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lol. Why does winning a Heisman matter in regards to their pro prospects?? It means nothing in the nfl or the draft
Chase Daniel and Trey Wingo destroying narratives regarding Justin fields
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If Williams is only as good as Luck/Newton/Murray/Lawrence/Goff, then the Bears blew it. He has to be better than those dunces to justify it. Newton had an MVP that was more of an outlier than anything.
jive
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Josh Allen, Terry Bradshaw, Eli Manning, Jim Plunkett, Drew Brees
Just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more
Toast88
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Like I said, get the evaluation right. If you trust in your evaluation, there’s no reason to say, “Well, first round picks bust a lot” as the reason to back out. That tells me you don’t trust your evaluation. GMs don’t think like fans.
I guarantee you that whichever GM takes Williams isn’t saying, “Well damn, I have him as my top guy, but first rounders bust a lot. No deal!”
By the way, my original statement was that saying “We don’t know what X is going to do as a pro” isn’t a legitimate reason to pass on someone. That’s absolutely true, because you could say that about literally any pick ever.
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jive
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You don't know shit. It definitely helped Charlie Ward in the NBA draft.
SugarWalls
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It most definitely is not a direct 1-1 correlation to success, but to act like being named the best player in all of college football doesn't matter.
Remember when everyone wanted to make lamar jackson a WR because 'his style' wouldn't work in the NFL? Guy was a heisman winner, it definitely says something to get this award.
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I'm speaking of guys who are disparaging Caleb Williams to make keeping Fields look more attractive, not a fan who sees both sides of the coin.
SugarWalls
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how in the fck are you lumping these players together? lmao
If williams is as good as luck then thats a home run pick unless fields takes a leap next year.
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My favorite teams
Probably Jim Plunkett, Bradshaw and to a lesser extent Alex Smith. The list is pretty short. Fields will most likely succeed somewhere whether the Bears choose to build around him or not
Toast88
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Not only that—Winning the Heisman means you played really fucking well.
Playing really well in college is one of the biggest correlations to making it in the NFL. Yes, there are plenty of people who played well in college and didn’t make it as a pro. But if you don’t play well in college, you’re probably not going to make it in the NFL.
This isn’t rocket science. Great college tape doesn’t usually come from shitty players.
Wild_x_Card
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Wild_x_Card
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Holy Quote fail Batman
Toast88
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It’s crazy to me for someone to label Luck as simply an “above average starter” and someone you’d be disappointed in picking first, lol. Is this a generation thing? Are there 13 year olds on the board?
jive
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But great college tape doesn't necessarily transfer to the pros.
Here's some former Heisman winners. I'm sure they had some amazing highlight reels.
Chris Weinke
Eric Crouch
Jason White
Matt Leinart
Troy Smith
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Johnny Manziel
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Toast88
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Yeah, that’s what I said.
No one is claiming winning a Heisman automatically makes you a good pro.
Wild_x_Card
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Again define the success? Does anyone truly believe Fields is going to move on and win championships elsewhere? It's not about being good, or relevant, it's about being great. It's about not settling. If you're a GM, do you pass on potential greatness because you're content with the possibility of good? I'm sure there are some GMs that would. In the same breath that's not the type of GM I'm interested in running the franchise I cheer for.
Onna personal level, this has nothing to do with Fields vs insert QB prospect here, moreso a general team building philosophy.
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Toast88
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At what point does self preservation kick in?
1) Most GMs want to pick their own guy. This is a risky offseason no matter which way he goes. Lots of guys would want to face that risk with a guy they picked, not someone they inherited.
2) While it’s true that if you draft Williams and he’s a bust, that would be detrimental to Poles’ job security, it’s just as true that if you pass on Williams and he’s great, your job is also in jeopardy, even if Fields is a solid starter. He already passed on Stroud. If he passes on another great QB, it means he can’t evaluate quarterbacks and everyone knows it. You don’t survive that.
I give everyone here credit. There are lots of reasons to pick one path or the other. But there is also an ego and job security factor that must be taken into account.
1) Most GMs want to pick their own guy. This is a risky offseason no matter which way he goes. Lots of guys would want to face that risk with a guy they picked, not someone they inherited.
2) While it’s true that if you draft Williams and he’s a bust, that would be detrimental to Poles’ job security, it’s just as true that if you pass on Williams and he’s great, your job is also in jeopardy, even if Fields is a solid starter. He already passed on Stroud. If he passes on another great QB, it means he can’t evaluate quarterbacks and everyone knows it. You don’t survive that.
I give everyone here credit. There are lots of reasons to pick one path or the other. But there is also an ego and job security factor that must be taken into account.
SugarWalls
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Bears fans kill goff for his shit play and even at his best is probably not likely to win a superbowl, but suddenly JF currently has shown us he is good enough to actually win a superbowl? amazin
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Depends on the data set but anywhere from 50-60%. QBs tend to be on higher end of that range.