If I made a mock draft for what Poles got in this draft...

[remydat]

So much wrong here. Nothing close to factual. When saying the Moore part of the trade is non-negotiable, he was making Moore the focal point and saying the deal doesn't happen without him. Your last few nonsensical posts are just about you trying your damnedest to backtrack from your original claim and obfuscate the fact you were putting 1050 on him and not just saying any 1st in general. It's the coward's way out but you do what you do when proven a fool. Also obvious you don't know the meaning of "in lieu of" cause Moore was the demand and meant to be in lieu of nothing. No Moore, no deal.

You cant be this stupid. One team offers 3 firsts and another team offers 2 firsts and Moore. Moore is replacing a 1st in thr 2nd team's offer jackass.

Poles and Fitterer confirmed this.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You cant be this stupid. One team offers 3 firsts and another team offers 2 firsts and Moore. Moore is replacing a 1st in thr 2nd team's offer jackass.

Poles and Fitterer confirmed this.

I will say you can be this stupid. Of that, I have no doubt. I've seen it many times. Offering a 1st for him wouldn't do a damn thing to prove your asinine 1050 points value put on him. We weren't talking just any 1st, you were specifically claiming a 2023 pick #15 value. Just saying a "first" could mean anything including a '24 or '25 first which ends up being a very late 1st as well. Obvious nowhere close to the 1050 value. Just you backing out of your original claim that you could find nothing to substantiate.

 

[dbldrew]

So much wrong here. Nothing close to factual. When saying the Moore part of the trade is non-negotiable, he was making Moore the focal point and saying the deal doesn't happen without him. Your last few nonsensical posts are just about you trying your damnedest to backtrack from your original claim and obfuscate the fact you were putting 1050 on him and not just saying any 1st in general. It's the coward's way out but you do what you do when proven a fool. Also obvious you don't know the meaning of "in lieu of" cause Moore was the demand and meant to be in lieu of nothing. No Moore, no deal.

Not sure why you are even arguing the 1050 value for Moore anyway. If anything thats a lowball value and should be higher.
The Packers where 3-5 when they put in the 1st round offer which had the potential of being higher then the 1050 value. And the other thing you are forgetting is it was rejected, so a ballpark 1300-1050 range draft pick was NOT enough to get the deal done because it was again.. rejected
So using the low ball 1050 value is really not worth fighting over, unless you are arguing that it should of been a higher value?

 

[remydat]

I will say you can be this stupid. Of that, I have no doubt. I've seen it many times. Offering a 1st for him wouldn't do a damn thing to prove your asinine 1050 points value put on him. We weren't talking just any 1st, you were specifically claiming a 2023 pick #15 value. Just saying a "first" could mean anything including a '24 or '25 first which ends up being a very late 1st as well. Obvious nowhere close to the 1050 value. Just you backing out of your original claim that you could find nothing to substantiate.

Moore is ready to play now so he would be worth a 2023. 2024 and 2025 firsts get discounted a round because they arent playing this year so it would be asinine to value him as a future 1st rounder when he is in fact playing this year jackass.

The Pack offered a 2023 first not a future first. You are being really stupid right now.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Moore is ready to play now so he would be worth a 2023. 2024 and 2025 firsts get discounted a round because they arent playing this year so it would be asinine to value him as a future 1st rounder when he is in fact playing this year jackass.

The Pack offered a 2023 first not a future first. You are being really stupid right now.

Holy shit. WTF? You had to know we weren't talking about the Packer's meaningless rumor from 6 months ago. Maybe not, you are dumber than any I've seen.

You literally said Carolina gave Moore in lieu of a first. After swapping picks with the Bears, they'd have no other 2023 1st to give so what in the world are you talking about? You ARE the weakest link. Good Bye.

 

[remydat]

Holy shit. WTF? You had to know we weren't talking about the Packer's meaningless rumor from 6 months ago. Maybe not, you are dumber than any I've seen.

You literally said Carolina gave Moore in lieu of a first. After swapping picks with the Bears, they'd have no other 2023 1st to give so what in the world are you talking about? You ARE the weakest link. Good Bye.

Missing the point. Moore would be valued at a 2023 first because he can play in 2023. Hence why Poles deemed 2 firsts and Moore as being worth more than 3 firsts.

So we know Moore was worth a first and the Packers trade offer sets his value at around 15 at a minimum. The Panthers GM said his value was even more.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Missing the point. Moore would be valued at a 2023 first because he can play in 2023. Hence why Poles deemed 2 firsts and Moore as being worth more than 3 firsts.

So we know Moore was worth a first and the Packers trade offer sets his value at around 15 at a minimum. The Panthers GM said his value was even more.

No, no, no, no, spineless jackass. Packers have nothing to do with anything. Lets not base his 1050 on a trade the Packers were rumored to attempt 6 months ago and then just by chance ended up with the #15 pick. Why do you have such a problem dealing with what's real? Trade with Packers never happened. It's not real.

How about the actual trade that happened. You now claim he was given in lieu of a 1st. Yes, you claim this in spite of the fact both Poles and Fitterer stated Moore had to be a part of the deal in order to get it done. Still the only 1st you could possibly be talking about, if Moore really was in lieu of a 1st, would be a future 1st round pick.

 

[Bearly]

There are still too many unknowns to formulate DJ Moore's value. Who was the other team? What first round picks were they offering? How many were for 2023? 2024? 2025? Did they pick higher or lower than the Panthers?

The two teams that come to mind that would align with your value proposition would be the Detroit Lions or Seattle Seahawks. Both teams had two first round picks this year, though with Seattle giving Geno an extension, it seems it would make more sense for it to be the Lions to want to trade up for a QB. In that scenario, sure DJ Moore could be compared to a current mid 1st round pick. (Lions has #6 and #18) Otherwise, he is being compared to a future (2024 or 2025) first round pick which has substantially less trade value.

But as I pointed out, the other team and their exact offer isn't known. We know the generalaties, but not specifics which make a big difference. Though I'd bet heavily on it being the Lions

Packers offered a 1st last year near the trade deadline Panther refused and wanted a 1 plus 2.
“They tried to go out there and get Chase Claypool,” Glazer said on the Fox NFL Sunday pregame show for Week 9. “They offered, from what I’m told, up to a 1 for D.J. Moore in Carolina and also tried with the Raiders with Darren Waller, which is interesting because he just signed a new contract. But no, they tried to get Aaron Rodgers some weapon.”

 

[remydat]

No, no, no, no, spineless jackass. Packers have nothing to do with anything. Lets not base his 1050 on a trade the Packers were rumored to attempt 6 months ago and then just by chance ended up with the #15 pick. Why do you have such a problem dealing with what's real? Trade with Packers never happened. It's not real.

How about the actual trade that happened. You now claim he was given in lieu of a 1st. Yes, you claim this in spite of the fact both Poles and Fitterer stated Moore had to be a part of the deal in order to get it done. Still the only 1st you could possibly be talking about, if Moore really was in lieu of a 1st, would be a future 1st round pick.

Once again Poles and Fitterer said another team offered 3 firsts. That means for Poles to accept 2 firsts and Moore it means Moore was valued as a 1st round pick. Why is this hard to understand?

 

[TezMaKai]

Once again Poles and Fitterer said another team offered 3 firsts. That means for Poles to accept 2 firsts and Moore it means Moore was valued as a 1st round pick. Why is this hard to understand?

Lead exposure.

 

[dbldrew]

No, no, no, no, spineless jackass. Packers have nothing to do with anything. Lets not base his 1050 on a trade the Packers were rumored to attempt 6 months ago and then just by chance ended up with the #15 pick. Why do you have such a problem dealing with what's real? Trade with Packers never happened. It's not real.

How about the actual trade that happened. You now claim he was given in lieu of a 1st. Yes, you claim this in spite of the fact both Poles and Fitterer stated Moore had to be a part of the deal in order to get it done. Still the only 1st you could possibly be talking about, if Moore really was in lieu of a 1st, would be a future 1st round pick.

it is real because it was a real offer that was rejected, how are you not understanding this?

Packers where 3-5 when they offered their 1st round pick.. How much was that pic worth? well as a GM you are going to look at the packers and think.. if they continue down the road they are on that is going to be a higher 1st round pick so maybe 1300 range.. or they can turn it around and win more games (like what they did) and the pic would be worth 1050 range

Bottom line is the Packers valued Moore in the 1300-1050 range because they offered a Pic that would fall in that range.. The Panthers value Moore higher then the 1300-1050 range because they rejected the offer.

Its not complicated

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Once again Poles and Fitterer said another team offered 3 firsts. That means for Poles to accept 2 firsts and Moore it means Moore was valued as a 1st round pick. Why is this hard to understand?

Once again, you need validate your 1050 claim. No football source or even crack addict has put that same value on him. Just saying 1st round pick does nothing to prove that 1050 claim. You can be traded for a 1st round pick that is valued under 600, so nothing close to 1050. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Just kidding, I know you struggle mightily mentally.

 

[vabearsfan15]

DJ Moore's value as a first round pick is based on teams offering a first round pick in this year's draft for him including the Packers. After they traded CMC they got multiple offers for Moore at the trade deadline. Those offers were for a 2023 draft pick hence why the Panthers GM is saying he knew Moore was worth a 1st.

Yeah, the Panthers GM knew Moore was generally worth a 1st, but how good of a first is the uknown. He was offered a 1st by the Packers when they were hoping they could make the playoffs. But until the season is over the actual value of that 1st round pick is speculation.

Packers offered a 1st last year near the trade deadline Panther refused and wanted a 1 plus 2.
“They tried to go out there and get Chase Claypool,” Glazer said on the Fox NFL Sunday pregame show for Week 9. “They offered, from what I’m told, up to a 1 for D.J. Moore in Carolina and also tried with the Raiders with Darren Waller, which is interesting because he just signed a new contract. But no, they tried to get Aaron Rodgers some weapon.”

Where is it quoted that the Panthers wanted a 1 and a 2? From what I remember they were firm on keeping him at the time and he was never for sale.

 

[remydat]

Once again, you need validate your 1050 claim. No football source or even crack addict has put that same value on him. Just saying 1st round pick does nothing to prove that 1050 claim. You can be traded for a 1st round pick that is valued under 600, so nothing close to 1050. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Just kidding, I know you struggle mightily mentally.

I already told how I came up with that value ie based on the Packers offer.

Holy shit. WTF? You had to know we weren't talking about the Packer's meaningless rumor from 6 months ago. Maybe not, you are dumber than any I've seen.

However you said we were not talking about the Packers offer but my comment that Poles accepted Moore in lieu of a first round pick. That is a separate argument per you so not sure why you are now trying to bring up the 1050 which was from the Packers offer you yourself said was not the topic. You are lost.

 

[remydat]

Yeah, the Panthers GM knew Moore was generally worth a 1st, but how good of a first is the uknown. He was offered a 1st by the Packers when they were hoping they could make the playoffs. But until the season is over the actual value of that 1st round pick is speculation.

It really doesnt matter what they hoped. They had the 7th worst record in the NFL at the time so people are well within their rights to think they werent going to turn it around.

The value of the first round pick is an estimate. Teams come up with estimates all the time for future picks. The question is whether the estimate is reasonable and estimating that a team with the 7th worst record may end up in the top 10 or top 15 is fair and that is exactly what happened.

 

[Nelly]

Once again Poles and Fitterer said another team offered 3 firsts. That means for Poles to accept 2 firsts and Moore it means Moore was valued as a 1st round pick. Why is this hard to understand?

...and he still got Carolina's 2nd in 2025 too. Baller trade, IMO.

 

[vabearsfan15]

It really doesnt matter what they hoped. They had the 7th worst record in the NFL at the time so people are well within their rights to think they werent going to turn it around.

The value of the first round pick is an estimate. Teams come up with estimates all the time for future picks. The question is whether the estimate is reasonable and estimating that a team with the 7th worst record may end up in the top 10 or top 15 is fair and that is exactly what happened.

Saying they had the 7th worst record is misleading. Eight other teams had either the same record, 3-5, or same amount of wins at the time. Five other teams were 4-4. Greenbay was literally one game out of the final wildcard spot.

In addition, they had young receiving corp and going through growing pains. But Aaron Rodgers is still Aaron Rodgers and coming off of back to back MVPs. A veteran #1 receiver makes a huge difference in that locker room. There is a reason why the Steelers opted to take our 2nd rd pick over Greenbay's. We were also 3-5 at the time too.

To claim you were right in your estimation because Greenbay picked 15th is wrong for the simple fact that they didn't get to play with DJ Moore.

 

[remydat]

Saying they had the 7th worst record is misleading. Eight other teams had either the same record, 3-5, or same amount of wins at the time. Five other teams were 4-4. Greenbay was literally one game out of the final wildcard spot.

In addition, they had young receiving corp and going through growing pains. But Aaron Rodgers is still Aaron Rodgers and coming off of back to back MVPs. A veteran #1 receiver makes a huge difference in that locker room. There is a reason why the Steelers opted to take our 2nd rd pick over Greenbay's. We were also 3-5 at the time too.

To claim you were right in your estimation because Greenbay picked 15th is wrong for the simple fact that they didn't get to play with DJ Moore.

I already said previously they were tied for 7th worst with 7 other teams. That still means at the time they were not better than 15th and they never got better than 15th.

I dont think you understand how estimates work. If you want to say they could have finished better that is fine but the reality is I am free to think they would not have and the actual reality is I was right.

Like what is the end game here? Why go through all of this to just try and downplay what we received?

Here is what we know.

1. The Packers offered a first that ended up being 15.
2. Other teams offer 3 firsts but Poles accepted 2 firsts and Moore.
3. AJ Brown went for a mid first and cost 7.25m more a year.

All of that makes valuing him as a 15th pick entirely fair. You may disagree but your disagreement has less support for it than my estimation.

 

[vabearsfan15]

I already said previously they were tied for 7th worst with 7 other teams. That still means at the time they were not better than 15th and they never got better than 15th.

I dont think you understand how estimates work. If you want to say they could have finished better that is fine but the reality is I am free to think they would not have and the actual reality is I was right.

Like what is the end game here? Why go through all of this to just try and downplay what we received?

Here is what we know.

1. The Packers offered a first that ended up being 15.
2. Other teams offer 3 firsts but Poles accepted 2 firsts and Moore.
3. AJ Brown went for a mid first and cost 7.25m more a year.

All of that makes valuing him as a 15th pick entirely fair. You may disagree but your disagreement has less support for it than my estimation.

You keep saying you "know" something that you do not.

You do not know how the Panther's valued the 1st round pick they were offered by GB. It was a 1st sure. But the value changes dramatically depending on how they exactly value the Packers 1st round pick.

You do not know which teams offered 3 firsts. You do not know which 1st round picks they offered. You do not know which year first round picks were offered.

My point is that each variable makes a difference. You claim an exact 1050 point value, the 15th overall pick value, in your calculations to say the Bears won the trade. Yet if you change this variable to 18th overall pick or 20th, etc, then it dramatically changes the value to where we lose the trade.

 

[Nelly]

You keep saying you "know" something that you do not.

You do not know how the Panther's valued the 1st round pick they were offered by GB. It was a 1st sure. But the value changes dramatically depending on how they exactly value the Packers 1st round pick.

You do not know which teams offered 3 firsts. You do not know which 1st round picks they offered. You do not know which year first round picks were offered.

My point is that each variable makes a difference. You claim an exact 1050 point value, the 15th overall pick value, in your calculations to say the Bears won the trade. Yet if you change this variable to 18th overall pick or 20th, etc, then it dramatically changes the value to where we lose the trade.

I personally don't give a shit about draft pick value charts. Would you rather have selected Will Anderson 1st overall or have DJ Moore, Darnell Wright, Tyrique Stevenson, a 2024 1st and a 2025 2nd? No brainer to me considering we needed a #1 wide receiver more than any other position and got one when there was really no other way to acquire one. No one else was offering that.