The Redemption of Josh McDaniels: Failure Taught Pats OC How to Pick His Spots

[PolarBear]

You can’t use stats to determine who is going to be the better head coach. You can use that to determine who is the best coordinator. Head coach is about being a leader, and hiring the right staff. Then balancing your team with your business.

Pat Shurmur was a bad head coach, 10-23. He won’t crash and burn your organization, reminds me a lot of Dick Jauron. Safe, but nothing to write home about. The typical Bears hire.

Josh Mcdaniels was a disaster as head coach. Huge risk, probably not worth it. His players did say they were never more prepared, but also never had fun. He was horrible with the business side. He was young, but can a person really change? Could be a super bowl winner or completely destroy your franchise.

Defillipo - complete unknown, is he the next McVay or mcdaniels? Odds are neither somewhere in between.

Nagy - see DeFilippo.

The reality is this years candidates are bad, no clear answer in the bunch. We need a miracle and to get lucky, we are for sure due for that. Wish we looked last year for a coach.

Bad head coach with the Browns.

BB was a bad head coach with the Browns.

Everybody is a bad head coach with the Browns.

Josh McDaniels puts up great years with the GOAT at QB.

Shurmur puts up a top 10 offensive season with Case Keenum, Jerick Mckinnon, Latavius Murray, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs.

Players liked playing under Shurmur, nobody liked playing for McDaniels.

Shurmur has produced more with less on offense and is also not a trainwreck of a personality. Pretty easy if you ask me the decision between those two.

If you want the young hot shot over Shurmur I can understand that.

 

[PeterMbangala]

You can’t use stats to determine who is going to be the better head coach. You can use that to determine who is the best coordinator. Head coach is about being a leader, and hiring the right staff. Then balancing your team with your business.

Pat Shurmur was a bad head coach, 10-23. He won’t crash and burn your organization, reminds me a lot of Dick Jauron. Safe, but nothing to write home about. The typical Bears hire.

Josh Mcdaniels was a disaster as head coach. Huge risk, probably not worth it. His players did say they were never more prepared, but also never had fun. He was horrible with the business side. He was young, but can a person really change? Could be a super bowl winner or completely destroy your franchise.

Defillipo - complete unknown, is he the next McVay or mcdaniels? Odds are neither somewhere in between.

Nagy - see DeFilippo.

The reality is this years candidates are bad, no clear answer in the bunch. We need a miracle and to get lucky, we are for sure due for that. Wish we looked last year for a coach.

Completely agree with that. Throw in that this is Pace's first real go at this and Ted and George are idiots.

You for sure need some luck here. If you asked me to pick I probably go Nagy but really it's a complete shot in the dark.

I could actually understand the allure of someone like Toub in this scenario as at least you know you are getting a competent HC across the board and a guy that can delegate. I wouldn't hate it despite the huge ? about OC and Trubisky's development.

 

[WindyCity]

Sorry, I meant over his career with and without McDaniels.

Part of the argument against McDaniels is the New England factor with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. But it works both ways. In eight seasons with McDaniels as the offensive coordinator, Brady has averaged 33 touchdowns and 8 interceptions. In eight seasons without him, he has thrown an average of 5 fewer touchdowns and 4 more interceptions.

 

[WindyCity]

He is not my 1st choice.

But he clearly seems to be the 1st choice of most of the NFL.

 

[Rise]

Bad head coach with the Browns.

BB was a bad head coach with the Browns.

Everybody is a bad head coach with the Browns.

Josh McDaniels puts up great years with the GOAT at QB.

Shurmur puts up a top 10 offensive season with Case Keenum, Jerick Mckinnon, Latavius Murray, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs.

Players liked playing under Shurmur, nobody liked playing for McDaniels.

Shurmur has produced more with less on offense and is also not a trainwreck of a personality. Pretty easy if you ask me the decision between those two.

If you want the young hot shot over Shurmur I can understand that.

Please stop comparing Shurmur to BB. The only thing they have in common is coaching the Browns and being weird in press conferences.

Beyond that everything you say is correct. He is a pretty good coordinator, I just don’t see the great head coach in him, more of a conservative pick which honestly might be the best this year.

To me yes I want a hot shot, I want hope of greatness, even if it is a long shot. I just won’t feel that way if we hire Shurmur, I’d be bored. If it’s Mcdaniels I’d be scared to death but it would be interesting. If it’s Nagy or Flip I’d be hopeful.

 

[WindyCity]

My top 2 are Nagy and Flip, but I also have to admit they both could be catastrophic failures. They both could show up and not be any good at calling plays, which would really suck considering we need our Sean payton.

 

[PolarBear]

Please stop comparing Shurmur to BB. The only thing they have in common is coaching the Browns and being weird in press conferences.

Beyond that everything you say is correct. He is a pretty good coordinator, I just don’t see the great head coach in him, more of a conservative pick which honestly might be the best this year.

To me yes I want a hot shot, I want hope of greatness, even if it is a long shot. I just won’t feel that way if we hire Shurmur, I’d be bored. If it’s Mcdaniels I’d be scared to death but it would be interesting. If it’s Nagy or Flip I’d be hopeful.

It's not a comparison to BB. It's comparing their situations and is more a reflection on how bad the Browns are, not how good Shurmur is. I know Shurmur isn't the GOAT coach.

I want no part of McDaniels at all. I don't see how is upside is any bigger than any of the other guys and then you combine that with a huge downside...No thanks.

 

[Rise]

Completely agree with that. Throw in that this is Pace's first real go at this and Ted and George are idiots.

You for sure need some luck here. If you asked me to pick I probably go Nagy but really it's a complete shot in the dark.

I could actually understand the allure of someone like Toub in this scenario as at least you know you are getting a competent HC across the board and a guy that can delegate. I wouldn't hate it despite the huge ? about OC and Trubisky's development.

Yeah or even Wilks. Honestly Wilks might be the best leader. The problem is they want an offensive guy, and I understand why they do, it just doesn’t appear like the offensive minded guys are the best head coaching candidates this year.

Can we just catch a f’n break for once? Lol

 

[WindyCity]

My main issue with Shurmur is that he is having success now under a really strong head coach, kind of like McDaniels, with ideal everything except for the QB.

Is Case Keemun playing out of his mind? Or is Shurmur that good?

 

[Rise]

My main issue with Shurmur is that he is having success now under a really strong head coach, kind of like McDaniels, with ideal everything except for the QB.

Is Case Keemun playing out of his mind? Or is Shurmur that good?

Keenum is playing out of his mind. Shurmur is a good oc but he is not a miracle worker. He is smart enough to not break what is fixed, I’ll give him that for sure.

 

[PolarBear]

My main issue with Shurmur is that he is having success now under a really strong head coach, kind of like McDaniels, with ideal everything except for the QB.

Is Case Keemun playing out of his mind? Or is Shurmur that good?

He doesn't have ideal everything. He has an ideal defense and ST backing him but that offense is in tatters.

It's not just Keenum. They lost Dalvin Cook, several offensive lineman and Stefon Diggs for games this year.

 

[Rise]

It's not a comparison to BB. It's comparing their situations and is more a reflection on how bad the Browns are, not how good Shurmur is. I know Shurmur isn't the GOAT coach.

I want no part of McDaniels at all. I don't see how is upside is any bigger than any of the other guys and then you combine that with a huge downside...No thanks.

I totally get that opinion. He is an insane risk, but he isn’t boring. I doubt they hire McDaniels, Nagy or flip are like draft picks or 2nd year college qbs, while McDaniels is like rg3.

Shurmur is like trading for Alex Smith.

 

[PeterMbangala]

My top 2 are Nagy and Flip, but I also have to admit they both could be catastrophic failures. They both could show up and not be any good at calling plays, which would really suck considering we need our Sean payton.

Yep they could suck.

As someone who's spent his whole professional life studying human behaviour, I'd say there's a better chance they become good play callers than McDaniels becomes a good enough human to be a HC.

But none of us know obviously. Would be fascinating to hear McDaniels explain away Denver though. Id be really intrigued.

 

[SugarWalls]

Yep they could suck.

As someone who's spent his whole professional life studying human behaviour, I'd say there's a better chance they become good play callers than McDaniels becomes a good enough human to be a HC.

But none of us know obviously. Would be fascinating to hear McDaniels explain away Denver though. Id be really intrigued.

Well lets see he left the greatest franchise the NFL has seen in some time and arguably the greatest QB of all time to go to the Denver Broncos and smoking Jay Cutler. There is absolutely no excuse for the way he carried himself and the way he treated others, but I can see why it would be quite the lesson to learn. I have to imagine that getting fired a few times and being publicly humiliated has to a number on the ego. Did he learn from it? Maybe. He was a huge disappointment in Denver and has been ripped for it pretty damn good.

 

[PeterMbangala]

Well lets see he left the greatest franchise the NFL has seen in some time and arguably the greatest QB of all time to go to the Denver Broncos and smoking Jay Cutler. There is absolutely no excuse for the way he carried himself and the way he treated others, but I can see why it would be quite the lesson to learn. I have to imagine that getting fired a few times and being publicly humiliated has to a number on the ego. Did he learn from it? Maybe. He was a huge disappointment in Denver and has been ripped for it pretty damn good.

I'm not saying it (McDaniels not being an asshole) couldn't happen, just that the chances of it happening are low.

In my experience it takes a seismic shift or intervention to bring about a change in behaviour like that. McDaniels' fall was big but he's been back with the Patriots for seven years now. During that time he's generally been lauded as an offensive genius and had Tom Brady and BB to work with. I doubt that is the sort of environment that would lead most people to conduct much soul searching or self analysis.

It's just a huge risk and I’m not massively reassured by his lessons learned spreadsheet!

 

[Myk]

How can you make that decision so easily?!?!?!?! I like DeFelippo but come on... he has been an OC for what 1 year? QB coach for the vast majority of his career and you just want to hand him the HC position. It can't be that easy.

That lack of experience is what has me wondering about college prospects. Seems all the top ones from the NFL are questionable or lack experience and could be flash in the pans.

McDaniels didn't like Cutler and it caused a huge fucking shit show. Was he wrong on Cutler? Pretty obvious to say that he wasn't wrong in wanting to replace the guy that led this very franchise to mediocrity for multiple seasons.

He may or may not have been wrong on Cutler. You're judging Cutler by what he became in Chicago. Where he was definitely wrong on Cutler was how he handled it. He created a situation where he was left with Orton or Tebow instead of being able to keep Cutler and try to find an upgrade.

That team didn't need a complete gutting/rebuild. By doing so, yeah he was as right on Cutler as the Bears were wrong thinking they don't need an oline or WRs around him for years. He was also wrong on Orton and Tebow because he was just wrong on what Broncos or any other team needs.

What's scary about him on the Bears, he would be more right coming here thinking we need a complete tear down including a different QB.

 

[PeterMbangala]

What's scary about him on the Bears, he would be more right coming here thinking we need a complete tear down including a different QB.

I’m assuming question one in the interview is about Trubisky. Can’t imagine anyone gets hired who isn’t all in on him.

 

[SugarWalls]

What's scary about him on the Bears, he would be more right coming here thinking we need a complete tear down including a different QB.

If he comes to Chicago it absolutely must be on the caveat that he is not the GM. Also, I don't think there is any chance he would be taking an interview or he would take this job if he didn't think very highly of Trubisky.

 

[Aesopian]

My main issue with Shurmur is that he is having success now under a really strong head coach, kind of like McDaniels, with ideal everything except for the QB.

Is Case Keemun playing out of his mind? Or is Shurmur that good?

Pat Shurmur did pretty well with the Browns he actually put some wins on the board with a bad team. Shurmur has shown he can coach.

 

[Hawkeye OG]

My main issue with Shurmur is that he is having success now under a really strong head coach, kind of like McDaniels, with ideal everything except for the QB.

Is Case Keemun playing out of his mind? Or is Shurmur that good?

Aren't all of the coaching candidates having success under a really strong head coach?