TGDT: 11/10 Coyotes @ Blackhawks 7:30PM CSN

[Kerfuffle]

Stats aside when you look at all these 18 games we've played, something is missing - I would call it intensity, fire, drive. It's one of those things that's hard to qualify but you 'feel' it watching the game. I give Q credit for changing things up - he's desperately trying to find a way to restart the fire for this team. If he did nothing we'd all be complaining that he isn't adjusting or making changes. I don't think anyone has the answers right now.

 

[Sathington Willoby]

Stats aside when you look at all these 18 games we've played, something is missing - I would call it intensity, fire, drive. It's one of those things that's hard to qualify but you 'feel' it watching the game. I give Q credit for changing things up - he's desperately trying to find a way to restart the fire for this team. If he did nothing we'd all be complaining that he isn't adjusting or making changes. I don't think anyone has the answers right now.

I think Q is just starting to look plain desperate with the line juggling. Yeah, I know he's big on tinkering with the combos and all, but they really look like they've been picked out of a hat lately. And why not at least keep together the combos that are working, and then just **** with the rest of them?

 

[R K]

I think Q is just starting to look plain desperate with the line juggling. Yeah, I know he's big on tinkering with the combos and all, but they really look like they've been picked out of a hat lately. And why not at least keep together the combos that are working, and then just **** with the rest of them?

Since I've been watching Q or he arrived, he's never tinkered like this. In the 3rd period last night there were 8 different combination's on the top two lines. With in several face offs.



Kopecky didn't last too long at Center after the two goals.



I agree get with some combos and stick with them. I can understand with injuries but you could have run almost all four lines last night had you not put Kopecky at Center and used Pisani on the 4th. As it was he moved Pisani to Center Kane and Hossa.....

 

[LordKOTL]

I agree with Pez: these line combinations aren't lighting a fire, so if Q really has the stache, he might need to take sterner measures.



Call me crazy, but I'd like to see one of Toews, Kane, Sharp or Keith seeing pressbox duty. IMHO Keith is the most deserving but Toews would send the message best, and assuming it's Toews, Sharp, or Keith, you let Skille wear the A that game.



What's the worse that could happen? We lose? We've been losing.



I'm not even going to chalk this up to lack of intensity--I'm chalking it up to sheer stupidity on the ice. Plus, our passing has been garbage all year.

 

[Tater]

I noticed a lot of guys completely pulling away from a check.

Hell, down a goal in the third I saw Keith and Seabrook both do it on the same shift.

They would not have put themselves out of position either, just no interest in hitting the guy with puck and maybe forcing a turnover.

 

[Pez68]

The infatuation with Kopecky in the top six really needs to end, to be perfectly honest. ESPECIALLY at center. He has been pretty brutal since the first five, maybe six games of the season. He's not playing physical anymore, and he's not driving the net or going to the high traffic areas. He's there to create room for his linemates, and it's not happening.



I think Skille has earned, and deserves a shot at the top six for a few games. Maybe if he's on the ice with guys that have some skill, he can use his hard work and driving to the net to generate some goals out there. God knows, what we've been doing isn't working, and Skille has been absolutely fearless when going to the net this season. He's also one of the few forwards we have winning those individual battles for the puck. Reward the kid by putting him with some skill players, the same way Stalberg was rewarded.



Brouwer is another guy that needs to sit his ass in the fucking press box again. Another one that doesn't understand that he should be out there playing physical, crashing the net, and creating room for his linemates, not playing perimeter hockey.



Does anyone here actually believe Hossa is 100%? He is now on a six game pointless streak, after being superhuman the first seven... Ready to go my ass.



This is where you see how good a coach Q really is, or if he was just blessed with more talent than anyone else last year.

 

[R K]

Kane had 3 take aways last night.



Hawks had 17 take aways verses the 4 give aways.



Other than the minute they gave up two goals they played a decent game. Just like against the oilers, which I thought last night was better because the Coyotes are a better team than the Oilers.



It's not like they were playing a bad team last night.

 

[Pez68]

Takeaways and giveaways are a more useless stat than +-.



Chicago Blackhawks: "One Goal", because that's all we feel like scoring lately.



How many difficult saves did the sieve on the other end have to make? Three?

 

[R K]

Depends on if they lead to goals for or against. +/- is far more mis leading unless you are a defender.





another argument for another day.





Bonus Stempniak didn't beat us as usual. Nor Vrbata.

 

[Pez68]

Giveaways and takeaways: An interesting idea, presumably based on steals and turnovers in basketball. These stats have been the source of some confusion, as many people seem to think that a giveaway on one side equals a takeaway on the other. In fact, the two are mutually-exclusive events. If a turnover was the result of a giveaway, it cannot be the result of a takeaway. Both of these stats are available only in THN Yearbook. Takeaways also enter into the Disciplined Aggression Proxy. The meaningfulness of giveaways has yet to be determined; there is some evidence that they reflect something positive, rather than the negative they were intended to indicate.

If hit totals in the official NHL statistics are a little dubious, then giveaways and takeaways are on a whole other level. While the average rink records 14% more hits by the home team than by the visitors, home team takeaways (and visiting team giveaways) are 30-40% higher. In fewer than 3% of cases did official scorers report more takeaways by visiting teams or giveaways by their own team. And the rinks with the highest totals often record eight times as many as those with the lowest totals. The Phoenix Coyotes, as bad as they were last year, somehow gave the puck away just 83 times at home; the Sharks, with shutdown defense, recorded 375 in San Jose.

Just a couple of snippets on giveaways and takeaways, and why they are pretty much a 100% useless statistic. A giveaway cannot be a takeaway, and a takeaway cannot be a giveaway. A completely subjective statistic, and one that is obviously recorded with extreme bias.



But, as you said, a conversation for another day.



http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2009/10/12/1081096/giveaways-and-takeaways

 

[PatrickShart]

Just to give somoe inside/line changing in games at times - its not as easy as in to flop one guy with the next - as in next shift. It can take 2-3 shift roations if you want to make a change, based on who was just on the ice, the matchup, if there is a whistle, etc.



The game behind the bench is too quick to just flop 1 guy for another - you cant just throw a tired guy out there for a new line combo. Yesterday was all 5-on-5 - which made it even more difficult to switch things up.



If the core players were responding - then none of this would be needed. Its time for the "returners" to step it up.



I think the lines/coaching has been fine. The new players have been improving as the season has gone on. The team has been starting to improve their puck possesion/limiting shots on goal. They just need more timely goals and the top players to get some consistancy - Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa..Bolland (upon return)...and definately Keith and Hjarllmarsson.





And, after seeing that "core" group play they last few years, I am one to believe that they will. Thinking that they've been the "missing"ingredient this year, I'm not that worried. If those guys were playing out of their ass, and the team losing so many 1 goal games...then I'd be concerned. RK, I know you blame Boynton on both of those - but Keith made 2 horrible decisions to leave him out to dry.

 

[Pez68]

Just to get back on topic, Kopecky now has one point in his last 10 games. He has been held off the scoresheet in 10 of 18 games.



Toews has also been held off the scoresheet in 10 of 18 games.



As I mentioned earlier, Hossa hasn't had a point in his last 6 games.



Dowell has as many ESG as Kane(3), and more than Toews(2). Bickell has as many as Toews and was a healthy scratch for three games and has been playing on the third and fourth lines when not scratched.



Stalberg has more ESG than both Toews AND Kane.



For all the top six icetime Kopecky has logged, he has a whopping two goals. And Skille is the one getting shit for not putting the puck in the net? The guy playing half as much as Kopecky, and getting zero PP time to Kopecky's three minutes a game? Really?



Perspective. How refreshing.

 

[thanson1990]

I just think its impossible for the guys to get any sort of consistent play or continuity when you can't play with the same line mates for more than five shifts. It's just not going to work if it stays this way.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

Since I've been watching Q or he arrived, he's never tinkered like this. In the 3rd period last night there were 8 different combination's on the top two lines. With in several face offs.



Kopecky didn't last too long at Center after the two goals.



I agree get with some combos and stick with them. I can understand with injuries but you could have run almost all four lines last night had you not put Kopecky at Center and used Pisani on the 4th. As it was he moved Pisani to Center Kane and Hossa.....

I don't know what the heck is the problem but the lotto-ball method of putting lines together must have something to do with it. I know Q is famous for his line-juggling but in my (probably silly) opinion maybe what this team needs right now is some stability. Kane, Toews and Stahlberg looked GREAT in the Atlanta game, and Kane and Toews pretty much always look good together, yet Q separated them last night to put Kaner on the left wing with Kopy at center? I dunno. Maybe Q should try putting the same lines out there for 2 or 3 games straight and see what happens. It couldn't hurt.



I also have a beef with the decision to pair Keith with Boynton. I know Keith has been playing like crap for the most part and that he deserves third-pairing minutes, but he usually plays even worse when he's paired with someone who is slow and shaky defensively because he tries to do too much. I hope Dunc can get his act together. And soon. I made the huge mistake of looking at the comments to Sassone's article in the Herald this morning to see people talking about how James Norris must be turning over in his grave every time #2 touches the puck. Hyperbole much? As far as I know he deserved to win the Norris last year. And I have a feeling he'll get it back together this year. He's too good not to.



Oh, and pmxc, you'll be happy to know that it looks like Skille has company in Jaekel's woodshed. For now, he seems to be after Keith even more than Skille. So perhaps Skille isn't the great white whale after all . . . (And I still don't understand any complaints about Skille. Gah.)

 

[E Runs]

And, after seeing that "core" group play they last few years, I am one to believe that they will. Thinking that they've been the "missing"ingredient this year, I'm not that worried. If those guys were playing out of their ass, and the team losing so many 1 goal games...then I'd be concerned. RK, I know you blame Boynton on both of those - but Keith made 2 horrible decisions to leave him out to dry.

Wolski is going to turn a guy like Boynton inside out 99% of the time.



On the 2nd the puck jumped right over Keith's stick, I'd call it the proverbial bad bounce more than a horrible decision. However the horrible decision was Kane's pass that led to that play. Why the **** are they trying a cross ice pass up high like that when protecting a 1 goal lead!? Dump it in the corner and go to work. I don't know how many listened to Skille's post game interview on WGN but he was 100% spot on talking about playing hard nosed, grinding hockey.



Keith deserved to sit no doubt as his play as been pretty much atrocious but what led to the 2nd goal is indicative of what's going on. The "core" need to realize what type of team they are at this point, strap on the hard hat, grab the lunch pail and go to work. (Eff me, now I sound like Edzo.)

 

[Kerfuffle]

. . . (And I still don't understand any complaints about Skille. Gah.)

It comes down to finishing and Skille hasn't shown he can do that. I like his effort very much, but he seems to skate around with nothing to show for it. It's frustrating seeing him get the puck down low and then mishandling it or unable to come up with a decent shot. And most frustrating is his inability to clear the puck out of the defensive zone. He's not the main problem by any means but he is still part of it.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

Wolski is going to turn a guy like Boynton inside out 99% of the time.



On the 2nd the puck jumped right over Keith's stick, I'd call it the proverbial bad bounce more than a horrible decision. However the horrible decision was Kane's pass that led to that play. Why the **** are they trying a cross ice pass up high like that when protecting a 1 goal lead!? Dump it in the corner and go to work. I don't know how many listened to Skille's post game interview on WGN but he was 100% spot on talking about playing hard nosed, grinding hockey.



Keith deserved to sit no doubt as his play as been pretty much atrocious but what led to the 2nd goal is indicative of what's going on. The "core" need to realize what type of team they are at this point, strap on the hard hat, grab the lunch pail and go to work. (Eff me, now I sound like Edzo.)

Nah, only if you start talking about your wife's chocolate chip cookies or spend an entire game talking about your son's birth 20 years ago.

On substance, though, you happen to be right. They need to start grinding and stop trying to be so pretty.

 

[whalerhawk]

I posted this in the other GDT as well.



Forward points per minute of ice time.



Sharp - 1pt for every 19:50

Kane - 1 per every 22:22

Hossa - 1 per every 23:22

Stalberg - 1 per every 26:00

Toews - 1 per every 27:35

Brouwer - 1 per every 29:35

Bickell - 1 per every 31:38

Kopecky - 1 per every 34:26

Dowell - 1 per every 42:32

Skille - 1 per every 44:35

Pisani - 1 per every 77:31

Scott - will he ever register a point? Zero for 107 minutes so far.



Read into this as you may. Toews, Kane and Hossa have to get those numbers closer to 1 point for every 20 minutes, or better. Toews has been especially disappointing. But Kane and Hossa aren't far off what we should expect long-term. Stalberg, given his production, is the one who deserves more minutes.



Pisani's numbers are somewhat skewed by the fact 15% of his on-ice time comes killing penalties. But even if you take that out, he's scoring at a God-awful 1 point for every 65 minutes on the ice.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

It comes down to finishing and Skille hasn't shown he can do that. I like his effort very much, but he seems to skate around with nothing to show for it. It's frustrating seeing him get the puck down low and then mishandling it or unable to come up with a decent shot. And most frustrating is his inability to clear the puck out of the defensive zone. He's not the main problem by any means but he is still part of it.

Oh, I get what Skille does wrong and it can get a bit frustrating to see him not get a shot off, or failing to clear the puck. But IMO, right now he's the least of the Hawks' worries. So many other things are going wrong that I can't understand people putting their complaints about Skille at the top of the list. That's all I'm saying.

 

[R K]

Wolski is going to turn a guy like Boynton inside out 99% of the time.



On the 2nd the puck jumped right over Keith's stick, I'd call it the proverbial bad bounce more than a horrible decision. However the horrible decision was Kane's pass that led to that play. Why the **** are they trying a cross ice pass up high like that when protecting a 1 goal lead!? Dump it in the corner and go to work. I don't know how many listened to Skille's post game interview on WGN but he was 100% spot on talking about playing hard nosed, grinding hockey.



Keith deserved to sit no doubt as his play as been pretty much atrocious but what led to the 2nd goal is indicative of what's going on. The "core" need to realize what type of team they are at this point, strap on the hard hat, grab the lunch pail and go to work. (Eff me, now I sound like Edzo.)

HAHA



Now we have two Eddio O Jr's on IHN...!