What was the biggest reason we lost to Miami in 2011?

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I was about to say the same thing. He needs to take that attitude to miami. The saddest part is that as a bulls fan, he seeing things from the heats perspective. Saying things like the heats chemistry will get better? But I guess the bulls maxed out. Or the heat have more talent than the bulls? Come on. This is a bulls fan?

Seeing things through the Heat's perspective? I see things through both perspectives while you just are looking at it through only that of the Bulls'.

Yes, if the Bulls get a good SG they will have a very good chance to make it a rough battle with Miami and win the series. The way it is now... they have almost 0 chance of beating them.

In about 5 years, the Bulls will probably pass the aging Heat and take over the East as long as NY doesn't get any great guards or a center.

Until then, it's the Heat's conference to lose... unless the Bulls get a superstar to go along with Rose.

 

[houheffna]

I have stated constantly on this thread that I have NEVER rooted for Lebron to do anything but sign with the Chicago Bulls. I didn't want him to win anything in Cleveland or in Miami. I think he is a great player...yet I was just as hard on him as anybody on this forum after the Finals last year. Maybe too harsh. That said, the MVP stuff...I stand by. At that point in the season, nobody was on the same level as Lebron was. Nobody.


I'm not some lame ass groupie fanboy who thinks the Bulls have all the best players and were the best team in basketball. I'm not that guy...Dick2keva is...this is basketball...this is not professional wrestling. For crying out loud. Dick2keva feels about Rose the way I felt about Hulk Hogan....except I was 10 and dude is like 38 years old! Grow up and quit being a damn fool....then getting mad at me for pointing out the foolishness.

Its not my fault if you look at Bulls players as your heroes...and you're 40 years old! That is not my fault. YOU need to get it together. Maybe if you man up just a little bit you won't have to stalk my every word even though you supposedly blocked me. I still say the league doesn't begin and end with the Bulls...

The fact that Mr. Fisch...a young man, has a more objective point of view than you do...and he missed the Jordan years...is sad. the fact that You claim to have watched, talked to, fondled or whatever you did, every Bull in the early 1990's while you worked at the stadium and you still don't know shit about basketball...is sad.

You watched the greatest to ever play...and you are the dumbest to ever watch him...get it together...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I have stated constantly on this thread that I have NEVER rooted for Lebron to do anything but sign with the Chicago Bulls. I didn't want him to win anything in Cleveland or in Miami. I think he is a great player...yet I was just as hard on him as anybody on this forum after the Finals last year. Maybe too harsh. That said, the MVP stuff...I stand by. At that point in the season, nobody was on the same level as Lebron was. Nobody.


I'm not some lame ass groupie fanboy who thinks the Bulls have all the best players and were the best team in basketball. I'm not that guy...Dick2keva is...this is basketball...this is not professional wrestling. For crying out loud. Dick2keva feels about Rose the way I felt about Hulk Hogan....except I was 10 and dude is like 38 years old! Grow up and quit being a damn fool....then getting mad at me for pointing out the foolishness.


Mr. Fisch...a young man, has a more objective point of view than you do...and he missed the Jordan years

All of the bolded, I strongly agree with.

 

[houheffna]

I think once again there is a fundamental difference of opinion. This stems from whether the 11 bulls were better talentwise than the 11 heat. I guess you can say the heat were the better team cuz they won. But I attribute that to the bulls lack of experience in the playoffs. Especially deep in the playoffs. Just like the bulls/pistons series. The difference from 91 and the rest of years before was that you had a young bulls team trying find their way vs a veteran battle tested piston team. Its not as if the bulls aquired any players that put them over the top. Its just that the core players who were already talented, matured and grew confidence. And once that happend, there was no stopping them.

I see the same thing happening with this bulls team. As their confidence grows, and they continue to learn what it takes to win, they will be able to beat miami. It'll happen a lot sooner with an upgrade at SG, but like rose says, its not needed.

Experience is part of the equation! Experience usually has a direct correlation to basketball IQ. So talent is not the only thing you look at, though the Heat almost always had 2 of the top 3 players on the floor...3 of the top 4...etc.

The Pistons/Bulls stuff was just bad on your part and its very hypocritical. How can you say on one hand that the Bulls are better than the Heat now, and the Pistons, one of the all time great NBA teams wasn't better than the Bulls in the late 1980's? Those Pistons teams had a much deeper team than did the Bulls. Are you kidding me? That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[nwfisch]

Thanks Hou.

What's cold is Glide claimed to have ignored Hou.

You guys disagree about Lebron. I like you both as posters, but there's no need for swiping here.

I don't care for Lebron, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have worshiped him if he wasn't on the Bulls. I would have loved him here.

That said, the reasons why the Bulls lost, is Boozer was empty in game 3, his only big game in the playoffs. And simply, the Heat had Wade and James and we didn't match them.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I didn't say getting abused by them every year is the best case scenario. I said that the chances are that the Bulls will lose to them every season for the next few years - that's what I meant.

Well you done had me fooled with

The Bulls are in all likelihood going to get abused by the Heat for the next several seasons until one of the big three suffers a major injury. That is the Bulls' best hope.

Sounds like best case scenario to me. xD

And yes, if the Heat get their act together then we all have a lot to fear. Heck, there was a lot to be afraid of last season alone. Then we went and swept them in the regular season and people started getting overly hopeful. We lose to them in the playoffs with Rose battling an ankle injury, Noah and Boozer playing hurt and way underperforming, Korver in a shooting slump, and no consistent offensive weapon other than Rose and people start cowering before the Heat again.

The Pistons beat the Lakers in 04 with superior chemistry and a lot of good players. We could potentially play that same role. Rose is better than anyone on that Pistons team. Noah can be like Ben Wallace with more offense. Deng and Boozer are like Prince and Rasheed. The only thing we're missing is that SG. That's why I think with a good SG we can beat them. The Lakers in 04 were probably a bit better than the Heat.

 

[97Bulls]

Experience is part of the equation! Experience usually has a direct correlation to basketball IQ. So talent is not the only thing you look at, though the Heat almost always had 2 of the top 3 players on the floor...3 of the top 4...etc.

The Pistons/Bulls stuff was just bad on your part and its very hypocritical. How can you say on one hand that the Bulls are better than the Heat now, and the Pistons, one of the all time great NBA teams wasn't better than the Bulls in the late 1980's? Those Pistons teams had a much deeper team than did the Bulls. Are you kidding me? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I said the bulls are better than the heat talent-wise. I also said the heat had the advantage in experience. Which is what showed in the fourth quarters.

And I don't see how I'm being a hypocrite. It was obvious the pistons weren't as talented as the bulls. They were just allowed to get away with murder. And it seemed to effect pippen and grant. Pippen esspecially. And it was obvious that the bulls were better than the pistons cuz they swept them. And in convincing fashion. To the point that they really gave up in that fourth game. I fail to see how I contradicted myself.

 

[97Bulls]

Well you done had me fooled with


Sounds like best case scenario to me. xD

And yes, if the Heat get their act together then we all have a lot to fear. Heck, there was a lot to be afraid of last season alone. Then we went and swept them in the regular season and people started getting overly hopeful. We lose to them in the playoffs with Rose battling an ankle injury, Noah and Boozer playing hurt and way underperforming, Korver in a shooting slump, and no consistent offensive weapon other than Rose and people start cowering before the Heat again.

The Pistons beat the Lakers in 04 with superior chemistry and a lot of good players. We could potentially play that same role. Rose is better than anyone on that Pistons team. Noah can be like Ben Wallace with more offense. Deng and Boozer are like Prince and Rasheed. The only thing we're missing is that SG. That's why I think with a good SG we can beat them. The Lakers in 04 were probably a bit better than the Heat.

That 04 laker team would've trounced this past years heat team. And I agree with every bit of your post.

 

[97Bulls]

Seeing things through the Heat's perspective? I see things through both perspectives while you just are looking at it through only that of the Bulls'.

Yes, if the Bulls get a good SG they will have a very good chance to make it a rough battle with Miami and win the series. The way it is now... they have almost 0 chance of beating them.

In about 5 years, the Bulls will probably pass the aging Heat and take over the East as long as NY doesn't get any great guards or a center.

Until then, it's the Heat's conference to lose... unless the Bulls get a superstar to go along with Rose.

Its not gonna be 5 years bro. I just don't see wade being able to play at a high level and go deep in the playoffs to the point of the heat winning a championship for the next 5 years. He's 30 and has a propinsity to be brittle. And I see rose and noah continuing to develope to the piont that when they play, rose will be the undisputed second best player on the floor. Then an older wade. Bosh and boozer will cancel each other out, and the bulls are better after that.

 

[DCguy]

I don't like the Heat(outside of Wade and Juwan Howard) but LeBron did come through in the clutch, and it was mostly with his jumpshot. He was on at the free throw line and was very poised throughout the series.

I think the Heat were the better team during the series because they ran their offense better and got stops and baskets when they needed them most. The Bulls played tough and hopefully they can grow and learn from this. They were right there for the most part.

 

[houheffna]

I said the bulls are better than the heat talent-wise. I also said the heat had the advantage in experience. Which is what showed in the fourth quarters.

And I don't see how I'm being a hypocrite. It was obvious the pistons weren't as talented as the bulls. They were just allowed to get away with murder. And it seemed to effect pippen and grant. Pippen esspecially. And it was obvious that the bulls were better than the pistons cuz they swept them. And in convincing fashion. To the point that they really gave up in that fourth game. I fail to see how I contradicted myself.

You contradicted yourself because you are talking about a team that went to the Finals 3 straight times...had one of the great defenses in NBA history and were a deeper team than the Bulls. The Bulls had to mature into the talent that they had, they were not a better team because they swept the same team they lost to for years straight. The Pistons were 12-6 against the Bulls in the 3 previous seasons' playoffs. Soooooo.....I don't quite get what you are saying.

And in 1991...the Pistons STOPPED getting away with murder? I don't think so...The Pistons were a dirty team, but they were also talented and at their best, easily the best team in the conference and they were the best team in the league. Pippen wasn't as good a player as Joe Dumars at that time...do you really want to debate that? A young Pippen wasn't the player that Dumars was in his prime in the late 1980's....on either side of the floor. Dumars was one of the best guards in the league. Rodman was at his best in those years...the Bulls didn't have a John Salley, let alone a Vinnie Johnson...the Bulls lost to the Pistons because of the Pistons abilities on the court. The Bulls were worried about the Pistons...the Pistons were worried about rings.

Were the Bulls better than the Lakers in 1988? Hell NO! Saying that they were because the Bulls beat the Lakers in 1991 is silly. Same with the Pistons.

 

[houheffna]

Its not gonna be 5 years bro. I just don't see wade being able to play at a high level and go deep in the playoffs to the point of the heat winning a championship for the next 5 years. He's 30 and has a propinsity to be brittle. And I see rose and noah continuing to develope to the piont that when they play, rose will be the undisputed second best player on the floor. Then an older wade. Bosh and boozer will cancel each other out, and the bulls are better after that.

Noah REGRESSED offensively. You see the Bulls getting better and you don't see any of the Heat players improving? Noah is the same age as Lebron damn near. Bosh can't improve? Lebron can't mature as you point out that Pippen did? That is why I say you are being hypocritical.

Looking at one side and one team and thinking everything will be rosy doesn't make you any more of a Bulls fan...it does make you look unreasonable.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Its not gonna be 5 years bro. I just don't see wade being able to play at a high level and go deep in the playoffs to the point of the heat winning a championship for the next 5 years. He's 30 and has a propinsity to be brittle. And I see rose and noah continuing to develope to the piont that when they play, rose will be the undisputed second best player on the floor. Then an older wade. Bosh and boozer will cancel each other out, and the bulls are better after that.

Wade is arguably the second best player in the league right now. He's going to be a better defender than Rose for at least a couple more years and he will be getting 20 points per-game+ for many more years barring injury. If Noah improves into a dependable low-post scorer, that could be the major change this team will need to deal with the Boozer injuries. But that is far from guaranteed. Bosh and Boozer will never cancel each other out- even if God intervened and made it so Boozer would be healthy always. Bosh is a lot better of a defensive player than Boozer is and is much younger. Boozer is going to only decline- injuries or not.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Noah REGRESSED offensively. You see the Bulls getting better and you don't see any of the Heat players improving? Noah is the same age as Lebron damn near. Bosh can't improve? Lebron can't mature as you point out that Pippen did? That is why I say you are being hypocritical.

Looking at one side and one team and thinking everything will be rosy doesn't make you any more of a Bulls fan...it does make you look unreasonable.

Noah did not regress offensively. The thumb injury really took away his jump-shot. Then his timing was really screwed up later on in the season. And he didn't have nearly as big of a role in the offense as he did in 2009-10 before Boozer got there.

The rest I pretty much agree with.

 

[houheffna]

Well you done had me fooled with


Sounds like best case scenario to me. xD

And yes, if the Heat get their act together then we all have a lot to fear. Heck, there was a lot to be afraid of last season alone. Then we went and swept them in the regular season and people started getting overly hopeful. We lose to them in the playoffs with Rose battling an ankle injury, Noah and Boozer playing hurt and way underperforming, Korver in a shooting slump, and no consistent offensive weapon other than Rose and people start cowering before the Heat again.

The Pistons beat the Lakers in 04 with superior chemistry and a lot of good players. We could potentially play that same role. Rose is better than anyone on that Pistons team. Noah can be like Ben Wallace with more offense. Deng and Boozer are like Prince and Rasheed. The only thing we're missing is that SG. That's why I think with a good SG we can beat them. The Lakers in 04 were probably a bit better than the Heat.

Noah AIN"T Ben Wallace...not close. Noah was inept offensively but he didn't dominate on the glass and on defense the way Wallace did...Wallace was the best defensive player in the league in his prime. Noah ain't that guy, and I don't know how he becomes that guy if his game continues a pattern of regression. And don't forget Wade played horribly. You really think the Bulls can shut him down at will? Asik was the Bulls best front court defender in that series. He was amazing out there. Noah was not as effective

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The Pistons beat the Lakers in 2004 mostly because Karl Malone was hurt.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Noah AIN"T Ben Wallace...not close. Noah was inept offensively but he didn't dominate on the glass and on defense the way Wallace did...Wallace was the best defensive player in the league in his prime. Noah ain't that guy, and I don't know how he becomes that guy if his game continues a pattern of regression. And don't forget Wade played horribly. You really think the Bulls can shut him down at will? Asik was the Bulls best front court defender in that series. He was amazing out there. Noah was not as effective

Noah has the potential to be much better overall as a player than Ben Wallace. There is essentially no difference between them on the boards. Wallace was definitely the much better defensive player but Noah can improve in that regard, too.

Offensively-Noah is already ten times better than Wallace ever was. And his post-game is still raw as hell.

Asik may just be a better defender than Noah when it comes to defending the rim. But I think Noah is a little more veratile than Asik and more able to stop penetration on the perimeter.

 

[houheffna]

Noah did not regress offensively. The thumb injury really took away his jump-shot. Then his timing was really screwed up later on in the season. And he didn't have nearly as big of a role in the offense as he did in 2009-10 before Boozer got there.

The rest I pretty much agree with.

Boozer's role in the offense shouldn't have affected Noah's role, because Noah's role was the same regardless. As a matter of fact, his jump in efficiency might have had something to do with Boozer and his role in the offense. I don't believe Boozer took away from Noah's game offensively because Noah doesn't need the ball to affect the offense. He has to rebound most importantly. If he is your best scorer in the front court, you are in trouble. He has to adapt to Boozer's game, not the other way around.

 

[houheffna]

Noah has the potential to be much better overall as a player than Ben Wallace. There is essentially no difference between them on the boards. Wallace was definitely the much better defensive player but Noah can improve in that regard, too.

Offensively-Noah is already ten times better than Wallace ever was. And his post-game is still raw as hell.

Asik may just be a better defender than Noah when it comes to defending the rim. But I think Noah is a little more veratile than Asik and more able to stop penetration on the perimeter.

I don't think Noah can do MUCH better overall than a guy who won 4 DPOY awards in 5 years. I hope he does, but I am not putting that type of pressure on Noah.

And by the way...Ben was a superior rebounder in his prime...

 

[houheffna]

The Pistons beat the Lakers in 2004 mostly because Karl Malone was hurt.

I don't think so...lol