Wikileaks

Variable

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Further more Fluff, Im completely with you on the government having first person involvment in 9/11 what with remote control planes disappearing its own citizens etc etc with the rest of the foil hat club.



But your resistance to the idea, the government may "ignore" a little important intel because the result may allow the administration to further some ends, is laughable. (Again not saying they did).





The reason i say that, is I bet you have personally entertained every single Obama conspiracy that has ever had the pleasure of surfacing.



But even that, seriously, has been "entertained' by the government. Back in 1962, there was a plan for numerous false flag attacks to occur in order to whip up public support for a war with Cuba. It was called "Operation Northwoods" and it was declassified back in the late 90s. Again, a matter of public record, it's real. These are the words of our government, not some "tin foil hat nutjob". Straight copy and paste, it stated:



"The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere."



Now you can see how easy you can substitute "Cuba" with any country or enemy. Who knows how many operations like this even existed or continue to exist but here are just a few excerpts of the one that we do know existed, again, straight from the plan:



A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:



a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.

b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.



We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.

The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.



It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.



a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.



b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.



Again, not my words, our government's. It goes on and fucking on like that, talking about holding mock funerals for dead soldiers, all to get more public support for war. Even something as weird as "disappearing it's own citizens", yeah can't rule that out either, again as crazy as it sounds. They were talking about how they could've pulled it off 40+ years ago, I don't see how they wouldn't be able to today.
 

R K

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That's almost like HF50 territory Variable! Not in content, but rather length.
 

Variable

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That's why I bolded the important parts. Maybe Kerfluffle can just read those.
 

MassHavoc

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If they are doing something illegal, I want to know about it.
 

sth

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I agree with TSD. The "leaks" were obvious. North Korea is unstable and may collapse. Putin is a dictator. Things in Iraq weren't going well. These weren't shocking revelations.



As for Pearl Harbor FDR knew but he didn't know. When he cut off oil and scrap iron shipments to Japan he knew they would attack. The naval intel was that Japan would attack Manila harbor which they did the same day. Bush knew Al Qadea wanted to attack but again he didn't know where. These conspiracies give the government way more credit than they deserve. JFK was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald the Warren Commission did a shitty job investigating it but he did do it. He wanted to be remembered for eternity to be famous and he got what he wanted. RFK is more convoluted not sure what that was. MLK was shot by James Earl Ray but he was paid for it by some rich racists not sure who.
 

supraman

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And you can't prove it was a conspiracy. But common sense would tell you that it was terrorism that day and not an 'inside job'. I remember discussing this with someone on the O-boards a couple years ago when NHTA forum was there. The person was saying that photos of a 747 circling the air during 9/11 "proves" that it was the command center for us to blow up the towers ourselves and kill innocent people. What a bunch of bullshit. Given any tragedy in America there will ALWAYS be conspiracists. Hell even some French nut wrote a whole book on how no plan crashed into the Pentagon - his rationale was there was no video so therefore it didn't happen - more BS. Some other conspiracy shit that the unknowing believe was a coverup/conspiracy



1) JFK assassination

2) RFK assassination

3) MLK assassination



and on and on it goes.







Do you not fucking read. I never said it was a conspiracy but there is sufficient distrust of the government and enough quirky things about 9/11 that it MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT READ THAT FUCKING WORD have been more than what we were told. You just believe anything a Republican says. Also again PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT. You are the one talking in absolutes so therefore the BURDEN OF PROOF is on you.



How does the U.S. government taking land from Native Americans have anything to do with Bradley Manning stealing hundreds of thousands of documents in a vile act of treason against this country and giving it to terrorist Assange to divulge to the world?





Because it shows throughout American history that America cannot be trusted the information released in wikileaks proves this.





No there's not. I'll debate you on any of those. Probably a separate thread needed. My guess is you think the JFK assassination is the best case of conspiracy. I'll show you it's not - and I used to be one of those Oliver Stone believers for years. Then after reading and seeing the evidence I came to realize the Warren Commisison got it right.





If you could prove it beyond reasonable doubt there is no debate. Fact is fact, but since you want to debate it. You don't have sufficient facts to just eliminate all other possibilities.
 

supraman

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They just haven't given those "secrets" away yet.



Thank god someone questioned the English Government 200 some years ago. Fluff would be picking English Tea Leaves right now, either that or making an Indian Dream Catcher.





Nah the indians would have sacrificed him to the gods
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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No there's not. I'll debate you on any of those. Probably a separate thread needed. My guess is you think the JFK assassination is the best case of conspiracy. I'll show you it's not - and I used to be one of those Oliver Stone believers for years. Then after reading and seeing the evidence I came to realize the Warren Commisison got it right.





There has to be two or more people working together, or consipring, for any conspiriacy. Does not need to the the gov't and big business either.



And see the famous quote in my sig about evidence
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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Congress had a second investigation back in the 70s regarding both the JFK and MLK assassinations, both using the same sources as the Warren Commission. Take a wild guess which one isn't taught in school and why. It's all a matter of public record.



Besides that, it's funny people keep saying "those crazy conspiracy theorists" especially when it comes to 9/11. Because everyone, no matter what you believe, is choosing to believe in a conspiracy theory explanation. It just depends on which version you believe. Personally, I'm taking them all "under advisement", especially the one in which that party has a history of LYING TO US.





But both of the major parties have a history of lying to us....
 

IceHogsFan

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Conspiracy theorists



I am sure that Manning and Assange have plenty of documentation to confirm how JFK was killed.
 

bubbleheadchief

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Here is the question then, just how much freedom to information should the American People have?



I am not going to argue that 75% of all politicians out there are there to line their own pockets. I know for a fact that various parts of our intel services take the whole "Protecting the American People" too far. but what informatin should the average citizen have access to? Trust me, there are in fact things that the average citizen does not need to know, because it does seriously stand a chance of becoming detrimental to our safety and the ability for people like me and my brothers in arms to protect you.



i am not going to get into the whole debate of legal/illegal wars...simply put we are damned if we do/damned if we dont as the worlds police....no one will ever be happy.



Again, just how much access do you think you need as the average american citizen??
 

phranchk

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Here is the question then, just how much freedom to information should the American People have?



I am not going to argue that 75% of all politicians out there are there to line their own pockets. I know for a fact that various parts of our intel services take the whole "Protecting the American People" too far. but what informatin should the average citizen have access to? Trust me, there are in fact things that the average citizen does not need to know, because it does seriously stand a chance of becoming detrimental to our safety and the ability for people like me and my brothers in arms to protect you.



i am not going to get into the whole debate of legal/illegal wars...simply put we are damned if we do/damned if we dont as the worlds police....no one will ever be happy.



Again, just how much access do you think you need as the average american citizen??

By average I assume you mean anyone not in a military/cia or other position where one could be granted that information?

It's really a hard question to answer. Especially since we don't know what kind of information is being withheld. I'm sure most of it is valid to be withheld because it is truly a matter of national security. I'm also sure there's a lot of information being withheld that is not a matter of security, but are being held back for other reasons. Do you let it all out with the risk some of it may put us in danger? No.

So far what's been leaked has nothing to do with national security. Most of what's been released to date has just confirmed what many have already thought true but had no proof. Sure it isn't very flattering information to the USA or many other countries, but none of it is likely to change the status quo.
 

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