The Redemption of Josh McDaniels: Failure Taught Pats OC How to Pick His Spots

[Burque]

hi novak!

Hello back Novak. Is this like a "we are all Neegan" sorta thing you've got going?

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[PeterMbangala]

I think he's screwed no matter how he answers.

Did you intentionally chase Cutler away or was that by accident? Did you think you were sticking it to the Bears with the trade deal, Orton and picks or did you think that was a fair price?

Nah I don't think he is. Just needs to show some humility and say he's learned from his mistakes. Anything else is a major red flag.

 

[PeterMbangala]

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. McDaniels is fine now, because he exits under the BB umbrella. I am not buying in to the fact he has changed, nor do I think he could pull any of the top assistants along with him. You just spent three years with Fox, who was brought in to "change" the culture. Now you want to destroy it?

The Fox culture change is overplayed. He went 14-34.

But it would seem like a huge risk to put McDaniels into a group that did seem to really like Fox on a personal level. Maybe it's what they need, some tough love. But it's really kill or cure.

 

[iffybiz]

Mike Lombardi made a interesting point about having control of the 53 man roster. Generally, the coach controls the 45 players who play on game day. The other 8 fall under the GM purview as he’s trying to bring in players to develop for the future.
I don’t think that roster control is as big a deal as we think it is.


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[Menchifus]

People who are assholes in their 30s usually don't change. They're assholes for life. So no thanks on McD.

With regards to Toub, I don't know much about him except he was a great ST coach. What is the historical performance of ST coaches who are promoted to HC?

 

[Mjiton]

People who are assholes in their 30s usually don't change. They're assholes for life. So no thanks on McD.

With regards to Toub, I don't know much about him except he was a great ST coach. What is the historical performance of ST coaches who are promoted to HC?

 

[Toast88]

People who are assholes in their 30s usually don't change. They're assholes for life. So no thanks on McD.

With regards to Toub, I don't know much about him except he was a great ST coach. What is the historical performance of ST coaches who are promoted to HC?

I don’t know whether McDaniels will definitely be a good head coach or not, but this is the point I was making. When people are hoping he’s changed and matured, we’re not talking about a guy who was 20 and being an asshole. We’re talking about a guy who was 32 and being an asshole. He was a grown ass man. You are who you are at 32.

 

[GoBears]

McDaniels would be an incredible mistake.

 

[BearbaFett]

People who are assholes in their 30s usually don't change. They're assholes for life. So no thanks on McD.

With regards to Toub, I don't know much about him except he was a great ST coach. What is the historical performance of ST coaches who are promoted to HC?

john harbaugh, marv levy, dick vermeil, bill cowher, bill belichick, and da coach all were ST coordinators prior to becoming HC

 

[Luke]

Mike Lombardi made a interesting point about having control of the 53 man roster. Generally, the coach controls the 45 players who play on game day. The other 8 fall under the GM purview as he’s trying to bring in players to develop for the future.
I don’t think that roster control is as big a deal as we think it is.


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Pompei also touched on that and said control of the 53 man roster is way over blown.

 

[dbldrew]

So, Josh McDaniels is responsible for.....Tom Brady?

what does that have to do with the Lions? That makes no sense.

listen McDanials is a high risk high reward hire.. the risk is, what if he hasn't learned and changed? The reward is he is a great offensive mind and runs a great system. He also can develop a young QB

The Lions dont have a young QB that needs to develop so the bolded "reward" is useless to them. so if they dont need to develop a QB like the Bears do there game plan will be different.

Its not complicated and tom Brady has nothing to do with anything i said..

 

[nc0gnet0]

what does that have to do with the Lions? That makes no sense.

listen McDanials is a high risk high reward hire.. the risk is, what if he hasn't learned and changed? The reward is he is a great offensive mind and runs a great system. He also can develop a young QB

The Lions dont have a young QB that needs to develop so the bolded "reward" is useless to them. so if they dont need to develop a QB like the Bears do there game plan will be different.

Its not complicated and tom Brady has nothing to do with anything i said..

But he does.

What I said had nothing to do with the Lions, rather Josh Mcdaniels and his ability to develop a young QB, all while assuming HC duties. I am sure he deserves some of the credit for developing Garapolo, but let us not forget JG also had the benefit of learning from Brady himself. McDaniels handling of Qb's was questionable at best when he was a HC in Denver. Head coach's don't develop QB's, and the bears aren't interviewing McDaniels to be the OC or QB coach. That will be the job of his staff (should he get the job). My question is, how well liked is McDaniels, and what quality of assistants could he attract to work under him?

Oh, and another thing that has not been mentioned, Josh M was a big part of the video tape scandal that happened to New England.

 

[dbldrew]

But he does.

What I said had nothing to do with the Lions, rather Josh Mcdaniels and his ability to develop a young QB, all while assuming HC duties. I am sure he deserves some of the credit for developing Garapolo, but let us not forget JG also had the benefit of learning from Brady himself. McDaniels handling of Qb's was questionable at best when he was a HC in Denver. Head coach's don't develop QB's, and the bears aren't interviewing McDaniels to be the OC or QB coach. That will be the job of his staff (should he get the job). My question is, how well liked is McDaniels, and what quality of assistants could he attract to work under him?

Oh, and another thing that has not been mentioned, Josh M was a big part of the video tape scandal that happened to New England.

no Tom Brady has nothing to do with the Lions lack of needing a HC that can develop a young QB. Which is what my post was about.

But to address your other points

Actually the one good thing in Denver was what he did with Orton

If we compare Ortons best year with the Bears to his 2 years under McDainials he had a increase in every statistical category

YPG 198 up to 259

TD per game 1.2 up to 1.41

int per game .8 down to .72

Comp% 58.5 up to 60.4

yards per attempt 6.4 up to 7.1

rate 79.6 up to 87.1

and lets not forget they won 11 games with matt cassel and went 3 and 1 with garoppolo and Brissett when Brady wasnt there

 

[nc0gnet0]

So, Josh McDaniels is responsible for.....Tom Brady?

You seem to be confused about my reply here (ps it had nothing to do with the Lions). So, to clear up the confusion, I was questioning whether or not Josh McDaniels really is that much of a QB guru. Obviously he is not responsible for the development of Tom Brady, and other than Orton (who's numbers are probably as much a matter of scheme change as anything), each of the QB's he is given credit for "developing" also enjoyed being able to learn under Tom Brady as well.

To me, everyone that is on the Josh McDaniels train, one of the first things they bring up is "we need to hire an offensive minded head coach for Mitch Trubisky". I think this is short sighted. The Bears do need to hire a coach that can field a staff that has that as a major priority yes, but everyone is overstating how much time the HC will have for hands on himself. It will fall on his staff. Again, this raises some interesting questions. How well is Josh Mcdaniels liked amongst the assistant ranks, and will he be able to pull top of the line coaching talent?

My Lions comment was made because I found it interesting that a guy that worked with him in NE's Front Office had not requested to interview him. Is this because he is not well liked? To which you countered with the Lions don't need to develop a QB. Ok, I will give you that, however if he is a top of the line HC candidate, surely you want him to posses other attributes as well?

 

[dbldrew]

You seem to be confused about my reply here

I think its very fitting you quoted yourself saying how the person you quoted was confused lol

(ps it had nothing to do with the Lions).

But you where replying to my post that was 100% about the lions.. so hence the confusion

So, to clear up the confusion, I was questioning whether or not Josh McDaniels really is that much of a QB guru. Obviously he is not responsible for the development of Tom Brady, and other than Orton (who's numbers are probably as much a matter of scheme change as anything), each of the QB's he is given credit for "developing" also enjoyed being able to learn under Tom Brady as well.

He developed Cassel, Garoppolo and helped Orton. Orton did not learn anything from Brady. And how did it work out for the Packers with Hundley learning from Rodgers?

To me, everyone that is on the Josh McDaniels train, one of the first things they bring up is "we need to hire an offensive minded head coach for Mitch Trubisky". I think this is short sighted. The Bears do need to hire a coach that can field a staff that has that as a major priority yes,

So you want more of a John Fox head coach to field a staff? Didnt we already do that? He brought in a good OC and he got plucked for a HC job.. That is why people want a offensive mind. so we are not changing OC every other year.

My Lions comment was made because I found it interesting that a guy that worked with him in NE's Front Office had not requested to interview him. To which you countered with the Lions don't need to develop a QB. Ok, I will give you that, however if he is a top of the line HC candidate, surely you want him to posses other attributes as well?

again he is a high risk high reward hire.. but the Lions are not in need of any of his "rewards" they already have a good OC they already have a established QB. The chance of the lions OC getting plucked is a bit lower due to his strange issues in the past. So why would they take the "high risk"? There position is different then most other teams.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I think its very fitting you quoted yourself saying how the person you quoted was confused lol


But you where replying to my post that was 100% about the lions.. so hence the confusion



He developed Cassel, Garoppolo and helped Orton. Orton did not learn anything from Brady. And how did it work out for the Packers with Hundley learning from Rodgers?



So you want more of a John Fox head coach to field a staff? Didnt we already do that? He brought in a good OC and he got plucked for a HC job.. That is why people want a offensive mind. so we are not changing OC every other year.


again he is a high risk high reward hire.. but the Lions are not in need of any of his "rewards" they already have a good OC they already have a established QB. The chance of the lions OC getting plucked is a bit lower due to his strange issues in the past. So why would they take the "high risk"? There position is different then most other teams.

He developed Orton, so that is what you expect of Trubs...Orton? Orton was already a four years into the league with starting experience. Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. The others, again, also had Tom Brady to learn from, as well as Josh. Never said I wanted John Fox, but that doesn't mean you do a complete 180 either. Fox was partially brought in to change the culture. Now you want to risk destroying it? There are better picks out there IMO.

 

[dbldrew]

He developed Orton, so that is what you expect of Trubs...Orton? Orton was already a four years into the league with starting experience. Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. The others, again, also had Tom Brady to learn from, as well as Josh. Never said I wanted John Fox, but that doesn't mean you do a complete 180 either. Fox was partially brought in to change the culture. Now you want to risk destroying it? There are better picks out there IMO.

Orton was a slow QB with a weak arm and pretty inaccurate passer. And McDanials turned him into a mid level QB.. What do you think he could do with a QB that has all of the natural talents of Trubisky?

this is a QB driven league. If you want to be competitive year after year and go deep in the playoffs and actually win multiple Superbowls then you are going to need a great QB. So for me the most important aspect is developing Trubisky.

Yes we have a great "culture" now.. so what that has done nothing to rack up the wins..

In 3 years (the time they will probably give McDanials before firing him if he fails) would you rather have..

A mid level QB and great Culture but maybe backdoor a wildcard spot. (lower risk lower reward HC hire)
OR
A top 5 QB but the "culture" is ruined and no playoffs and you are looking for a New HC? (McDanials hired and worst case)

For me its simple.. give me that top 5 QB and now you have something to build on going forward.

 

[Les Grossman]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder how Jordan Howard would fit into McDaniels’ offense. Would be a shame to lose a good player due to a poor fit (Olsen).

 

[modo]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wonder how Jordan Howard would fit into McDaniels’ offense. Would be a shame to lose a good player due to a poor fit (Olsen).

Do the Pats not run the ball? I think any OC can find a way to work in a 1000 yard rusher.

 

[dbldrew]

Do the Pats not run the ball? I think any OC can find a way to work in a 1000 yard rusher.

they run a lot out of shotgun I think.. which if i remember correct Howard does very well