Schefter: Multiple teams contacted Bears about Jordan Howard

ZenBear34

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 28, 2012
Posts:
4,379
Liked Posts:
3,685
The above is a comment about mismatches not predictability. We all know Cohen is a mismatch. That was not what the poster that brought up predictability was referring to.

Run/pass predictability isn't the point, though. It's the fact that he is totally predictable in the passing game, and so, severely limits what the offense can do. He's blocking or running one of two routes. Scheme wise, you've taken a chess piece off the board and replaced it with a checker. Cohen is not a running back. They need a back who can run, run a variety of routes and catch. It's that simple. There is no argument here. Jordan Howard does not fit the offense. Fin.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
58,356
Liked Posts:
35,444
Bears actually passed 54.8% of the time which was 6th lowest in the league.....the percentage was almost exactly the same as Fox's offense the previous year.

Think you excluding Trub runs. Intent was to pass but he then scrambled
 

modo

Based
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
29,271
Liked Posts:
23,083
Location:
USA
Think you excluding Trub runs. Intent was to pass but he then scrambled


he had 27 more runs in 2018 than 2017.....fairly negligible especially when you consider he had a lot more actual run plays in year two...as in designed runs
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
58,356
Liked Posts:
35,444
Run/pass predictability isn't the point, though. It's the fact that he is totally predictable in the passing game, and so, severely limits what the offense can do. He's blocking or running one of two routes. Scheme wise, you've taken a chess piece off the board and replaced it with a checker. Cohen is not a running back. They need a back who can run, run a variety of routes and catch. It's that simple. There is no argument here. Jordan Howard does not fit the offense. Fin.

Think this is exaggerated. Of course Howard limits the offense some but to say severe is hyperbole. Cohen isnt running WR routes every down and sometimes you have to pass block. There are plenty of called plays in the O where the RB is just a blocker or check down.

I have no problem replacing Howard. Just think pretending like he is a severe impediment to the offense is incorrect. Offense can work fine with him. Just a different emphasis.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
58,356
Liked Posts:
35,444
he had 27 more runs in 2018 than 2017.....fairly negligible especially when you consider he had a lot more actual run plays in year two...as in designed runs

Not talking about year over year. I am talking pass run ratio. If you move his scrambles to pass plays as well as count sacks as intended passes then offense intended to throw closer to the 60-40.

512 pass attempts plus 68 scrambles plus 33 sacks is about 613 pass attempts. 468 rushes minus 68 Trub scrambles is 400 rushing attempts. So that is pretty much spot on an intended 60-40 split.
 

PrideisBears

Jordan Sigler’s editor
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
Posts:
38,684
Liked Posts:
27,064
Location:
In the mod forum planning your ban
Bears actually passed 54.8% of the time which was 6th lowest in the league.....the percentage was almost exactly the same as Fox's offense the previous year.

Expect that to increase this year due to familiarity with the offense
 

PrideisBears

Jordan Sigler’s editor
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
Posts:
38,684
Liked Posts:
27,064
Location:
In the mod forum planning your ban
Bears actually passed 54.8% of the time which was 6th lowest in the league.....the percentage was almost exactly the same as Fox's offense the previous year.

Dbl post. Please dislike
 

Adipost

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
8,623
Liked Posts:
10,064
Location:
Chicago, IL
I think Nagy was truly in on Hunt. Pace seemed to be more apprehensive, which IMO would be the issue. I honestly don't think it was nixed atop Halas Hall because they are loath to be involved in anything, and I've never heard them nixing anyone before (remember when Pace signed Jay Ratliff?). It would be against historic precedent for the McCaskey's to overrule the GM on personnel matters.

I think Pace was waiting for the situation to cool down, perhaps for the league to weigh in on Hunt's suspension, and (typical Pace) also take time to gauge "fan reaction" to the potential acquisition of Hunt to see if it would be too negative. Pace wanted to perform an extensive case study on the Hunt situation before making a move, and the Browns acted decisively. JMO.

I also think Nagy was all in on Hunt, as he hand picked him in the 2017 draft. When the rumors were heating up, George McCaskey did an interview on 670 AM where he said all players with character issues would have to go through him. By saying this publicly, he basically cornered himself into taking a large portion of the responsibility for any current or future fallout.

So I would assume the hold up with Pace was trying to convince McCaskey. And Hunt may have been anxious to sign with a team as quickly as possible before anything else came out regarding his suspension. He was in no position to string teams along.

Actually can argue with this as the numbers appear wrong. Howard had 646 snaps. 231 pass plays where he didn't block, 96 pass plays where he blocked, 269 running plays where he didn't bock and 50 run plays where he blocked. So you forgot to account for the fact that he may be in on a run play but not get the carry and or be responsible for blocking.

So all told that is 327 pass plays and 319 run plays or pretty much 50/50. That is fairly balanced and contradicts the idea the offense is predictable with him in. It was not. The offense was balanced with him in and since run plays yield less yards than pass plays, that balance meant the yards per play would be less.

By contrast, Cohen had 541 snaps. 364 of them were pass plays were he didn't block, 11 pass plays where he blocked and 103 run plays where he didn't block and 63 run plays where he blocked.

So all told that is 375 passing plays and 166 run plays or a 70/30 split. So the irony is it is Cohen that makes the offense predictable because they pass overwhelming when he is in the game. That also means though the yards per pass play when he is in is likely to be higher since passes yield more yards than runs.

FYI, the above numbers are from PFF.

Thanks for the advanced metrics.
 

Toast88

Well-known member
Joined:
May 10, 2014
Posts:
12,865
Liked Posts:
11,916
5.2 yards per carry Year 1

4.1 in Year 2

3.7 in Year 3


No matter the reasons, Bears would be lucky to get a 5th for Howard.

So then if you’re the Bears, do you essentially just take anything for him because you’re going to release him in a year anyway? Or do you think he can positively contribute in this one-year window before the Bears move on without him, having gotten nothing for him?

Not saying the answer is necessarily obvious, but those are essentially the two options.
 

Bearly

Dissed membered
Donator
Joined:
Aug 17, 2011
Posts:
42,266
Liked Posts:
21,891
Location:
Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
and I keep him for that. If I don't get a 4th, I keep him, even if just as a backup for short yardage or to end games.
 

Visionman

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 28, 2017
Posts:
7,995
Liked Posts:
3,973
5.2 yards per carry Year 1

4.1 in Year 2

3.7 in Year 3


No matter the reasons, Bears would be lucky to get a 5th for Howard.

So then if you’re the Bears, do you essentially just take anything for him because you’re going to release him in a year anyway? Or do you think he can positively contribute in this one-year window before the Bears move on without him, having gotten nothing for him?

Not saying the answer is necessarily obviously, but those are essentially the two options.

I think letting him go to another team where he can play to his strengths is good for how players see our franchise. We aren't going to get much of a comp pick for him anyway. Time to move on...
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,961
Liked Posts:
10,540
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
We can’t hold onto him and get something for him. At least get something for him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

BearFanJohn

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
Posts:
10,389
Liked Posts:
6,389
Location:
Indiana
I think letting him go to another team where he can play to his strengths is good for how players see our franchise. We aren't going to get much of a comp pick for him anyway. Time to move on...

Huh? Are you saying just let him walk this year? You mean after this year, right?
 

WindyCity

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
Posts:
30,816
Liked Posts:
35,325
I wonder how the Howard truthers are going to reconcile the fact that the Bears may not get offered anything for him?
 

iueyedoc

Variant Also Negotiates
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
20,965
Liked Posts:
25,257
Location:
Mountains to Sea
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Indiana Hoosiers
I wonder how the Howard truthers are going to reconcile the fact that the Bears may not get offered anything for him?
Howard truthers? Dude you have gone off the deep end.
 

Raskolnikov

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
22,270
Liked Posts:
7,200
Location:
Enemy Territory via southern C
Has the idea to keep him for insurance until the trade deadline come up?

Keep him. Draft one. Work in Nall or sign Ware., release Cunningham. . And make an informed decision on Howard at the deadline when multiple teams may be inclined to pay more aftervinjuries.

His value can’t get worse and right now it isn’t worth his potential and insurance to the Bears, imo
 

BearFanJohn

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
Posts:
10,389
Liked Posts:
6,389
Location:
Indiana
The entire thread is about should we hold onto Howard this year or trade him now, so....

No shit. It sounded-to me-that the poster, meant just let him go without trading him. I am fine with a 4th. Might take a 5th depending on FA.
 

Top