. The Ravens finished 10-6. Andrew Luck went to a Colts team that was 2-14. Luck started every game and threw for 4300+ yards and the Colts went 11-5.

So, from this data, we should conclude that Jackson was and will be more accurate than Andrew Luck? Got it.

 

[run and shoot]

Thought this comment was dumb...almost as dumb as R&S complaining that an article which cites a comparative 'double-standard' between Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen isn't really talking about Josh Allen.

These first round QBs who are taken at the top of the 1st round are being taken by the worst teams in the NFL. Manning/Goff/Luck/Bradford/Palmer were all 1st overalls. Wentz and Trubisky were 2nd overall. Not sure why Darnold is even mentioned, as no one thinks he's any good.

Jackson was the last pick of the 1st round. He went to a Ravens team that had gone 9-7. Jackson played in only 7 games his rookie year. His rating was well below league average. The Ravens finished 10-6. Andrew Luck went to a Colts team that was 2-14. Luck started every game and threw for 4300+ yards and the Colts went 11-5.

So, from this data, we should conclude that Jackson was and will be more accurate than Andrew Luck? Got it.

Luck, Brissett, Trubz
Rory....you're jumping all over the place, from one thread to another. I want you to please start reading thru the threads and knowing who's posting what. Go over to the Luck retirement thread if u wanna talk about Luck. Thanks.

R&S complaining that an article which cites a comparative 'double-standard' between Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen isn't really talking about Josh Allen.

NO NO NO......It was ADIPOST, NOT ME. SEE BELOW

Cian Fahey makes a valid argument pointing out the double standard being made between Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson...

Lamar Jackson’s rookie season re-emphasizes how black quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard

IF u read this article, WHICH U DID NOT.....you'll find that it covers a myriad of topics....NOT just Josh Allen ( now prove that it's not true). Thoroughly read Adipost's link. Thanks

As for this thread.....there's no comparison I've said this ad nauseam. It's Trubz going into the 3yr.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

NO NO NO......It was ADIPOST, NOT ME. SEE BELOW





IF u read this article, WHICH U DID NOT.....you'll find that it covers a myriad of topics....NOT just Josh Allen ( now prove that it's not true). Thoroughly read Adipost's link. Thanks

As for this thread.....there's no comparison I've said this ad nauseam. It's Trubz going into the 3yr.

I already read the article. It generated my response. I never said that article only spoke of Josh Allen...those are your words. Not sure what your point is with ANY of this (surprise). The post you responded to/avoided was a rebuttal to your idiocy.
The article I responded to said, verbatim:

This past season was a great case study for the institutional racism of football and the draft.

Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills, a 6’5″ 237 lb quarterback whose only real value was his athleticism coming out of college, proved to be a horrendous passer but a great scrambler. His rookie season wasn’t good. He had a 52.8 completion percentage and threw more interceptions than touchdowns. He was the least accurate quarterback ever charted by Pre-Snap Reads charting, not by a small margin either. But the coverage of Allen from major media members has largely been positive. As an example (and not to single out anyone this is literally the first result that came up on a quick google search), Chris Simms of NBC recently said that Allen could be a top five quarterback this time next year:

“I think that (Allen is) a natural leader. You can tell it the way he talks to people, the way people gravitate around him. I had to stop myself, don’t get your own love affair here. Josh Allen is one of those guys that, I would not be shocked if we were sitting here next year and I’m flirting with Josh Allen in the top-five of this list. He’s a man crush of mine, he really is.”

It’s hard to imagine a black quarterback performing to the level that Allen did and still being propped up in such a way. Allen wasn’t just bad, he was inept as a passer. Even considering his supporting cast and when considering his youth. Nothing about his on-field play suggests that he should be talked about as a top-20 starter, never mind a top-5 starter. He has to prove he belongs in the league at all before he can be discussed in those terms.

Of course this isn’t about Simms or Allen specifically, that was just the first link on a google search of Allen’s name.

What this is about is where the focus is. Allen’s potential and not his actual skill set or performance is what determines the narrative around his future. It’s his leadership that matters and that matters more than the fact that Allen can’t hit wide open receivers regularly or diagnose coverages at all at this point in his career. That’s the exact same narrative that allowed him to become the seventh-overall pick in the draft last year despite not being a particularly good college quarterback.

Meanwhile, at the same time, Lamar Jackson barely clung onto his status as a first-round pick despite being a better college player and despite showing off more traits as a passer to project into the NFL than Allen did. Being fair to Chris Simms and to reiterate that he’s not being attacked in any way here, he was one of the few who recognized Jackson’s talent as a quarterback coming out of college.

But Simms was in the minority there. There were far more draft analysts suggesting Jackson would struggle to be an NFL quarterback and almost as many suggesting that he should move to wide receiver or running back. Suggestions that were never put to Josh Allen.

I'm sorry...was anyone other than Mel Kiper Jr. touting Josh Allen as a sure-fire NFL QB who wouldn't struggle to be an NFL QB? Oh wait, I already said this...LAST WEEK! Your continued inability to simply post on a football discussion board continues to astonish.

To sum up, I did read the article and found the double-standard premise to be baseless, because no one was/is 'propping up' Josh Allen. Still the article made more sense than your comparison of Lamar Jackson's accuracy to Andrew Luck's. Cool.

 

[run and shoot]

I already read the article. It generated my response. I never said that article only spoke of Josh Allen...those are your words. Not sure what your point is with ANY of this (surprise). The post you responded to/avoided was a rebuttal to your idiocy.
The article I responded to said, verbatim:

This past season was a great case study for the institutional racism of football and the draft.

Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills, a 6’5″ 237 lb quarterback whose only real value was his athleticism coming out of college, proved to be a horrendous passer but a great scrambler. His rookie season wasn’t good. He had a 52.8 completion percentage and threw more interceptions than touchdowns. He was the least accurate quarterback ever charted by Pre-Snap Reads charting, not by a small margin either. But the coverage of Allen from major media members has largely been positive. As an example (and not to single out anyone this is literally the first result that came up on a quick google search), Chris Simms of NBC recently said that Allen could be a top five quarterback this time next year:


It’s hard to imagine a black quarterback performing to the level that Allen did and still being propped up in such a way. Allen wasn’t just bad, he was inept as a passer. Even considering his supporting cast and when considering his youth. Nothing about his on-field play suggests that he should be talked about as a top-20 starter, never mind a top-5 starter. He has to prove he belongs in the league at all before he can be discussed in those terms.

Of course this isn’t about Simms or Allen specifically, that was just the first link on a google search of Allen’s name.

What this is about is where the focus is. Allen’s potential and not his actual skill set or performance is what determines the narrative around his future. It’s his leadership that matters and that matters more than the fact that Allen can’t hit wide open receivers regularly or diagnose coverages at all at this point in his career. That’s the exact same narrative that allowed him to become the seventh-overall pick in the draft last year despite not being a particularly good college quarterback.

Meanwhile, at the same time, Lamar Jackson barely clung onto his status as a first-round pick despite being a better college player and despite showing off more traits as a passer to project into the NFL than Allen did. Being fair to Chris Simms and to reiterate that he’s not being attacked in any way here, he was one of the few who recognized Jackson’s talent as a quarterback coming out of college.

But Simms was in the minority there. There were far more draft analysts suggesting Jackson would struggle to be an NFL quarterback and almost as many suggesting that he should move to wide receiver or running back. Suggestions that were never put to Josh Allen.

I'm sorry...was anyone other than Mel Kiper Jr. touting Josh Allen as a sure-fire NFL QB who wouldn't struggle to be an NFL QB? Oh wait, I already said this...LAST WEEK! Your continued inability to simply post on a football discussion board continues to astonish.

To sum up, I did read the article and found the double-standard premise to be baseless, because no one was/is 'propping up' Josh Allen. Still the article made more sense than your comparison of Lamar Jackson's accuracy to Andrew Luck's. Cool.

Look I wasn't gonna bother with all the racial "double-standard " stuff as it would probably get the thread locked. So I "powered past it".

I was focusing on the the film analysis of LJ's passing and how he ranked among his rookie peers within said article. Is that foreign to you?

Lamar Jackson's accuracy to Andrew Luck's.

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson
The Joe Schiller's article did...I just quoted it. Schiller was just making an overall case for LJ , the passer vs. the runner. You're skewing the intent of Schiller's article by focusing soley on Luck.

Plus, you came in on the back in of a discussion I was having with Noonthirtyjoe >>>>in post #78 .
------------------------

In post >>>>#65 & #66 . I talked about how the article related to what one poster( Cubby) said, but I also moved past it to talk what the article said about, LJ , the passer vs. the runner. The good break down of LJ in various FILMED passing situations.

The point was to let u know, there was more to the article than Josh Allen. It was to help you process the other parts
of the Adipost link. I pointed it out here as well>>>>#74

Now watch you start focusing on Josh Allen again ?

 

[ChicagoBearsSinceBirth]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Citizens <br>I am humbled by the support from the local populous of this great city of Chicago. I along with the men of the 10th Illinois vow to fight tooth &amp; nail to defend every blade of grass of this great land from enemy advancements. Please support the war effort, buy WarBonds. <a href="https://t.co/2gyvsaF7LI">https://t.co/2gyvsaF7LI</a></p>&mdash; Captain Mitchell Trubisky (@CaptTrubisky10) <a href="

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1166087148002582528

">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Lets Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sept 5th

 

[ChicagoBearsSinceBirth]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2nd part of highlight - shoutout <a href="https://twitter.com/DawindycityP?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@DawindycityP</a> for the best <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bears?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Bears</a> highlights! <a href="https://t.co/ENvoNF4Rn9">pic.twitter.com/ENvoNF4Rn9</a></p>&mdash; Bear Down Burner (@BearBurner) <a href="

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165967782548320257

">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Why You're Wrong to Doubt Lamar Jackson
The Joe Schiller's article did...I just quoted it. Schiller was just making an overall case for LJ , the passer vs. the runner. You're skewing the intent of Schiller's article by focusing soley on Luck.

Cool. Please respond to earlier post that addressed this "issue", verbatim:

These first round QBs who are taken at the top of the 1st round are being taken by the worst teams in the NFL. Manning/Goff/Luck/Bradford/Palmer were all 1st overalls. Wentz and Trubisky were 2nd overall. Not sure why Darnold is even mentioned, as no one thinks he's any good.

Jackson was the last pick of the 1st round. He went to a Ravens team that had gone 9-7. Jackson played in only 7 games his rookie year. His rating was well below league average. The Ravens finished 10-6. Andrew Luck went to a Colts team that was 2-14. Luck started every game and threw for 4300+ yards and the Colts went 11-5.

So, from this data, we should conclude that Jackson was and will be more accurate than Andrew Luck? Got it.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

The point was to let u know, there was more to the article than Josh Allen. It was to help you process the other parts
of the Adipost link.

Thanks. I never said the article was only about Josh Allen, and I was able to process the other parts of the link. I took issue with the article comparing Jackson to Josh Allen, specifically when it said:

This past season was a great case study for the institutional racism of football and the draft.

Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills, a 6’5″ 237 lb quarterback whose only real value was his athleticism coming out of college, proved to be a horrendous passer but a great scrambler. His rookie season wasn’t good. He had a 52.8 completion percentage and threw more interceptions than touchdowns. He was the least accurate quarterback ever charted by Pre-Snap Reads charting, not by a small margin either. But the coverage of Allen from major media members has largely been positive. As an example (and not to single out anyone this is literally the first result that came up on a quick google search), Chris Simms of NBC recently said that Allen could be a top five quarterback this time next year:

“I think that (Allen is) a natural leader. You can tell it the way he talks to people, the way people gravitate around him. I had to stop myself, don’t get your own love affair here. Josh Allen is one of those guys that, I would not be shocked if we were sitting here next year and I’m flirting with Josh Allen in the top-five of this list. He’s a man crush of mine, he really is.”

It’s hard to imagine a black quarterback performing to the level that Allen did and still being propped up in such a way. Allen wasn’t just bad, he was inept as a passer. Even considering his supporting cast and when considering his youth. Nothing about his on-field play suggests that he should be talked about as a top-20 starter, never mind a top-5 starter. He has to prove he belongs in the league at all before he can be discussed in those terms.

Of course this isn’t about Simms or Allen specifically, that was just the first link on a google search of Allen’s name.

What this is about is where the focus is. Allen’s potential and not his actual skill set or performance is what determines the narrative around his future. It’s his leadership that matters and that matters more than the fact that Allen can’t hit wide open receivers regularly or diagnose coverages at all at this point in his career. That’s the exact same narrative that allowed him to become the seventh-overall pick in the draft last year despite not being a particularly good college quarterback.

Meanwhile, at the same time, Lamar Jackson barely clung onto his status as a first-round pick despite being a better college player and despite showing off more traits as a passer to project into the NFL than Allen did. Being fair to Chris Simms and to reiterate that he’s not being attacked in any way here, he was one of the few who recognized Jackson’s talent as a quarterback coming out of college.

But Simms was in the minority there. There were far more draft analysts suggesting Jackson would struggle to be an NFL quarterback and almost as many suggesting that he should move to wide receiver or running back. Suggestions that were never put to Josh Allen.

I'm sorry...was anyone other than Mel Kiper Jr. touting Josh Allen as a sure-fire NFL QB who wouldn't struggle to be an NFL QB? Oh wait, I already said this...LAST WEEK! Your continued inability to simply post on a football discussion board continues to astonish.

To sum up, I did read the article and found the double-standard premise to be baseless, because no one was/is 'propping up' Josh Allen. Still the article made more sense than your comparison of Lamar Jackson's accuracy to Andrew Luck's. Cool.

 

[Mdbearz]

I'm not here to say I was wrong, YET, but Lamar looked very good yesterday and Trubisky did not.

Eating a little crow, but not ready to eat the whole thing yet...

 

[msadows]

I'm not here to say I was wrong, YET, but Lamar looked very good yesterday and Trubisky did not.

Eating a little crow, but not ready to eat the whole thing yet...

It was also miami. (The worst team in football). Lets see what he does next week. Lets not forget Mitch threw 5 tds in a half against the bucs last year and now everyone thinks he's a bum.

 

[WindyCity]

I am a MItch critic and even I can admit that he would hang 400 yards and 5 TDs on the Dolphins who are not even trying to win games.

 

[Mdbearz]

It was also miami. (The worst team in football). Lets see what he does next week. Lets not forget Mitch threw 5 tds in a half against the bucs last year and now everyone thinks he's a bum.

Agreed, it is exactly the same type of situation as Mitch in TB, but some of those long bombs that Lamar threw (I watch the whole game), completely shocked the Miami defense (I'm sure they were game planning for him to run a lot) and me to be honest.

Every team that plays the Ravens will need to respect the deep pass, Nagy/Trubisky have not even threatened to go deep.

 

[playthrough2001]

Any QB playing Miami is going to be real expensive in DFS. They have gutted the team and are absolutely abysmal. Plus, they flat out quit yesterday too. It is going to get much worse.

 

[remydat]

I am a MItch critic and even I can admit that he would hang 400 yards and 5 TDs on the Dolphins who are not even trying to win games.

Not if his first read is covered by Howard.

 

[CRM 114]

Looks like the debate on this is over.