Bears OTAs and Minicamps (Rookie, voluntary, mandatory, coerced, etc.)

[pseudonym]

So anything happing today in the actual camp? JFC you guys. LOL.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798778774504296468

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798764589418770866

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798753697604018215

 

[Spitta Andretti]

So anything happing today in the actual camp? JFC you guys. LOL.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798778774504296468

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798764589418770866

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798753697604018215

that throw to odunze was over Jaylon too

 

[Spitta Andretti]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798760835185312193

 

[SugarWalls]

I've always hated this kind of argument. Just because a guy was a backup for the team that drafted him doesn't mean he's a bad player. Mitch Morse, the guy Bates was backing up, has been easily a top 10 (maybe top 5) center in the NFL for the past decade.

Just because Bates couldn't beat out a pro bowler for a starting job, it doesn't mean that Bates is not a starting caliber player.

Right, and it also doesn't mean he can't easily be a significant upgrade over the shit show that was Lucas Patrick & Whitehair (and Musty before).

@Bort the argument I’m countering is the argument created by @DavidH

Just because a player is better than whitehair or Patrick (not nfl level quality starters) imo is irrelevant. Is bates going to be better than those guys? I sure hope so. Is he going to be able to meaningfully contribute to winning.

Additionally, Mitch Morse was cut by buffalo. I realize buffalo had big cap issues, but they signed Connor McGovern and drafted Sedrick van pran to compete for the starting spot.

Seems like an odd move for buffalo to make if they were high on bates considering mcgovern’s contract is 3 years 22 million, with more money on the books than bates. They also ate some of that cap hit as well iirc

 

[DavidH]

@Bort the argument I’m countering is the argument created by @DavidH

Just because a player is better than whitehair or Patrick (not nfl level quality starters) imo is irrelevant. Is bates going to be better than those guys? I sure hope so. Is he going to be able to meaningfully contribute to winning.

Sometimes good enough is good enough. Especially with the amount of talent on this team. We need competence more than we need greatness (or even very goodness).

Further, Justin also did his OL no favors with his style of play. I think it's fair to say he made everyone look worse than they were (not that they were all great).

 

[SugarWalls]

Sometimes good enough is good enough. Especially with the amount of talent on this team. We need competence more than we need greatness.

Further, Justin also did his OL no favors with his style of play. He made everyone look worse than they were (not that they were all great) with his issues.

Look all I’m trying to say is that this is the exact same sentiment many had with Patrick/whitehair combo not being any worse than the year prior, and that didn’t pan out at all now did it?

Maybe bates comes in and plays middle of the pack or competent enough which I agree is okay (not ideal with a rookie qb), but it’s ridiculous to be satisfied with play just because it’s better than the absolute garbage they had last year.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Send me your resume and I’ll give it to George the next time I’m invited to Halas Hall.

So you'd rather mock me for my opinion than stand on your own.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

McGovern was signed in 23. So last offseason and it was to eventually replace Morse. They had cap trouble but its possible they wouldn't get any relief cutting or moving McGovern because he was signed the year prior. Bates was the easier one to move and a team offered a pick

They also restructured that (McGovern) deal to save money

 

[playthrough2001]

So you'd rather mock me for my opinion than stand on your own.

What opinion of mine am I not standing on?

However, I’m happy to mock you too.

 

[SugarWalls]

McGovern was signed in 23. So last offseason and it was to eventually replace Morse. They had cap trouble but its possible they wouldn't get any relief cutting or moving McGovern because he was signed the year prior. Bates was the easier one to move and a team offered a pick

They also restructured that (McGovern) deal to save money

Don’t you think it’s weird to sign a guy to back up Morse when they have bates there already? Kinda indicates they aren’t that high on bates at center imo. Like all the evidence points to this but we just ignore it or what?

 

[Bort]

@Bort the argument I’m countering is the argument created by @DavidH

Just because a player is better than whitehair or Patrick (not nfl level quality starters) imo is irrelevant. Is bates going to be better than those guys? I sure hope so. Is he going to be able to meaningfully contribute to winning.

Additionally, Mitch Morse was cut by buffalo. I realize buffalo had big cap issues, but they signed Connor McGovern and drafted Sedrick van pran to compete for the starting spot.

Seems like an odd move for buffalo to make if they were high on bates considering mcgovern’s contract is 3 years 22 million, with more money on the books than bates. They also ate some of that cap hit as well iirc

Now you're just making stuff up. McGovern isn't a center. McGovern was the starting LEFT GUARD for Buffalo LAST SEASON, and he will likely remain the starting left guard for Buffalo for the foreseeable future EDIT: apparently, they are considering sliding him to center this season to fill the void left by the Morse cut, but McGovern has been a guard his entire NFL career.

Morse was a pro bowler in 2022 and has been one of the best centers in the NFL for the past decade. The fact that he was a cap casualty for Buffalo this offseason at age 32 doesn't change that. Bates never had a realistic shot of taking Morse's starting job from him.

And Shelton is a known quantity. We already know Shelton is a capable starting center because he only gave up 2 sacks in over 1000 snaps last season as the starting center for a playoff team.

Comparing Shelton/Bates to Patrick/Whitehair is just dumb and I apologize to everyone in this thread for wasting everyone's time watching us argue about it.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

Don’t you think it’s weird to sign a guy to back up Morse when they have bates there already? Kinda indicates they aren’t that high on bates at center imo. Like all the evidence points to this but we just ignore it or what?

I dont think they ever intended to have Bates play C full time. Morse suffered from concussions that had him miss games for multiple seasons and as recent as 22. So they signed McGovern the 23 offseason. So they trade away Bates in 24 and replace him with a rookie center contract and pencil in the guy they already have on the roster as the starter.

I still think Bates would be the backup G/C in Buffalo if Chicago didn't offer a draft pick. Projection on Poles end that Bates can be full time there but he got insurance with Shelton in case of injury or it not working out

 

[SugarWalls]

Now you're just making stuff up. McGovern isn't a center. McGovern was the starting LEFT GUARD for Buffalo LAST SEASON, and he will likely remain the starting left guard for Buffalo for the foreseeable future EDIT: apparently, they are considering sliding him to center this season to fill the void left by the Morse cut, but McGovern has been a guard his entire NFL career.

Morse was a pro bowler in 2022 and has been one of the best centers in the NFL for the past decade. The fact that he was a cap casualty for Buffalo this offseason at age 32 doesn't change that. Bates never had a realistic shot of taking Morse's starting job from him.

And Shelton is a known quantity. We already know Shelton is a capable starting center because he only gave up 2 sacks in over 1000 snaps last season as the starting center for a playoff team.

Comparing Shelton/Bates to Patrick/Whitehair is just dumb and I apologize to everyone in this thread for wasting everyone's time watching us argue about it.

I get the point you’re making about back ups not being bad and I agree with that point but it just seems fckn weird that they are sliding McGovern to potentially play center when if bates was decent why not just keep him???? They also are eating bates signing bonus or something and a fair portion of the cap hit. Why not just keep him?? Why trade bates and eat some of the cap hit when they are strapped for cap instead of just plugging him in. He knows the system and presumably has some chemistry with the team. It’s fckn weird.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

I would love a qb who rushed for 1,000 yards as long as he threw for 4,000.

While exciting…. That style of play still would worry me long term.

 

[Bort]

I get the point you’re making about back ups not being bad and I agree with that point but it just seems fckn weird that they are sliding McGovern to potentially play center when if bates was decent why not just keep him???? They also are eating bates signing bonus or something and a fair portion of the cap hit. Why not just keep him?? Why trade bates and eat some of the cap hit when they are strapped for cap instead of just plugging him in. He knows the system and presumably has some chemistry with the team. It’s fckn weird.

Isn't it even weirder that Buffalo liked Bates enough that they decided to match the Bears' offer for Bates two years ago despite having Morse coming off a pro bowl season and under contract at $10 million a year, then decided to cut Morse and trade Bates away to the Bears this year for a 5th round pick in a deal that now requires Buffalo to eat $4 million of Bates' signing bonus this year as dead cap money? And now the plan is to have a guy who has never played center in the NFL (and only 1 season of center in college) compete with a 5th round rookie for the starting center position? It seems more like the Buffalo front office is scrambling to manage an out of control salary cap situation than that they don't like Bates as a player.

 

[SugarWalls]

Isn't it even weirder that Buffalo liked Bates enough that they decided to match the Bears' offer for Bates two years ago despite having Morse coming off a pro bowl season and under contract at $10 million a year, then decided to cut Morse and trade Bates away to the Bears this year for a 5th round pick in a deal that now requires Buffalo to eat $4 million of Bates' signing bonus this year as dead cap money? And now the plan is to have a guy who has never played center in the NFL (and only 1 season of center in college) compete with a 5th round rookie for the starting center position? It seems more like the Buffalo front office is scrambling to manage an out of control salary cap situation than that they don't like Bates as a player.

Got me there

Edit: the only way it makes sense to me is that bates really isn’t starting caliber.

Maybe it truly is buffalo is fcked completely but maybe they don’t see bates as a starter so no point to keep him.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

Got me there

Edit: the only way it makes sense to me is that bates really isn’t starting caliber.

Maybe it truly is buffalo is fcked completely but maybe they don’t see bates as a starter so no point to keep him.

would have to see mcgoverns contract but i'm guessing buffalo would have had to eat alot more to get rid of him instead of Bates

 

[SugarWalls]

would have to see mcgoverns contract but i'm guessing buffalo would have had to eat alot more to get rid of him instead of Bates

But why not just keep him at guard? Why rely on a rookie mid round pick when you are paying half the cap hit for bates

 

[DavidH]

Look all I’m trying to say is that this is the exact same sentiment many had with Patrick/whitehair combo not being any worse than the year prior, and that didn’t pan out at all now did it?

Maybe bates comes in and plays middle of the pack or competent enough which I agree is okay (not ideal with a rookie qb), but it’s ridiculous to be satisfied with play just because it’s better than the absolute garbage they had last year.

I agree. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I do think both of these guys are better players than Patrick ever was. I didn't like that signing from day one. And the organization's goals were very different at that point, so the fact that they did something that appears similar with him 2 years ago doesn't mean that their evaluations are actually similar.

And, yes, I would've preferred they do something more solid at that position, especially with a rookie QB. Gonna have to trust Poles at this point, tho. And I can't say I'm not ecstatic with the offseason we've had.

 

[DavidH]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798760835185312193

He really does seem like a different guy talking to the media lately (beyond just the makeover, lol).

Doesn't mean he's going to strategize in game any better, but yeah.