Wikileaks

[Variable]

Just curious if peoples minds would be changed if there was information in the leaks that the U.S., including George W. Bush new full well the 9/11 attacks were coming and let them happen on purpose? Would you still not want that information leaked?

I don't see why not. Why wouldn't you want to know something like that? None of this makes sense to me. Just ask yourself some simple questions and you'll easily see how ridiculous this all is:



Do we deserve to know the truth regarding the ongoing war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen in which our friends, brothers, sisters, fathers, whatever, are fighting and getting hurt or killed in, not to mention the countless innocent people and families in all those respective countries who's lives are forever changed?



Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths; lying us into war, or things like Wikileaks’ revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers back in the '70s with the Vietnam War?



If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information, that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the First Amendment and the independence of the internet?



Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to government when it’s wrong?

 

[TSD]

Now we are playing the "what if" game? Oi Vey



There are elements of secrecy that the general public does not and should not know. We live in a world where the colors bleed into each other and

there is not always the concise answer that will make everyone pleased. On the other hand, there needs to be an element of trust in our government

in order for all of us to turn a blind eye to certain actions knowing that it is the greater good of all. Our government trust level is appearing to diminish

each year and it is part of the rush to see these documents. It is an evil path we are headed and one man having access to it and the ability to release

what he wants and when he wants to is extremely scary to me. Seeing the people that are supporting him is also enlightening and shows those that

do wish ill against our great nation and that is just as treasonous. This is not a political bias issue yet those who have a clear political objective and

support him is disgusting to me.

I do agree with you to a point, and agree with Bubblehead that military operations should be kept secret. The military is a tool of the government and that tool should be able to maintain secrecy.





As far as the government is concerned, I also agree certain things should be kept secret, but its a slippery slope, when the governments boss, the people, get no say in what sort of information should be secret.

 

[phranchk]

My question is more for those that don't want any info leaked. My point is, what if it shows that what you believed about your country isn't true or worse than you imagined? What if it shows that the country you love and are proud to be a part of doesn't have the peoples best interest in mind and are willing to sacrifice 1000's of it's own people for the "good of the country?"

 

[phranchk]

Now we are playing the "what if" game? Oi Vey



There are elements of secrecy that the general public does not and should not know. We live in a world where the colors bleed into each other and

there is not always the concise answer that will make everyone pleased. On the other hand, there needs to be an element of trust in our government

in order for all of us to turn a blind eye to certain actions knowing that it is the greater good of all. Our government trust level is appearing to diminish

each year and it is part of the rush to see these documents. It is an evil path we are headed and one man having access to it and the ability to release

what he wants and when he wants to is extremely scary to me. Seeing the people that are supporting him is also enlightening and shows those that

do wish ill against our great nation and that is just as treasonous. This is not a political bias issue yet those who have a clear political objective and

support him is disgusting to me.

And exactly how do we know that we can trust government if certain things leak that show the exact opposite? So that's why playing the "what if" game because that's all we to go on right now. It's all "what if" at this point.

 

[R K]

Now we are playing the "what if" game? Oi Vey



First "oi vey" is mine ******. Find your own!



There are elements of secrecy that the general public does not and should not know.



Of course but where do you draw the line?



We live in a world where the colors bleed into each other and there is not always the concise answer that will make everyone pleased.



Agreed.



On the other hand, there needs to be an element of trust in our government in order for all of us to turn a blind eye to certain actions knowing that it is the greater good of all.



Depends on what this includes. Our Government is just as responsible for innocent death as those we seek to destroy in some respects. Hypocrisy at it's best?



Our government trust level is appearing to diminish each year and it is part of the rush to see these documents.



Either that or 90% of the rest of the world hates us because we can't just not play God of the World? What's the perception of the US by some of these other countries and why is there that perception?



It is an evil path we are headed and one man having access to it and the ability to release what he wants and when he wants to is extremely scary to me.



So find the person responsible for "stealing" and I use that word liberally because WHO KNOW'S exactly how they got out. Stop the information from leaving instead of crucifying the idiot seeking attention.



Seeing the people that are supporting him is also enlightening and shows those that do wish ill against our great nation and that is just as treasonous.



I don't see anyone in this thread supporting him. As for the "treasonous" part, really? Really? To question is not treasonous. Sorry I'm not following the blind just because they are my Government. Not going to happen.



This is not a political bias issue yet those who have a clear political objective and support him is disgusting to me.



Agreed 100% to anyone that takes the argument that route. It has nothing to do with Politics, rather policy.

 

[R K]

My question is more for those that don't want any info leaked. My point is, what if it shows that what you believed about your country isn't true or worse than you imagined? What if it shows that the country you love and are proud to be a part of doesn't have the peoples best interest in mind and are willing to sacrifice 1000's of it's own people for the "good of the country?"

They specifically mentioned several financial institutions. I want to see that information for sure.

 

[supraman]

Of course this won't stop the leaks and there will be other Wikileaks created. But taking out Assange and that little traitor will certainly send a message to any others out there that want to try it. An example needs to be made here. We can't just have our military wily-nily sending out classified documents when they want.



What the CIA does is covert and classified - if it serves American interests I have no problem with it. I have never seen the CIA share hundreds of thousands of documents and videos with the outside world.

Traitor? Kinda like Washington or Madison, Franklin, you know terrorists on English soil. The Declaration of Independence put American colonists in harms way too.



Is the man a terrorist or a patriot? As for the lives that he might have sacrificed...GTFO of foreign nations and tada no one is put in harms way.



Fluff you are looking at this too narrow minded. Look at the other side for a minute. I promise you America is not always right, hell historically we've probably been the bad guy more than the good guy. I mean two words "Native Americans" nuff said.

 

[Kerfuffle]

You realize that if they "take him out", he releases everything immediately? Either way it looks like he wins. And the CIA, dude, if you look up the history of the CIA, it's tough to say what fucking side they actually serve, if any.

He's going to release it all anyhow. I also don't believe in giving in to terrorism - once you capitulate to their demands they have control.

 

[supraman]

While I support the idea of transparency that this represents, I'm not entirely sure what has been released, why, in what quantities, and I don't feel fully informed. This is the main reason that I bring up the topic, and in the back of my mind is the exact reason you posted in bold.



With all of this coming out and the new found power, how do we authenticate everything he puts out in mass? What's to stop him from in the next release creating his own cable and slipping it in with the others. Something that guides an agenda or he's paid to release?

Now let's look at the other side of the argument. What if Assange has highly sensitive material that will surely hurt us badly and he hasn't released it. What if we leave him alone, maybe he wont release it. Maybe if we go after him he will release as a big **** off.



Also if America cleans up its act after this (It wont be let me dream) the man is a hero. Again I doubt America will ever freely clean up its act.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Now we are playing the "what if" game? Oi Vey



There are elements of secrecy that the general public does not and should not know. We live in a world where the colors bleed into each other and

there is not always the concise answer that will make everyone pleased. On the other hand, there needs to be an element of trust in our government

in order for all of us to turn a blind eye to certain actions knowing that it is the greater good of all. Our government trust level is appearing to diminish

each year and it is part of the rush to see these documents. It is an evil path we are headed and one man having access to it and the ability to release

what he wants and when he wants to is extremely scary to me. Seeing the people that are supporting him is also enlightening and shows those that

do wish ill against our great nation and that is just as treasonous. This is not a political bias issue yet those who have a clear political objective and

support him is disgusting to me.

Well said! A+

 

[supraman]

Now we are playing the "what if" game? Oi Vey



There are elements of secrecy that the general public does not and should not know. We live in a world where the colors bleed into each other and

there is not always the concise answer that will make everyone pleased. On the other hand, there needs to be an element of trust in our government

in order for all of us to turn a blind eye to certain actions knowing that it is the greater good of all. Our government trust level is appearing to diminish

each year and it is part of the rush to see these documents. It is an evil path we are headed and one man having access to it and the ability to release

what he wants and when he wants to is extremely scary to me. Seeing the people that are supporting him is also enlightening and shows those that

do wish ill against our great nation and that is just as treasonous. This is not a political bias issue yet those who have a clear political objective and

support him is disgusting to me.

Wait, I think you must separate two things. America and the American Government. I love American but I want the corrupt broken government to burn. We went away from the ideals of the forefathers, I am not suggesting we become strictly constitutionalist but I think our politicians never factor in the the intent of the forefathers.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Traitor? Kinda like Washington or Madison, Franklin, you know terrorists on English soil. The Declaration of Independence put American colonists in harms way too.



Is the man a terrorist or a patriot? As for the lives that he might have sacrificed...GTFO of foreign nations and tada no one is put in harms way.



Fluff you are looking at this too narrow minded. Look at the other side for a minute. I promise you America is not always right, hell historically we've probably been the bad guy more than the good guy. I mean two words "Native Americans" nuff said.

Native Americans and the anals of history have nothing to do with this. Let's stick with the story at hand and stop justifying what this traitor did as somehow balancing out the egressions the US has committed over the years. Manning took files that were classified. It doesn't matter if you thought they weren't that important or if he didn't either. That was not his call - the US government had reason to classify them and so they did. He betrayed our country by releasing those. And Assange willingly took the info out of his hatred for America. Both of these guys need to be dealt with harshly.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Just curious if peoples minds would be changed if there was information in the leaks that the U.S., including George W. Bush new full well the 9/11 attacks were coming and let them happen on purpose? Would you still not want that information leaked?

Only those nutty conspiracists would hope for that. The sane know that didn't happen and is ridiculous.

 

[supraman]

Only those nutty conspiracists would hope for that. The sane know that didn't happen and is ridiculous.

How do you know for 100% sure? Prove it. Sources.





You can't since you can't trust our government. So though I do not believe it is an inside job you simply cannot rule it out as fantasy. You have to give credit the idea.

 

[TSD]

hahaha I was on the CIA's website and I really really wanted to type "how to break into the CIA" in their search bar.



Is it sad that I am honestly afraid to do that?



Hell i probably just got flagged for typing it here.

How do you know for 100% sure? Prove it. Sources.





You can't since you can't trust our government. So though I do not believe it is an inside job you simply cannot rule it out as fantasy. You have to give credit the idea.

i wont go far as to say prove they didnt. The default position would be that the government had no prior knowledge of 9/11 until evidence comes forward to the contrary, to even create the original doubt, or else the claim of the government having knowledge is simply wild speculation. It may be plausible, and I agree it is plausible, but I cant support it until evidence comes to light.



Theres far more circumstantial evidence for the US government having had prior knowledge of pearl harbor than 9/11 and most historians do not believe that was the case.

 

[phranchk]

Only those nutty conspiracists would hope for that. The sane know that didn't happen and is ridiculous.

No, a nutty conspiracy theorist would say that it was a controlled explosion and not a plane that took down the WTC. This is hypothetical is a lot more plausible and even possible considering Bush new a terrosist attack was imminent. Do I believe it happened, no. Would it surprise me if it did, no.

 

[Variable]

It wouldn't be the first time the government put us in harm's way for some sort of agenda. And if you can't trust the government, why would you trust their explanation of that day?

 

[supraman]

hahaha I was on the CIA's website and I really really wanted to type "how to break into the CIA" in their search bar.



Is it sad that I am honestly afraid to do that?



Hell i probably just got flagged for typing it here.

Wikileaks just posted a snippet that a CIA spec forces team are en route to your house to ass **** you, beat you up, kick you in the gnads waterboard you and then kill you

 

[jakobeast]

Wikileaks just posted a snippet that a CIA spec forces team are en route to your house to ass **** you, beat you up, kick you in the gnads waterboard you and then kill you

And kick his dog.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Only those nutty conspiracists would hope for that. The sane know that didn't happen and is ridiculous.

The "sane" would also want to know so, just like the "conspiracists", they can say they were "right".