Consider the source, but allegedly Watson is plan a, Wilson's plan b.

[nc0gnet0]

It's a legitimate take. You cannot give up so many draft picks at the expense of the whole team.

Ppl keep throwing around how only teams with good QBs get anywhere...let's say the Bears give up two 1sts for Wilson.

How many teams have traded away 4 first round picks in 4 years and went on to do jack shit? Traded away 6 firsts in 13 years? (Not even counting 2nd round picks.)

If any other team did this Bears fans would be laughing about how horriblely managed they are - like Matt Millen bad.

A test of this will be the Rams.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Here is why the argument is incredibly stupid.

You have one of the all-time greats winning Super bowls and skewing whatever arguments you are trying to make.

It's like trying to make the argument in the era of '90s basketball that Superstars don't win NBA titles and then trying to exclude the fact that they have to go up against Michael Jordan in the finals from the equation.

At least with that argument, we have the benefit of seeing that Hakeem olajuwon was good enough to lead a team to repeat without Michael obstructing everything.

And then Jordan came back and it was the Jordan show again.

That is why montucky's take and your take are incredibly stupid.

Neither of you guys are taking into consideration the fact that a lot of Super bowls have been won by one person because he's the all-time best. And you have no way of knowing if he weren't there if your argument would still hold water.

So no, it's not a legitimate take. Which is evident in the way Montucky changes his tune and moves the goal posts when he's seriously challenged on it.

Incredibly stupid is using a reference to basketball, as a source to back up your argument on football.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Jordan never lost when he made it to the Finals. The only thing that disrupted him once the nineties began was his two retirements, other than that he was six for six.

Brady is not six for six. He's lost Super Bowls to the likes of Nick Foles and Eli Manning (twice!). He struggled mightily with those Denver teams, even after Peyton Manning was physically expired. Its not analogous to the Jordan years for a couple reasons. One, football is a different sport than basketball. Two, Tom Brady never had a self-imposed exile. Other teams have intruded on his dynasty with decent regularity, of those teams only one in the last twenty years was helmed by an expensive veteran quarterback. 2006 Colts.

The only reason Tom Brady made it to the SB this last year was his defense. His play against GB was filled with mistakes, and he needed his D to step up, and they did.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

The only reason Tom Brady made it to the SB this last year was his defense. His play against GB was filled with mistakes, and he needed his D to step up, and they did.

And you could say the only reason the Bucs made it to the SB last year was because of Brady. They wouldn’t have won with Winston.

 

[Black Rainbow]

but he is a franchise Qb so I’m not making anything up. You made up how much the bears traded to get Cutler.

Me not remembering the exact details of the Cutler trade from 2009 = "making things up."

Me preferring to spend a load of draft capital on Watson and not Wilson = "no thanks on all franchise QBs."

Okay.

 

[nc0gnet0]

The whole argument basically boils down to proven and expensive vs gamble and cheap.

At this stage in my fandom I’d rather pay for the proven commodity.

The argument really is are the Bears currently in a position to justify making a trade of this nature? Are they in a situation close to the LA Rams, that felt they were just a few key pieces away from making a legit run, or they in a place like the Texans, that even with a legit QB, still would not have a realistic shot? The argument is not really is it worth it, but rather which came first, the Chicken of the Egg?

Otherwise your just pissing in the wind, much like GB has been doing with Aron Rodgers.

 

[Anytime23]

Me not remembering the exact details of the Cutler trade from 2009 = "making things up."

Me preferring to spend a load of draft capital on Watson and not Wilson = "no thanks on all franchise QBs."

Okay.

Ok so you’re too lazy to fact check your argument, not make things up. My bad! Still a terrible comparison because Cutler was never a franchise qb.

Dont change the subject. You said Wilson isn’t a franchise qb. How so? And if Wilson can’t be good with Nagy, then how can Watson?

 

[nc0gnet0]

And you could say the only reason the Bucs made it to the SB last year was because of Brady. They wouldn’t have won with Winston.

Conjecture not based in fact. Probably correct, yes. But the point I am making is they did not win last year based on Brady alone, they assembled a very good team around him. The arguments being made that oppose the trading for Wilson or Watson are based in how good a team can the Bears build around them when faced with the cost of first acquiring them? It's a real argument, and to claim it's not valid is stupid.

 

[Black Rainbow]

Dont change the subject. You said Wilson isn’t a franchise qb.

Please copy and paste the quote where I said this.

If you cannot, don't bother responding.

 

[Anytime23]

Not saying no thanks to a franchise QB. You're making that up. Saying no thanks to a 32 year old Wilson at the expense of the rest of the team.

Two firsts for Deshuan Watson? I'm listening.

go ahead and spin this. This reads as you saying he’s not a franchise qb.

 

[satchice]

By the way, the last three first round picks for the team that just won the Super Bowl?

Tristan Wirfs: Stud
Vita Vea: Stud
Devin White: Stud

I know Vea was injured, but the other two were instrumental to the playoff run. Devin White was flashy but Wirfs was probably the best rookie player in the entire NFL this year. And those two cost them nothing against the cap to be All-Pro quality.

Tristan Wirfs: Stud
Vita Vea: Stud <<<<<<<<<< WILSON
Devin White: Stud

Even if Pace hits on all 3 1st an elite QB trumps 3 stud players.

 

[Anytime23]

I don’t remember halftime being this bad. Did something happen to you or did you run out of adjustments?

 

[Black Rainbow]

go ahead and spin this. This reads as you saying he’s not a franchise qb.

Exactly.

You can't find it because I never said it.

 

[nc0gnet0]

NO THANKS FRANCHISE QB! I don’t want you because the Mack and Cutler trades didn’t work out! The bears would have been much better with an extra Quan Smith or Kevin White. Huh? Y’all must really not want the Bears to ever be legit because this constant illogical reasoning behind not wanting to trade 1st round picks for a real QB is nothing short of insanity. Sorry.

Your argument is a red herring logical fallacy.

Much the same as the other one I hear quite often......

"Pace does poorly with his first round picks, therefore we should not value them."

That doesn't support the argument for trading them all away, only the argument for his dismissal.

 

[Anytime23]

Yeah, the benefit of the hindsight is we know what Wilson is, whereas with Cutler, you didn’t

There were people who kept telling Bears fans that Cutler was no good and no one would listen. He was a 1 hit wonder who gaged when the Broncos needed him the most. Even Josh McDaniels tried telling everyone by trying to get his guy over Cutler. Wilson has over the years been proven. Such a stupid comparison.

 

[Anytime23]

“not saying no thanks to a franchise qb”
“Saying no thanks to a 32 year old Wilson”

Wilson isn’t a franchise QB is what this tells me.

 

[Anytime23]

Your argument is a red herring logical fallacy.

Much the same as the other one I hear quite often......

"Pace does poorly with his first round picks, therefore we should not value them."

That doesn't support the argument for trading them all away, only the argument for his dismissal.

No, pace does poorly with first rounds picks, so I value franchise QBs more than them.

but thanks for the input, lions fan. I’ll ring you when we’re on our 70th year of rebuilding like your team.

 

[Montucky]

The only reason Tom Brady made it to the SB this last year was his defense. His play against GB was filled with mistakes, and he needed his D to step up, and they did.

Its safe to say Tampa Bay was a better and more complete football team than most people realized, even without Brady. Brady knows how to pick em.

 

[ChiGuy]

For like the third time now...I'd listen to two 1sts for Watson.

Also, Nagy & Pace might be gone next year. It's possible those picks would be utilized by the new regime which would be ideal.

But the point is they’re making some kind of move now, or their jobs are forfeit.

I’m happy to keep all picks and for them to be sacked. But I don’t see Pace being a GM again, so doubt he’s just going to surrender his job. As much as one might want Pace/Nagy to be fired, unlikely to do it to themselves.

 

[Montucky]

But the point is they’re making some kind of move now, or their jobs are forfeit.

Not true. If the Bears build the offensive line, get a rookie quarterback and have another draft like one they had in 2020 they will probably win eleven or so games and the NFC North. The division is very weak now. The Lions are tanking, the Vikings might as well be and the Packers just lost two All-Pro's and they still aren't under the salary cap.