Pena Claimed By Yankees (Update: Pulled Back)

[dabynsky]

Yes they need pitching but this FA class is HORRIBLE in SP. Wilson is not a guy you go overpay for. SO AGAIN go get the YOUNG SUPERSTAR STUD Fielder who will be good still in 2 years when he ONLY 30 and the team should be competing. Then NEXT YEAR FA CLASS SP IS STUDLY. Plus you will be losing Zambrano and Dempster contract. So signing a medicore 1B AGAIN is POINTLESS. Signing Fielder isnt just for next year but for the next 5-7 years. Fielder will still be in his PRIME in 2-3 years when Cubs should be competing. Wilson WILL NOT BE. People stop saying Pena is the best option for 1B cause he is NOT!!!! If they dont get Fielder then GO YOUNG. Its pointless to sign medicore guys just to be 15-20 games under .500.

Read this:

Yes they need pitching but this FA class is HORRIBLE in SP. Wilson is not a guy you go overpay for. SO AGAIN go get the YOUNG SUPERSTAR STUD Fielder who will be good still in 2 years when he ONLY 30 and the team should be competing. Then NEXT YEAR FA CLASS SP IS STUDLY. Plus you will be losing Zambrano and Dempster contract. So signing a medicore 1B AGAIN is POINTLESS. Signing Fielder isnt just for next year but for the next 5-7 years. Fielder will still be in his PRIME in 2-3 years when Cubs should be competing. Wilson WILL NOT BE. People stop saying Pena is the best option for 1B cause he is NOT!!!! If they dont get Fielder then GO YOUNG. Its pointless to sign medicore guys just to be 15-20 games under .500.

Perhaps the best guy from that '12 free agent class is already off the board. More guys are likely to be off the boards before this class hits. We need guys to can fill innings now, and waiting is mistake unless you like 90 loss teams. I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that the pitching has been the biggest reason this team sucks and that there is no reason to expect any improvement if left alone.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Read this:

Yes they need pitching but this FA class is HORRIBLE in SP. Wilson is not a guy you go overpay for. SO AGAIN go get the YOUNG SUPERSTAR STUD Fielder who will be good still in 2 years when he ONLY 30 and the team should be competing. Then NEXT YEAR FA CLASS SP IS STUDLY. Plus you will be losing Zambrano and Dempster contract. So signing a medicore 1B AGAIN is POINTLESS. Signing Fielder isnt just for next year but for the next 5-7 years. Fielder will still be in his PRIME in 2-3 years when Cubs should be competing. Wilson WILL NOT BE. People stop saying Pena is the best option for 1B cause he is NOT!!!! If they dont get Fielder then GO YOUNG. Its pointless to sign medicore guys just to be 15-20 games under .500.

how many of those guys will leave their team tho that is the question

hell getting a guy like floyd who can be third in the rotation or a guy in the pen is what is needed..an ace is just icing on the cake..but we seriously need help pitching wise or we may not be much better next year

i sure as hell want fielder,not arguing against that

question is what are our chances in reality in regards to landing him?

we'll have a lot of competition.

i hope a wide net is thrown out this free agency...if u catch my drift

 

[nwfisch]

Read this:

Yes they need pitching but this FA class is HORRIBLE in SP. Wilson is not a guy you go overpay for. SO AGAIN go get the YOUNG SUPERSTAR STUD Fielder who will be good still in 2 years when he ONLY 30 and the team should be competing. Then NEXT YEAR FA CLASS SP IS STUDLY. Plus you will be losing Zambrano and Dempster contract. So signing a medicore 1B AGAIN is POINTLESS. Signing Fielder isnt just for next year but for the next 5-7 years. Fielder will still be in his PRIME in 2-3 years when Cubs should be competing. Wilson WILL NOT BE. People stop saying Pena is the best option for 1B cause he is NOT!!!! If they dont get Fielder then GO YOUNG. Its pointless to sign medicore guys just to be 15-20 games under .500.

Did you just post the same thing twice

I agree you have to try and get Fielder, I think the chances of signing him are slim to none.

Can't wait for next year, after Weaver is already off the market, other SP's will follow.

 

[daddies3angels]

Perhaps the best guy from that '12 free agent class is already off the board. More guys are likely to be off the boards before this class hits. We need guys to can fill innings now, and waiting is mistake unless you like 90 loss teams. I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that the pitching has been the biggest reason this team sucks and that there is no reason to expect any improvement if left alone.

I understand that Pitching has been AWFULL this year. What im telling you is there is NO ONE worth getting in this FA class for SP. Wilson BE OVERPAID, and rest are just 3-5 type guys. So yes Weaver is the 1sst guy off the board for 2013 class. There is STILL 8 other guys that would be major upgrades for Cubs. Again i get the SUPERSTAR this FA class then fill out the SP in 2013 FA class. Signing Wilson and then resigning Pena will not make this team a contender next year. So why not look 2-3 years down the road where Fielder WILL BE A HUGE piece still in his prime. Im not just looking for next year im looking down the road and Fielder makes the most sense by a mile. Its just stupid to keep signing medicore players so they can lose 85 games instead of 90 games. Either get the superstar or GO YOUNG. Stop doing this hald ass bullshit that never works.

 

[daddies3angels]

Did you just post the same thing twice

I agree you have to try and get Fielder, I think the chances of signing him are slim to none. Can't wait for next year, after Weaver is already off the market, other SP's will follow.

I also dont think the owner will shell out the money to get the superstar. But dont then go pay a medicore player 10 mil +. Go young. As for 2013 FA SP class theres no WAY all those guys resign. Maybe 3-4 do but still leaves 4-5 guys worth signing.

 

[dabynsky]

CJ Wilson is such a unique opportunity. That is what I think most people don't recognize at this point. While yes he is 31, he has had nearly a third of the workload of any top of the rotation starter around his age. Wilson has improved on a really great year this year, and has shown no signs of the "Verducci Effect" (granted today the Verducci Effect is reserved for younger pitchers but when he first wrote about the topic it included the phenonem of relievers being converted to starters like Julian Taverez). While Wilson isn't a pitcher in the class of CC, Halladay or Lee, he is a top of the rotation starter and combined with Garza as tweeners between an ace and number 2 starter is the foundation of a rotation we are used to in the northside.

Look the team to the south of us is the perfect example of how a bad offensive club with a good pitching staff can stay in a race versus our team which is a slightly below average offensive club with a terrible pitching staff can lose 90+ games.

 

[nwfisch]

I also dont think the owner will shell out the money to get the superstar. But dont then go pay a medicore player 10 mil +. Go young. As for 2013 FA SP class theres no WAY all those guys resign. Maybe 3-4 do but still leaves 4-5 guys worth signing.

Who says they're keeping Pena at $10M a year?

I don't see all those guys resigning, but as Code and Dabs mentioned, you can't wait til then. :elephant:

 

[dabynsky]

I understand that Pitching has been AWFULL this year. What im telling you is there is NO ONE worth getting in this FA class for SP. Wilson BE OVERPAID, and rest are just 3-5 type guys. So yes Weaver is the 1sst guy off the board for 2013 class. There is STILL 8 other guys that would be major upgrades for Cubs. Again i get the SUPERSTAR this FA class then fill out the SP in 2013 FA class. Signing Wilson and then resigning Pena will not make this team a contender next year. So why not look 2-3 years down the road where Fielder WILL BE A HUGE piece still in his prime. Im not just looking for next year im looking down the road and Fielder makes the most sense by a mile. Its just stupid to keep signing medicore players so they can lose 85 games instead of 90 games. Either get the superstar or GO YOUNG. Stop doing this hald ass bullshit that never works.

I am a huge fan of Prince's dad. He was one of a special group of players when I was growing up. I've been all over the Cubs getting Prince Fielder before Pujols had the injury/off year this season. However, this year and the past year is the prime years of Prince. While I think Prince will do a better job of taking care of himself than his dad, it is hard to look at that body type and not think we will be in Soriano territory four years down the road.

 

[daddies3angels]

Here is the list of SP FA in 2013: No way all of them sign. Il will put * next to guys i like alot that would be upgrades for Cubs big time. Scott Baker (31) - $9.25MM club option
Joe Blanton (32)
Matt Cain (28)**** ACE
Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option (if he does well it will be picked up)
Kevin Correia (32)
John Danks (28)**** (Would be very good in NL)
Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Gavin Floyd (30) - $9.5MM club option**** (Im assuming he be picked up if doing well)
Zack Greinke (28)***** (Still a be very young)
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Cole Hamels (29)***** (ACE)
Dan Haren (32) - $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout
Tim Hudson (37) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)**** (Still young and see how he does next year)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Derek Lowe (40)
Shaun Marcum (31) **** *(Guy can just pitch)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Carl Pavano (37)
Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Anibal Sanchez (29) **** (has very good stuff)
Jonathan Sanchez (30) *** (has very good stuff)
Ervin Santana (30) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout (i think gets picked up unless down year)
Joe Saunders (32)
James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout*** (TBR cant afford that)
Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement

Now for the 1B FA class of 2013:

Aubrey Huff (36) - $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Adam LaRoche (33) - $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Carlos Lee (37)
James Loney (29)
Mike Napoli (31)
Ty Wigginton (35) - $4MM club option with a $500K buyout

All of those guys SUCK^....

So its we get 2+ more years of guy hitting low .200's with 25-30 HR 80 RBI or we go out and sign a 28 y/o SUPERSTAR that hits .280 30-35 HR over 100 RBI for the next 5-7 years....Just common sense to go after Fielder this year. SP class is weak in 2012 and nothing will help Cubs for 2012+ while Fielder WOULD

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I understand that Pitching has been AWFULL this year. What im telling you is there is NO ONE worth getting in this FA class for SP. Wilson BE OVERPAID, and rest are just 3-5 type guys. So yes Weaver is the 1sst guy off the board for 2013 class. There is STILL 8 other guys that would be major upgrades for Cubs. Again i get the SUPERSTAR this FA class then fill out the SP in 2013 FA class. Signing Wilson and then resigning Pena will not make this team a contender next year. So why not look 2-3 years down the road where Fielder WILL BE A HUGE piece still in his prime. Im not just looking for next year im looking down the road and Fielder makes the most sense by a mile. Its just stupid to keep signing medicore players so they can lose 85 games instead of 90 games. Either get the superstar or GO YOUNG. Stop doing this hald ass bullshit that never works.

so there is absolutely no pitcher that is worth even a #3 or #4 spot..which is actually what is more needed than an actual ace?

furthermore, i agree fielder would be a big impact on the team, but

A. I think with him as a huge commodity,there will be a lot of competition,therefore there may be a better chance of getting another bat and maybe a pitcher which we desperately need than chasing fielder..if he comes great...but im apprehensive here

B.Fielder is a damn good player..but he's not going to fix all the issues..he'll help the offense a bit with his power and hitting...the offense will improve..but that itself will NOT fix the team automatically by any stretch..i still doubt we are a contender with just fielder if we dont have pitching support...

i understand the long terms benefits here, im not arguing why i dont want fielder, i definitely want him, but you have to think what are our chances here and what do we have better chances with that are needs?

 

[poodski]

I don't often agree with D3A

but when I do

it's cuz we shouldn't be resigning Peña

 

[daddies3angels]

CJ Wilson is such a unique opportunity. That is what I think most people don't recognize at this point. While yes he is 31, he has had nearly a third of the workload of any top of the rotation starter around his age. Wilson has improved on a really great year this year, and has shown no signs of the "Verducci Effect" (granted today the Verducci Effect is reserved for younger pitchers but when he first wrote about the topic it included the phenonem of relievers being converted to starters like Julian Taverez). While Wilson isn't a pitcher in the class of CC, Halladay or Lee, he is a top of the rotation starter and combined with Garza as tweeners between an ace and number 2 starter is the foundation of a rotation we are used to in the northside.

Look the team to the south of us is the perfect example of how a bad offensive club with a good pitching staff can stay in a race versus our team which is a slightly below average offensive club with a terrible pitching staff can lose 90+ games.

Wilson is going to cost 15 mil +. Why go give him that money when in 2013 you could possibly get Hamels or Cain. Im sorry but i take the Superstar over a 2nd rate SP. If he was a ACE sure but he isnt even a top 15 SP. So i go get a TOP 3 1B who ONLY 28

 

[poodski]

Yeah Wilson has bad idea written all over it.

 

[DewsSox79]

Pena seems pretty likely to reach Type B compensation so this does make a fair bit of sense. The Cubs could offer arbitration and do have a fairly low chance of him accepting. Type B doesn't hurt Pena since it doesn't cost the team signing him any of their picks. This really is the smart move the Cubs are making right now since they don't save any money and teams are clearly lowballing them. Take what you can get out of Pena and then offer arbitration. If he accepts getting him on another 1 year deal might actually be the best outcome for the Cubs because we need pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

:clap:

ps- you ignored my visitor message

 

[dabynsky]

Here is the list of SP FA in 2013: No way all of them sign. Il will put * next to guys i like alot that would be upgrades for Cubs big time. Scott Baker (31) - $9.25MM club option
Joe Blanton (32)
Matt Cain (28)**** ACE
Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option (if he does well it will be picked up)
Kevin Correia (32)
John Danks (28)**** (Would be very good in NL)
Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Gavin Floyd (30) - $9.5MM club option**** (Im assuming he be picked up if doing well)
Zack Greinke (28)***** (Still a be very young)
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Cole Hamels (29)***** (ACE)
Dan Haren (32) - $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout
Tim Hudson (37) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)**** (Still young and see how he does next year)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Derek Lowe (40)
Shaun Marcum (31) **** *(Guy can just pitch)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Carl Pavano (37)
Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Anibal Sanchez (29) **** (has very good stuff)
Jonathan Sanchez (30) *** (has very good stuff)
Ervin Santana (30) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout (i think gets picked up unless down year)
Joe Saunders (32)
James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout*** (TBR cant afford that)
Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement

Now for the 1B FA class of 2013:

Aubrey Huff (36) - $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Adam LaRoche (33) - $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Carlos Lee (37)
James Loney (29)
Mike Napoli (31)
Ty Wigginton (35) - $4MM club option with a $500K buyout

All of those guys SUCK^....

So its we get 2+ more years of guy hitting low .200's with 25-30 HR 80 RBI or we go out and sign a 28 y/o SUPERSTAR that hits .280 30-35 HR over 100 RBI for the next 5-7 years....Just common sense to go after Fielder this year. SP class is weak in 2012 and nothing will help Cubs for 2012+ while Fielder WOULD

Out of curiousity, d3a how many of those pitchers would you put ahead of CJ Wilson? Because I think I would put 3 on that list at most ahead of CJ Wilson. If the Cubs decided to go with Wilson this year, I would hope they would bring back Pena for several seasons. The choice isn't between Wilson and Huff versus Fielder and Cain as you seem to be painting it in this post.

 

[nwfisch]

Wilson is going to cost 15 mil +. Why go give him that money when in 2013 you could possibly get Hamels or Cain. Im sorry but i take the Superstar over a 2nd rate SP.

But your not guaranteed signing Hamels or Cain You try signing good players when you can.

CJ Wilson is an upgrade to the rotation as a 2A pitcher, and helps by putting Garza at 2, Demp at 3, and Wells at 4. That is an improvement over Garza Demp Wells Lopez Coleman.

SF and Philly will likely re-sign those 2.

 

[daddies3angels]

so there is absolutely no pitcher that is worth even a #3 or #4 spot..which is actually what is more needed than an actual ace?

furthermore, i agree fielder would be a big impact on the team, but

A. I think with him as a huge commodity,there will be a lot of competition,therefore there may be a better chance of getting another bat and maybe a pitcher which we desperately need than chasing fielder..if he comes great...but im apprehensive here

B.Fielder is a damn good player..but he's not going to fix all the issues..he'll help the offense a bit with his power and hitting...the offense will improve..but that itself will NOT fix the team automatically by any stretch..i still doubt we are a contender with just fielder if we dont have pitching support...

i understand the long terms benefits here, im not arguing why i dont want fielder, i definitely want him, but you have to think what are our chances here and what do we have better chances with that are needs?

I agree 100% he wont fix the team next year. But in 2-3 years he will be still one of the main center pieces at age 30. resiging Pena and adding Wilson does not fix the team either

 

[dabynsky]

:clap:

ps- you ignored my visitor message

You and fisch sent my the same type of message, but I was drinking and avoiding getting ready for today at the time. In all honesty today was my second day of actually doing my job (the first two days were just meetings/classroom time). For the most part it has been great with very few problems, but the first few days are never an issue really.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Wilson is going to cost 15 mil +. Why go give him that money when in 2013 you could possibly get Hamels or Cain. Im sorry but i take the Superstar over a 2nd rate SP.

wilson has a higher win % than either cain or hamels(i know you have to think about context but it is a little bit of an eye opener..and the sample size isnt too much different)...wilson has a pretty close ERA and WAR for this year...not sure FIP wise but im sure its close to cain and hamels...pretty sure wilson is also comparable in strikeouts..not to mention wilson pitches in the NL which is a little easier batting wise

cain and hamels are not superstars..they arent even the best pitchers on their team(sure they are on great rotations..but still)..

i hate how superstar gets thrown around to describe every above average player...that should be reserved for the VERY best like Halladay,Sabathia,etc.

 

[nwfisch]

I agree 100% he wont fix the team next year. But in 2-3 years he will be still one of the main center pieces at age 30. resiging Pena and adding Wilson does not fix the team either

Nobody's saying a fix, but the Cubs have to get more pitching depth so Randy Wells isn't counted upon as a #3 starter.