Filling the Bears Needs

[AussieBear]

dis why i be likes windy even though he can shift emotionally n be sold on da opposite at da drip of some maple syrup... windy be gets it..

what are the strengths of fa, da draft? bears need.. like he be had said.. isn't just not about getting good.. its getting betta in areas.... cut the d's and fill with c's if that be your only option etc..

some of us be mad pace played pace and gave up picks for trubs when he didnt have to.. cause of the unknown of said rookies.. measure and formulate all ye want but floors and ceilings be speculation.. some data pushes one towards clearer waters... but... still be unknowns and not written in stone.. dat why picks are so important.. even 7th rd fodder..

on the other hand, free agents generally have years of tape and fer the most part are who they are... some will have an arrow up but in reality that could be they ceiling.. some gets paid and die.. etc etc.. but the unknowns are usually more knowns.. and the costs can be lots vs 2-7rd bois

 

[Mjiton]

Let Heistand decide if McGlinchey is the man to upgrade the OT position. Or if Nelson really is too good to pass up. If Heistand thinks he can improve the current OL or do it with a FA then and only then do I move off OL at #8.

I generally agree with Egg britches and hate trading back. But like he said this year is a good time to trade back.
Although trading back to (no farther than 13 because fuck the packers) and take Ridley. Unless the 49ers take Ridley. Go back to the 2nd round WR plan and trade back for
BPA.

 

[dabears70]

I know you didn't ask me, but I like Carter a lot. He's a lot like Leonard Floyd in that he's long and fast. 6'6", 245 ish. Undersized as a 3-4 OLB, but he's a guy who you can rush off the edge or play off the ball. Good fit in a Bruce Irvin/Anthony Barr type role. 4-3 SAM LB who goes down on the edge and rushes the passer on 3rd down.

I think Bryant can play in the 3-4. I think he'd be a solid LDE who can stop the run and provide some pass rush. Maybe not a double digit sack guy, but should be a solid starter.

B.Irvin is exactly who i was thinking about when i think of L.Carter. He's smaller but would be a nice energy speed rusher that wouldn't play 3 downs but could be used as a situational pass rusher. That would be a lot of speed coming off each edge with him and Floyd in there together. I could see him dropping to the 3rd round.

 

[dabears70]

I have barely dug into this draft class but an early look shows that CB might be the best value if the Bears stay at pick 8.

Regarding OL, the reason you bring a guy like Hiestand here is because he is an excellent coach and developer. So I would be less inclined to grab an OL at 8.

If Pace can trade down then the pool of positions he can select with the first pick will grow exponentially.

While some are saying that now that we got Hiestand we need to draft OL in the 1st round, i was thinking like you here in that now that we got Heistand he can get the best out of what we have now and we don't have to go OL in the 1st. We can get him a guy in the middle of the draft or sign a guy in free agency and let Hiestand get the best out of them.

 

[rawdawg]

Let Heistand decide if McGlinchey is the man to upgrade the OT position. Or if Nelson really is too good to pass up. If Heistand thinks he can improve the current OL or do it with a FA then and only then do I move off OL at #8.

I generally agree with Egg britches and hate trading back. But like he said this year is a good time to trade back.
Although trading back to (no farther than 13 because fuck the packers) and take Ridley. Unless the 49ers take Ridley. Go back to the 2nd round WR plan and trade back for
BPA.

I think the point of hiring a great OL coach like Hiestand is so you don't have to have great talent to put together a strong OL. The Cowboys have like 4 top 60 talents on their OL. With Hiestand, you shouldn't have to do that if he's one of the top OL guys. That's not to say you put trash on the OL like Seattle did because they had Tom Cable (who isn't that great anyway), but it means you can go after guys that are good value that have some upside that can be brought out.

And I'd love to trade down to about 13-16 and then take whoever is there between WR (Ridley), CB (Jackson, Ward), OL (Brown, Williams), or OLB (Davenport, Key, Hubbard)

 

[WindyCity]

I think we have seen many, let him coach up worse talent experiments fail.

Investing in protection is never wrong, just ask the Colts.

 

[pseudonym]

Investing in protection is never wrong, just ask the Colts.

Trubisky got sacked a lot last year, he'll get better, but he likes to go through his progressions. If we can get the OL nailed down, draft some elite talent at T or G, and it'll buy him a few more seconds in the pocket? I'm all for it. I'd be happy going OL-WR-LB with the first three rounds. We could even trade down in the first and then back up from the second, I've seen them do that before with success (we traded back into the first for Alshon, right?).

 

[WindyCity]

If you look at where Nagy is coming from Reid has always invested heavily in the OL.

 

[WindyCity]

Trubisky got sacked a lot last year, he'll get better, but he likes to go through his progressions. If we can get the OL nailed down, draft some elite talent at T or G, and it'll buy him a few more seconds in the pocket? I'm all for it. I'd be happy going OL-WR-LB with the first three rounds. We could even trade down in the first and then back up from the second, I've seen them do that before with success (we traded back into the first for Alshon, right?).

Up in the 2nd I believe

 

[rawdawg]

If you look at where Nagy is coming from Reid has always invested heavily in the OL.

Not much evidence of that in Philly. I also wouldn't exactly say "heavily" in KC, though his 1st pick there was an OT and Mitch Morse was an early pick.

 

[Myk]

Aren't we already high in the second?

 

[pseudonym]

Up in the 2nd I believe

You are correct. 45th pick. The cost of trading back into the first can be high, so that's even better, really.

 

[rawdawg]

I think we have seen many, let him coach up worse talent experiments fail.

Investing in protection is never wrong, just ask the Colts.

Well, the Bears already have a pretty sizeable investment in the OL. This isn't a hypothetical situation we're talking about here. Nobody is saying take run of the mill linemen just because you have a good coach. Between Long, Sitton, Leno and Massie the Bears have nearly 30 million committed to the OL. Throw in Whitehair who was a top 60 draft pick, that's about as much investment as any team has in the OL. We are saying the Bears don't necessarily need to pay a FA 8Mil or draft a guy at #8 on the OL because they have a good OL coach, but also because they have a good OL already.

 

[WindyCity]

Not much evidence of that in Philly. I also wouldn't exactly say "heavily" in KC, though his 1st pick there was an OT and Mitch Morse was an early pick.

Tra Thomas, 1st round
John Runyan, big free agent
Jason Peters, 1st round
Danny Watkins, 1st round
Winston Justice, 2nd round

Eric Fisher, 1st overall
Mitch Morse, 2nd round
Mitchell Schwartz, big free agent

 

[WindyCity]

Well, the Bears already have a pretty sizeable investment in the OL. This isn't a hypothetical situation we're talking about here. Nobody is saying take run of the mill linemen just because you have a good coach. Between Long, Sitton, Leno and Massie the Bears have nearly 30 million committed to the OL. Throw in Whitehair who was a top 60 draft pick, that's about as much investment as any team has in the OL. We are saying the Bears don't necessarily need to pay a FA 8Mil or draft a guy at #8 on the OL because they have a good OL coach, but also because they have a good OL already.

I do not think based on what we saw in 2017 and the health of the unit that they are a good OL.

The real problem is that Long is beat to hell, Sitton may not fit the system that well and makes 9 million, Massie is okay in a system that helps him a lot.

I think the Bears could use an upgrade at RT to make the line really good versus solid.

 

[rawdawg]

Tra Thomas, 1st round
John Runyan, big free agent
Jason Peters, 1st round
Danny Watkins, 1st round
Winston Justice, 2nd round

Eric Fisher, 1st overall
Mitch Morse, 2nd round
Mitchell Schwartz, big free agent

Peters was a 1st round pick for the Bills. But the Eagles did trade a 1st to get him. I'll give you that. I forgot about Tra Thomas and Runyan.

 

[rawdawg]

I do not think based on what we saw in 2017 and the health of the unit that they are a good OL.

The real problem is that Long is beat to hell, Sitton may not fit the system that well and makes 9 million, Massie is okay in a system that helps him a lot.

I think the Bears could use an upgrade at RT to make the line really good versus solid.

I can agree with all of that. But my point was that they already have made investments in the OL.

 

[WindyCity]

I can agree with all of that. But my point was that they already have made investments in the OL.

I know, but it might be time to bail on a couple of reinvest.

 

[rawdawg]

I know, but it might be time to bail on a couple of reinvest.

Yeah, and it's better to bail 1 year early than 1 year late on players. But you'd have to basically spend Massie's money to replace him or Sitton's cap savings money to replace him. Or you'd have to use the 8th or 39th pick. But then that takes away from the ability to shore up CB, WR, OLB. If you get a couple of decent WRs, re-sign Fuller and Amukamara (really don't want to do with the latter), and focus on CB early in the draft, then I can see re-investing on the OL. The only issue there is that decisions on Sitton and Massie have to be made before all of the other decisions, meaning you'd be cutting them without knowing if you can get replacements for them while also filling the other needs. It would be a ballsy move by Pace to re-invest in the OL right now with all the other needs and Long's health.

 

[dabears70]

Trubisky got sacked a lot last year, he'll get better, but he likes to go through his progressions. If we can get the OL nailed down, draft some elite talent at T or G, and it'll buy him a few more seconds in the pocket? I'm all for it. I'd be happy going OL-WR-LB with the first three rounds. We could even trade down in the first and then back up from the second, I've seen them do that before with success (we traded back into the first for Alshon, right?).

Trubs did get sacked a lot this year but there were quite a few times he took the sack when he easily could have thrown it away, instead he would just drop down to the ground on purpose. It annoyed the shit out of me multiple times seeing him take sacks when he didn't have to and is something he'll learn.

We drafted Alshon in the top of the 2nd round and pretty sure we traded up in the 2nd to do so.