Chase Daniel and Trey Wingo destroying narratives regarding Justin fields

[SugarWalls]

Enjoy some matt leinart highlights! Looks JUST LIKE CALEB WILLIAMS!

 

[1ke]

At what point does self preservation kick in?

1) Most GMs want to pick their own guy. This is a risky offseason no matter which way he goes. Lots of guys would want to face that risk with a guy they picked, not someone they inherited.

2) While it’s true that if you draft Williams and he’s a bust, that would be detrimental to Poles’ job security, it’s just as true that if you pass on Williams and he’s great, your job is also in jeopardy, even if Fields is a solid starter. He already passed on Stroud. If he passes on another great QB, it means he can’t evaluate quarterbacks and everyone knows it. You don’t survive that.


I give everyone here credit. There are lots of reasons to pick one path or the other. But there is also an ego and job security factor that must be taken into account.

I was thinking about this, doesn't Ryan Poles extend his life if he doesn't pick a QB yet? Isn't that giving himself an out and holding that card up his sleeve until he absolutely needs to use it down the road? Just a thought.

 

[remydat]

It’s crazy to me for someone to label Luck as simply an “above average starter” and someone you’d be disappointed in picking first, lol. Is this a generation thing? Are there 13 year olds on the board?

I said Luck is one of the successes but he has a completion % below 61% and a passing rating below 90.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

I was thinking about this, doesn't Ryan Poles extend his life if he doesn't pick a QB yet? Isn't that giving himself an out and holding that card up his sleeve until he absolutely needs to use it down the road? Just a thought.

No. If he doesn't take a qb and fields doesn't take a drastic step next year, it's very possible poles never gets to choose a qb after passing on them at #1 2 straight years

 

[onebud34]

Again define the success? Does anyone truly believe Fields is going to move on and win championships elsewhere? It's not about being good, or relevant, it's about being great. It's about not settling. If you're a GM, do you pass on potential greatness because you're content with the possibility of good? I'm sure there are some GMs that would. In the same breath that's not the type of GM I'm interested in running the franchise I cheer for.

Onna personal level, this has nothing to do with Fields vs insert QB prospect here, moreso a general team building philosophy.

As far college careers go, it's debatable that Fields had the more successful college career. It's entirely possible that Williams is another Matt Leinert, eventhough Leinert had Reggie Bush. And if the Bears don't change a philosophy on offense the new QB that comes in will probably bust. I'm still in the camp of holding onto Fields and build the roster though. I don't think a QB in this draft has the tools to become a via championship QB year in year out

 

[PrideisBears]

Depends on the data set but anywhere from 50-60%. QBs tend to be on higher end of that range.

Eww but makes sense

 

[bamainatlanta]

It most definitely is not a direct 1-1 correlation to success, but to act like being named the best player in all of college football doesn't matter.

Remember when everyone wanted to make lamar jackson a WR because 'his style' wouldn't work in the NFL? Guy was a heisman winner, it definitely says something to get this award.

Yes but again, as you said, it really means nothing.
Just look at the Heisman winners this century. It’s not a good list for the QB’s

Crouch, White, Tebow, Bradford, Winston, Leinart, Smith, Manziel, RG3, mayfield, Weinke.

Only Murray, Jackson, Burrow, and Newton seemed to have mattered in the NFL. It’s almost as if one could make the argument that being a Heisman winner increases the likelihood of a bust.

how in the fck are you lumping these players together? lmao

If williams is as good as luck then thats a home run pick unless fields takes a leap next year.

Did you not read the post? Those guys were not QB’s that made their teammates better and are either above average to slightly above average. I’d rather have Fields and picks or a veteran QB/later 1st round QB than just that. Luck didn’t even have a qb rating above 90 for his career. Those guys have all won nothing in the league and will continue to win nothing.

 

[Toast88]

I was thinking about this, doesn't Ryan Poles extend his life if he doesn't pick a QB yet? Isn't that giving himself an out and holding that card up his sleeve until he absolutely needs to use it down the road? Just a thought.

I mean, who knows. But one could just as easily say he ties his future to Fields if he keeps him.

He also ties his future to something that is completely out of his control—the progression of CJ Stroud & any quarterbacks in this draft he doesn’t take.

Heck, even Bryce Young could make a big step next year and become a better passer than Fields. Not hating, but it wouldn’t take much.

 

[1ke]

I mean, who knows. But one could just as easily say he ties his future to Fields if he keeps him.

He also ties his future to something that is completely out of his control—the progression of CJ Stroud & any quarterbacks in this draft he doesn’t take.

Heck, even Bryce Young could make a big step next year and become a better passer than Fields. Not hating, but it wouldn’t take much.

It could happen. My line of thinking was....

Year 4 of Ryan Poles.... shits getting iffy. Then boom Flus fired, 1st round QB and he turns to Kevin Warren and says let's ride this out, now it's all in. Blah blah blah.

 

[jive]

I mean, who knows. But one could just as easily say he ties his future to Fields if he keeps him.

He also ties his future to something that is completely out of his control—the progression of CJ Stroud & any quarterbacks in this draft he doesn’t take.

Heck, even Bryce Young could make a big step next year and become a better passer than Fields. Not hating, but it wouldn’t take much.

Ultimately, Poles' future will depend on his W-L record.
If the Bears are competitive, make the playoffs, and win the Superbowl nobody is gonna think about Stroud.

 

[Neolithic]

I was thinking about this, doesn't Ryan Poles extend his life if he doesn't pick a QB yet? Isn't that giving himself an out and holding that card up his sleeve until he absolutely needs to use it down the road? Just a thought.

It does not, as ownership can point to the two #1 picks and ask "You had the chance to take your pick of QB's, who now in hindsight ( we're speaking as if it is a few years down the road and lets say a QB taken is currently better than whomever is our QB during said conversation. ) and you chose not to take it. How come your evaluations did not lead you to making a change?"

Sort of like saying "You didn't choose the original left or right pathway when we started, but when the opportunity came to change paths again, you choose to stick with the one that was chosen already."

That in itself can be seen as having played the card in question.

That's a really really simplified look at it, and lots of other things factor into it, things we will never be privy to. Internal pressures, and opinions of people in the decision making tree, etc...

 

[Toast88]

It could happen. My line of thinking was....

Year 4 of Ryan Poles.... shits getting iffy. Then boom Flus fired, 1st round QB and he turns to Kevin Warren and says let's ride this out, now it's all in. Blah blah blah.

Definitely possible, but man, that would take a lot of convincing to your team president who already said he expects championships, plural.

You don’t want to put yourself in a position to have to talk your way into keeping your job at the end of 2024.

If he picks Williams and he doesn’t have a great 2024, Poles could easily write that off as rookie progression, though, and keep his job until it’s clear whether Williams will take the necessary steps or not.

 

[inchibearfan]

Again define the success? Does anyone truly believe Fields is going to move on and win championships elsewhere? It's not about being good, or relevant, it's about being great. It's about not settling. If you're a GM, do you pass on potential greatness because you're content with the possibility of good? I'm sure there are some GMs that would. In the same breath that's not the type of GM I'm interested in running the franchise I cheer for.

Onna personal level, this has nothing to do with Fields vs insert QB prospect here, moreso a general team building philosophy.

Should a GM be content with being a borderline playoff team or should a GM take a swing to be a Super Bowl winning team?

 

[bamainatlanta]

No. If he doesn't take a qb and fields doesn't take a drastic step next year, it's very possible poles never gets to choose a qb after passing on them at #1 2 straight years

If they make the playoffs as a division winner and not some BS 2020 Bears wildcard team, he’ll get extended as the GM.

 

[SugarWalls]

Yes but again, as you said, it really means nothing.
Just look at the Heisman winners this century. It’s not a good list for the QB’s

Crouch, White, Tebow, Bradford, Winston, Leinart, Smith, Manziel, RG3, mayfield, Weinke.

Only Murray, Jackson, Burrow, and Newton seemed to have mattered in the NFL. It’s almost as if one could make the argument that being a Heisman winner increases the likelihood of a bust.


Did you not read the post? Those guys were not QB’s that made their teammates better and are either above average to slightly above average. I’d rather have Fields and picks or a veteran QB/later 1st round QB than just that. Luck didn’t even have a qb rating above 90 for his career. Those guys have all won nothing in the league and will continue to win nothing.

Are we talking about winning the superbowl or just being good enough to be somewhat relevant, maybe win a playoff game, win the division?

Jackson has won NFL MVP 1x and is on track to win MVP for a second time.
Newton won NFL MVP, made it to 1 superbowl.
Burrow is top 3 QB in the league made it to superbowl.
Andrew luck was a top 5 QB in the league and had he not retired early who knows what would've happened.
Thats a pretty stout list.

Do you think Fields is trending towards being an NFL MVP or top 5 QB like the previous guys mentioned, or is he a middling QB or worse trending towards the busts that I didn't name?

Are you fine in passing on QB with the #1 pick to ride with a middling QB? Bears probably won't have this chance in the next 5-10 years unless another GM comes in and completely guts the team ala poles.

 

[inchibearfan]

Yes I already said we will get a pick from trading Fields.

If Fields is that great like some people seem to think, he would definitely bring in 2 1st rd picks plus. What would a team pay to trade for Mahomes?

 

[dennehy]

lol. Why does winning a Heisman matter in regards to their pro prospects?? It means nothing in the nfl or the draft

None of his stats meaning anything. I think that was the point. Useless to compare.

 

[SugarWalls]

Fields is definitely a superbowl caliber player but he's only worth maybe a 2nd round pick! lmao

 

[Washington]

If Fields is that great like some people seem to think, he would definitely bring in 2 1st rd picks plus. What would a team pay to trade for Mahomes?

Me personally, I think a 2nd is about the best the Bears would get for Fields.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Are we talking about winning the superbowl or just being good enough to be somewhat relevant, maybe win a playoff game, win the division?

Jackson has won NFL MVP 1x and is on track to win MVP for a second time.
Newton won NFL MVP, made it to 1 superbowl.
Burrow is top 3 QB in the league made it to superbowl.
Andrew luck was a top 5 QB in the league and had he not retired early who knows what would've happened.
Thats a pretty stout list.

Do you think Fields is trending towards being an NFL MVP or top 5 QB like the previous guys mentioned, or is he a middling QB or worse trending towards the busts that I didn't name?

Are you fine in passing on QB with the #1 pick to ride with a middling QB? Bears probably won't have this chance in the next 5-10 years unless another GM comes in and completely guts the team ala poles.

That’s my point. Most of those guys are middling that went #1 or won the Heisman. Newton’s MVP year was an outlier and flat out choked in the SB. I’m not sold on Williams considering his mental toughness is definitely an issue and his Dad is a massive headache. His own team was celebrating that they were a “team again” when he sat out the bowl game. He refused to speak with reporters after a loss. You think this guy will be able to accept the defeats & criticisms that will most certainly happen in Chicago? Let this mental midget be a problem elsewhere just like 2 other Riley QB’s—Mayfield & Murray.

Even USC’s alumni board recognizes that he was a locker room issue.