DRose Getting The Shaft On Projected MVP Voting

[Chi-Town Brahma]

I hate to break this to you but Lebron James is really fucking good at basketball. he's the best player on the planet by a pretty wide margin.

No shit he's a great player. I will acknowledge that fully. James will always be a stellar athlete/player & in the MVP running. That's common sense. Just stating a case for Durant & pulling for him a bit personally. :bowrofl:

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I will look into it, I plead total ignorance but want to learn more. Especially if you two have read it.

I think you, among many, would really enjoy it.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Puts anything written by Bill Simmons to shame.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I would.

Obviously.

Dallas is better coached and will still probably have considerably better defense.

Dallas have a couple of semi-decent natural centers while the Clippers are dependent on DeAndre Jordan and only DeAndre Jordan.

Dallas has Dirk Nowitzki. Clippers have Blake Griffin. Let's call that a wash. Griffin is the better rebounder by far while Nowitzki is a considerably better scorer.

Caron Butler and Ryan Gomes versus Shawn Marion and Vince Carter? I'm taking the latter.

I like Jason Terry a little bit more as a 2 than Chauncey Billups and Randy Foye.

Chris Paul and Mo Williams are obviously tons better than Kidd and Rodrique Beaubois.

I am going with the Mavs still being better than LAC.

And that is not even bringing up Lamar Odom's name.

 

[BNB]

To me, MVP goes to the best player on one of the top teams that season who has done the most with the least help compared to the other guys being considered.

I think Moses Malone was the last player to win the MVP award in which his team wasn't one of the top 4-5 teams in the league.. and his team was 6th I think. [I checked this a while ago, may be wrong.]

But playing with less talent DOES help you win the MVP. In 2001-2002, Duncan won the MVP when the Spurs finished 58-24. The Lakers also finished 58-24 and The Kings won 61.

Duncan averaged 25/12.7 while shooting 51%. Shaq averaged 27/10.7 while shooting 58%. So why did Duncan win it over Shaq if they won the same amount of wins and shaq put up the same, or slightly better numbers? Because Shaq was playing with Kobe who was averaging 25/5.5/5.5 while the spurs second leading scorer was Robinson with 12.2 a game.

But you also have guys like Nash who won the MVP even though he had a lot of talent around him, and his numbers weren't as good as some other players.

Then you have teams like the 04 Pacers who won 61 games.. but had no one that REALLY stood out over anyone else in the running for MVP. Their best player was J O'neal who averaged 20/10 but shot 43%. Even though KG's team won 3 less, his numbers [24/14/5] were CLEARLY better than O'neal's.

Then there's years when you have your obvious MVP, like when LBJ won it.

I think there's a lot that gets factored in when voting for MVP.

 

[Lex L.]

It doesn't really matter to me if Rose doesn't get it. It's kind of a joke award actually.

But that aside, last year, Rose didn't enter the season as a front runner. He was a dark horse if that. He eventually won it based on what happened during the season. With that in mind, it's kind of silly to be complaining about this two games in.

 

[BNB]

he's [LeBron] the best player on the planet by a pretty wide margin.

WOAH

I guess someone didn't watch First Take this morning... Skip said Durant is slightly better than LBJ. Clearly, everything Skip says is right.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Durant, when all is said and done, is almost a lock over LeBron James for MVP this season for the reasons I have described.

It's not because Durant is the overall better player because he's not. LeBron is.

Unless the Heat finish about 5-10 games better than the OKC Thunder this season, Durant is going to finish with more MVP votes than LeBron James. And rightfully so.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Durant has Westbrook and an otherwise semi-solid team.

James has Wade (who is very similar to him). And Bosh. And, around the three of them- a semi-solid team.

 

[FirstTimer]

Dallas have a couple of semi-decent natural centers while the Clippers are dependent on DeAndre Jordan and only DeAndre Jordan.

Heywood will go back to being pre-Chandler bad.

Caron Butler and Ryan Gomes versus Shawn Marion and Vince Carter? I'm taking the latter.

Vince looks REALLY old..and frankly fat. Marion plays nicely off Dirk. I like Butler and Gomes playing off Paul way more than VC and Marion playing off Kidd.

I like Jason Terry a little bit more as a 2 than Chauncey Billups and Randy Foye.

Terry will be forced to carry more of the load this year. I'll take two players over one in this situation.

Chris Paul and Mo Williams are obviously tons better than Kidd and Rodrique Beaubois.

IMO the most important position in this matchup given what the Clippers will do.

Dallas isn't nearly as versatile and VC I've never been a huge fan of since he left Toronto and quit being as aggressive. Seems to me to be a lot like Boozer...more of a stat compiler than a guy who really makes a difference.

Odom is the wild card..I suspect he clams up this year though. Trading him from LA fucked with his head IMO and he's never been incredibly mentally tough.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I guess I don't understand how James and Wade are very similar

 

[FirstTimer]

I guess I don't understand how James and Wade are very similar

Rami is a clown.

That's how.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Heywood will go back to being pre-Chandler bad.




Vince looks REALLY old..and frankly fat. Marion plays nicely off Dirk. I like Butler and Gomes playing off Paul way more than VC and Marion playing off Kidd.



Terry will be forced to carry more of the load this year. I'll take two players over one in this situation.


IMO the most important position in this matchup given what the Clippers will do.

Dallas isn't nearly as versatile and VC I've never been a huge fan of since he left Toronto and quit being as aggressive. Seems to me to be a lot like Boozer...more of a stat compiler than a guy who really makes a difference.

Odom is the wild card..I suspect he clams up this year though. Trading him from LA fucked with his head IMO and he's never been incredibly mentally tough.

All in all, LAC's offense and rebounding will surely be better than the Mavericks'. I'm sure that will help them over the course of the season.

DAL's defense will likely still be better though. It will be tougher now with Chandler and Stevenson gone, but I just prefer what Carlisle does in terms of adjustments and game-planning on team defense than Vinny Del Negro.

However, head-to-head, I don't like LAC's chances against DAL.

Dallas seems to have at least as much depth at every position but PG (which will help them during the regular season), and they are built to win in close games. Vinny Del Negro... I just don't trust. He likes to get jump-shot happy down the stretch of games. Dallas is probably better still.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I guess I don't understand how James and Wade are very similar

Both are players who prefer the ball being in their hands. Wade can play well off of the ball, but the ball is still in his hands most of the time. Arguably, the Heat would be better off if James was the one playing off of the ball and Wade was the one handling because Wade is a better post player and dribble penetrator.

All in all, they are very similar. They both like to have the ball in their hands. What happens is Spoelstra usually has them take turns isolating. Neither is a particular good three-point shooter but both can get off their shot basically any time at will. Both are solid passers (LeBron being more skilled but Wade better being able to get inside with his dribble to dish it off for easy hoops). Both are exceptional wing rebounders and weak-side defensive players.

If James was gone, Wade would pick up his scoring because his touches would go way up. Vice versa applies as well.

 

[FirstTimer]

Both are players who prefer the ball being in their hands. Wade can play well off of the ball, but the ball is still in his hands most of the time. Arguably, the Heat would be better off if James was the one playing off of the ball and Wade was the one handling because Wade is a better post player and dribble penetrator.

All in all, they are very similar. They both like to have the ball in their hands. What happens is Spoelstra usually has them take turns isolating. Neither is a particular good three-point shooter but both can get off their shot basically any time at will. Both are solid passers (LeBron being more skilled but Wade better being able to get inside with his dribble to dish it off for easy hoops). Both are exceptional wing rebounders and weak-side defensive players.

If James was gone, Wade would pick up his scoring because his touches would go way up. Vice versa applies as well.

Can you repeate they like the ball in their hands anymore?

jesus.

That's pretty much your reasoning for why they are similar.

Wow.


You already concede Wade is good off the ball. James is developing a post game and has shown to be the better passer in his career.

You arguibng that if one or the other is gone that the other's scoring would go up is hilarious.

Duh.

Of course it would.

But that doesn't mean the Heat would be anywhere near as dominant as you are trying to say.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Can you repeate they like the ball in their hands anymore?

jesus.

That's pretty much your reasoning for why they are similar.

Wow.


You already concede Wade is good off the ball. James is developing a post game and has shown to be the better passer in his career.

You arguibng that if one or the other is gone that the other's scoring would go up is hilarious.

Duh.

Of course it would.

But that doesn't mean the Heat would be anywhere near as dominant as you are trying to say.

The Heat would still be pretty dominant offensively and defensively, to say the least.

Right now it stacks up (from the top of my head) about:

James- 26
Wade- 25
Bosh- 18
Chalmers- 11?
Jones- 5
Haslem- 5-8ish

That was last year.

If James left the team out of the blue this year, I see no reason why the Heat could not make-up for most of the scoring they'd lose from James' departure:

Wade- 30ish
Bosh- 22-25
Cole+Chalmers- 15+
Jones+Battier (also play well off the ball for Wade)- 10-12
Haslem- 8ish

Obviously, the scoring efficiency would take a hit. But that is still a deadly offense with a steady diet of offense in crunch time. They would know where the ball would start out at all times.

 

[FirstTimer]

. Blah blah blah made up statistical guessing.

You just took the best player on the planet off their team.

They would not be nearly as dominant.

Qut trying to defend that Special person viewpoint.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You just took the best player on the planet off their team.

They would not be nearly as dominant.

Qut trying to defend that Special person viewpoint.

The difference between the Heat and the Bulls is that you can take one player off of the Heat (named James or Wade) and they would still be title contenders.

Take Rose off of the Bulls and they are around what? 55% winning percentage and first round exit?

 

[houheffna]

Is it really a big deal if Rose doesn't win the MVP?

On this forum, it seems to be a really big deal if you SUGGEST THAT someone other than Rose wins it.

 

[FirstTimer]

The difference between the Heat and the Bulls is that you can take one player off of the Heat (named James or Wade) and they would still be title contenders.

You.

Don't.

Know.

That.


You can't in one thread argue the Heats lack of depth then decapitate the squad of the worlds best player and say they'd be as dominant.

You're awful.