What does a successful rookie year look like for Caleb Williams?

[Spitta Andretti]

I didn't say a think about Fields, that wasn't the question that was posed. The question posed was expectations for Caleb Williams, not Justin Fields. So what is the point of your comment? This entire chain has nothing to do with Justin Fields.

Justin Fields also didn't come into the league as "the best QB since Andrew Luck" moniker that many are saying about Williams. Fields was always a highly talented project coming from Ohio State. Based on the media reports and many "experts" Williams is supposed to be the next coming of Jesus. So yeah, if he is supposed to be that good, then fuck yes he should accomplish what I said in my previous post. If people are saying he is the next Patrick Mahomes but with a stronger arm, then he absolutely better put up 4K yards and 25+ TDs. That should be the floor for him. NO ONE said that about Fields coming out of college, not a single person said he was the next big thing. They all said he was highly talented but had alot of issues he needed to clean up.

Personally, I am a Justin Fields fan and I would rather we keep him and get multiple picks to shore up the remaining holes on our team. I don't believe that Fields has been put in the best position to succeed as his OC's have been shit, BUT, Fields also has to improve in spite of his shit coaching.

So you're making excuses for Fields and demanding more from Caleb as a rookie. Got it.

 

[DefNextYear]

I didn't say a think about Fields, that wasn't the question that was posed. The question posed was expectations for Caleb Williams, not Justin Fields. So what is the point of your comment? This entire chain has nothing to do with Justin Fields.

Justin Fields also didn't come into the league as "the best QB since Andrew Luck" moniker that many are saying about Williams. Fields was always a highly talented project coming from Ohio State. Based on the media reports and many "experts" Williams is supposed to be the next coming of Jesus. So yeah, if he is supposed to be that good, then fuck yes he should accomplish what I said in my previous post. If people are saying he is the next Patrick Mahomes but with a stronger arm, then he absolutely better put up 4K yards and 25+ TDs. That should be the floor for him. NO ONE said that about Fields coming out of college, not a single person said he was the next big thing. They all said he was highly talented but had alot of issues he needed to clean up.

Personally, I am a Justin Fields fan and I would rather we keep him and get multiple picks to shore up the remaining holes on our team. I don't believe that Fields has been put in the best position to succeed as his OC's have been shit, BUT, Fields also has to improve in spite of his shit coaching.

What people say is irrelevant. The Bears draft him if they think (a) he's better than Fields and (b) he's the best option at the pick. They set expectations based on the people they pay out of their payroll to determine those expectations. You can maybe stack him against the expectations of other No. 1 picks if you want, but as an average... or you can define the bar set by people looking for clicks, but that's your own prerogative... one that's unimportant as I outlined in (a) and (b).

 

[Bearly]

I didn't say a think about Fields, that wasn't the question that was posed. The question posed was expectations for Caleb Williams, not Justin Fields. So what is the point of your comment? This entire chain has nothing to do with Justin Fields.

Justin Fields also didn't come into the league as "the best QB since Andrew Luck" moniker that many are saying about Williams. Fields was always a highly talented project coming from Ohio State. Based on the media reports and many "experts" Williams is supposed to be the next coming of Jesus. So yeah, if he is supposed to be that good, then fuck yes he should accomplish what I said in my previous post. If people are saying he is the next Patrick Mahomes but with a stronger arm, then he absolutely better put up 4K yards and 25+ TDs. That should be the floor for him. NO ONE said that about Fields coming out of college, not a single person said he was the next big thing. They all said he was highly talented but had alot of issues he needed to clean up.

Personally, I am a Justin Fields fan and I would rather we keep him and get multiple picks to shore up the remaining holes on our team. I don't believe that Fields has been put in the best position to succeed as his OC's have been shit, BUT, Fields also has to improve in spite of his shit coaching.

LOL. Who TF cares about the propaganda and all these straw men you need to knock down. I guess you'd hate to have Borrow or Herbert or Allen etc, etc. Justin gets year 4 but the new guy can't have year 2.

No QB is a sure thing and I would be OK if they trade with WA and take Maye if that's what they want to do, or even keep Fields as long as they do well with their decision overall. I have my preferences but I'm not basing those on some bullshit hype or unreasonable expectations. We absolutely need to get better at the position but I could give a shit about how that happens. What I do known is that at over 30 starts, you need to be relatively certain about your current QBs significantly greater potential to pass on this opportunity for a better roll of the dice.

 

[DB012031]

So you're making excuses for Fields and demanding more from Caleb as a rookie. Got it.

Didn't make any excuses at all. Please, show me where I made an excuse...Ill wait. Did I say that Justin didn't come into the best situation, yeah, that's true and most if not all Bears fans would agree to that statement (that doesn't make it an excuse it just makes it a fact). Did I not also say that Justin still has a lot of things to work on, yep, and again, would most not say the same thing? So please, tell me, where are the excuses I made?

Serious, what the fuck is your problem. Can you even read and understand context or nuance at all? Or do you just want to push whatever agenda you are trying to get across and not actually think outside your little box?

And Yes, I am expecting more from Caleb as a rookie than I did with Justin Fields. Most people are...Why...because they are coming in to the NFL at a different level in their careers.

Let me ask you this, do you hire people at your place of work? If you do, if one person comes in with all of the best recommendations, person is a can't miss prospect, you're going to have some pretty big expectations, yes? You're going to expect success pretty quickly, yes?

Now, let's say you had another candidate, and they were immensely talented but after talking with references, they were still a work in progress. There weren't as refined as the candidate above, they need extra work in certain areas to be successful. Would you expect them to kill it right away like the candidate above? Or, because everyone you talked to said they were work in progress, would you then understand it could take them longer to get results?

 

[Spitta Andretti]

Didn't make any excuses at all. Please, show me where I made an excuse...Ill wait. Did I say that Justin didn't come into the best situation, yeah, that's true and most if not all Bears fans would agree to that statement (that doesn't make it an excuse it just makes it a fact). Did I not also say that Justin still has a lot of things to work on, yep, and again, would most not say the same thing? So please, tell me, where are the excuses I made?

Serious, what the fuck is your problem. Can you even read and understand context or nuance at all? Or do you just want to push whatever agenda you are trying to get across and not actually think outside your little box?

And Yes, I am expecting more from Caleb as a rookie than I did with Justin Fields. Most people are...Why...because they are coming in to the NFL at a different level in their careers.

Let me ask you this, do you hire people at your place of work? If you do, if one person comes in with all of the best recommendations, person is a can't miss prospect, you're going to have some pretty big expectations, yes? You're going to expect success pretty quickly, yes?

Now, let's say you had another candidate, and they were immensely talented but after talking with references, they were still a work in progress. There weren't as refined as the candidate above, they need extra work in certain areas to be successful. Would you expect them to kill it right away like the candidate above? Or, because everyone you talked to said they were work in progress, would you then understand it could take them longer to get results?

I'm going to hold him to the same standards as rookie Justin Fields. Then the same for his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

Justin Fields fans don't like that because they know its is a low bar

 

[MakeMyDay]

Hopfully he has a handful of hand offs and a handful of passes for out of reach games and sits the bench all season..

All the while Bagent takes us into the play offs and we can then trade him in the offseason.

We keep the draft capitol train rolling.

 

[DB012031]

LOL. Who TF cares about the propaganda and all these straw men you need to knock down. I guess you'd hate to have Borrow or Herbert or Allen etc, etc. Justin gets year 4 but the new guy can't have year 2.

No QB is a sure thing and I would be OK if they trade with WA and take Maye if that's what they want to do, or even keep Fields as long as they do well with their decision overall. I have my preferences but I'm not basing those on some bullshit hype or unreasonable expectations. We absolutely need to get better at the position but I could give a shit about how that happens. What I do known is that at over 30 starts, you need to be relatively certain about your current QBs significantly greater potential to pass on this opportunity for a better roll of the dice.

What the heck are you talking about via propaganda and strawmen? Analysts, pundits, former coaches, etc have for the most part said CW is a can't miss prospect, yes? Best we have seen since Andrew Luck, yes? Good, bad or indifferent, if everyone says you are "that guy" then yes, the expectations are going to be higher for that individual, which was my point.

No kidding we have to get better at QB, Bears have had the worst QB situation in all of football for basically an eternity. All I have said is personally, I don't care for CW after watching about 20 of his games the past 2 years at USC. I think the Bears are better of trading that #1 pick and filling a lot of holes on the team in what also is a pretty weak FA class. Filling those gaps can help cover up the deficiencies of Fields, for now, and then they can use future assets in 2025 to fill in the missing link at QB.

I mean, if we could find an OC that used fields like Baltimore, Philly and Buffalo use their mobile QB's, are we even having this discussion?

Let me ask you this, if we took the average of Lamar's 1 MVP years: 3400 yards passing and 30 TD's, would that be good enough for Fields where this conversation isn't happening?

 

[DB012031]

I'm going to hold him to the same standards as rookie Justin Fields. Then the same for his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

Justin Fields fans don't like that because they know its is a low bar

If you want to hold the #1 over all pick to those standards, then so be it, but that's pretty disappointing then. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. Going #1 over all has higher expectations than any other pick in the draft, especially when its a QB. Doesn't mean it's right or fair but it is what it is.

Also, by that logic, then you also expect Caleb Williams to run for 1000 yards in a season? I mean, same expectations, right? Or, perhaps, since Caleb is supposed to be a more polished passer, maybe he should throw for more yards but run for less?

 

[Spitta Andretti]

If you want to hold the #1 over all pick to those standards, then so be it, but that's pretty disappointing then. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. Going #1 over all has higher expectations than any other pick in the draft, especially when its a QB. Doesn't mean it's right or fair but it is what it is.

Also, by that logic, then you also expect Caleb Williams to run for 1000 yards in a season? I mean, same expectations, right? Or, perhaps, since Caleb is supposed to be a more polished passer, maybe he should throw for more yards but run for less?

They spent 2 first round picks on Justin Fields. They traded up to get him.

I expect Caleb to be a better passer than Justin. Thats what it pretty much boils down to

 

[playthrough2001]

10 wins
3,500 yards passing
300 rush yards
4 Rush TDs
25 TD passes
8 Ints
62% Completion percentage

If they add some additional weapons, I think he can do this as a rookie.

 

[Butkus34]

for the Bears to have an offense that makes it look easy. Not worried about stats or anything like that no matter who the qb is. Just make playing football look easy. Too many times watching the Bears offense, they make it look like it is an incredible feat to move the football. Then other teams go out there and it looks like everyone knows what they are doing and things run smoothly.

 

[Bearly]

What the heck are you talking about via propaganda and strawmen? Analysts, pundits, former coaches, etc have for the most part said CW is a can't miss prospect, yes? Best we have seen since Andrew Luck, yes? Good, bad or indifferent, if everyone says you are "that guy" then yes, the expectations are going to be higher for that individual, which was my point.

No kidding we have to get better at QB, Bears have had the worst QB situation in all of football for basically an eternity. All I have said is personally, I don't care for CW after watching about 20 of his games the past 2 years at USC. I think the Bears are better of trading that #1 pick and filling a lot of holes on the team in what also is a pretty weak FA class. Filling those gaps can help cover up the deficiencies of Fields, for now, and then they can use future assets in 2025 to fill in the missing link at QB.

I mean, if we could find an OC that used fields like Baltimore, Philly and Buffalo use their mobile QB's, are we even having this discussion?

Let me ask you this, if we took the average of Lamar's 1 MVP years: 3400 yards passing and 30 TD's, would that be good enough for Fields where this conversation isn't happening?

So much copium. Elway and Manning were considered generational prospects by the pundits of their day. You'd have dismissed them after year1. It's an incredibly biased take on NFL QB development. I could ask you to check out the passing stats on those mobile QBs that you've mentioned but that also wouldn't be fair to Justin. None of this is about #s or scheme. It's about seeing the field and reacting in kind. I don't care about the yards or sacks or fumbles or runs or TDs or INTs specifically. I care about how they happen and the processing involved. It's great that Fields is as talented as anyone but I want a guy that can overcome due to higher end processing besides the skill set.

Check out Fields 4th quarter stats when teams tend to win or lose games with ball control or come backs and get back to me. His 4th qrt rating is 53. When it really counts (within 7) points, it's 34.

Even with that, I haven't given up on him but there's a reason I'd prefer another roll of the dice.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

So much copium. Elway and Manning were considered generational prospects by the pundits of their day. You'd have dismissed them after year1. It's an incredibly biased take on NFL QB development. I could ask you to check out the passing stats on those mobile QBs that you've mentioned but that also wouldn't be fair to Justin. None of this is about #s or scheme. It's about seeing the field and reacting in kind. I don't care about the yards or sacks or fumbles or runs or TDs or INTs specifically. I care about how they happen and the processing involved. It's great that Fields is as talented as anyone but I want a guy that can overcome due to higher end processing besides the skill set.

Check out Fields 4th quarter stats when teams tend to win or lose games with ball control or come backs and get back to me. His 4th qrt rating is 53. When it really counts (within 7) points, it's 34.

Even with that, I haven't given up on him but there's a reason I'd prefer another roll of the dice.

Rick Spielman was on Waddle and Silva and compared Justin to Javy Baez. All flash but just missing that one thing to keep him consistent.

 

[DB012031]

They spent 2 first round picks on Justin Fields. They traded up to get him.

I expect Caleb to be a better passer than Justin. Thats what it pretty much boils down to

Something we both agree on, Caleb absolutely should be a better passer than Fields.

Ill add, what it boils down to more though for this particular year, is Caleb Williams "That Guy" where you'd be willing to forgo the additional picks you would get by trading out of #1. Thats the big question.

The Bears are not a plug and play team right now (like the 49ers are, for example). They have some holes and this years FA crop isn't that great. So, do you think Caleb will be so franchise altering that you have to draft him or do you essentially trade him for several picks and fill those holes on the team and give it another go with Fields (also knowing that they could draft a QB in 2025 because by trading Williams, they would have multiple 1st round picks that year).

If the Bears were a ready made team, then I would probably change my tune and say fuck it, draft Williams. But knowing we need at least 2 more starting caliber o-linemen, at least 2 more starting caliber D-Linemen, a starting Safety and potentially another Starting DB, I'd consider selling on Williams and build up the team and look again in 2025

 

[pdxbearsfan]

In your opinion, what does a realistic, successful rookie year look like for the CW with the Bears.

Win amount and Yards/TDs/INTs?

Let's not jump the shark just yet, wait and see if he ends up here first. We can print the SB tickets later.

 

[playthrough2001]

No matter what, it will be a process. I was at Andrew Luck’s first regular season game as a professional. He was 23-45 for 309 yards with one TD pass and three interceptions. The Bears pounded the Colts that day and Luck struggled but you could see glimmers of the talent. I’m sure Williams will have days like that too.

Alshon Jeffery made his pro debut that day too. He caught three balls for 80 yards with a long TD.

 

[airtime143]

IF the bears go williams, I would fully expect a season in the neighborhood of 3500 yards, 25 tds and maybe a dozen picks- 62 completion percentage.

The bears offense as a whole IMO was limited by Justin and his faults. I hink his lack of vision left a lot of plays on the field, and his unnecessary sacks and his fumbles not only killed those plays, it left the team in predictable spots. A legit top end pick should be able to exceed Justin year one.

I think a promising rookie should be able to hit over 200 yards per game, a td and a half, and should be able to limit the picks.

There are 17 games, The bears have some playmakers, the game heavily favors passing, and anything less than the above over 17 games would be disappointing- It is middle of the pack for league offense- something a 17 game starter should be able to achieve with talent (which a #1 pick better have) and a good supporting cast, which I believe the bears have.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

A winning record, twice as many TDs to INTs (or near...ex: 18 TDs to 10 Ints is acceptable,,,22 to 12...you get the point), 60% or better Completion rate, movement in/out of the pocket and making plays downfield and NOT running the first chance he gets, Quick reads, Quick release, quick progression thru the reads, you get the adjective I'm using, right?, showing Leadership qualities, shows the ability to make big plays especially when behind in the score and unequivocally in the 4th Quarter. Now, I'm not saying he will do it every time, but to show a propensity to make come from behind plays. And as Post #2 says....show "progress from game to game." And yes...there will be 'stinkers', but hopefully a minimum amount.

Pretty low bar for a "generational QB".
They already have a guy that can/will blow those stats away that folks want to dump.
Bunch of hypocrites for a shing new toy that will wear off quickly like a new set of golf clubs,
oh, wait it wasn't the old clubs after all.

 

[DB012031]

So much copium. Elway and Manning were considered generational prospects by the pundits of their day. You'd have dismissed them after year1. It's an incredibly biased take on NFL QB development. I could ask you to check out the passing stats on those mobile QBs that you've mentioned but that also wouldn't be fair to Justin. None of this is about #s or scheme. It's about seeing the field and reacting in kind. I don't care about the yards or sacks or fumbles or runs or TDs or INTs specifically. I care about how they happen and the processing involved. It's great that Fields is as talented as anyone but I want a guy that can overcome due to higher end processing besides the skill set.

Check out Fields 4th quarter stats when teams tend to win or lose games with ball control or come backs and get back to me. His 4th qrt rating is 53. When it really counts (within 7) points, it's 34.

Even with that, I haven't given up on him but there's a reason I'd prefer another roll of the dice.

Those are absolutely fair comments. As for Elway and Manning (I assume you mean Peyton and not "the other one") those are fair points but as a caveat, it was also a much different era and game at the time. With the new contract rules, Free Agency and the need to "win now" who knows. Also (had to check the stats), Peyton Manning was already in the MVP discussion his 2nd and 3rd year in the league (finished 2nd and 5th) and in his rookie year, people like to bring up the 28 INTS (ouch) but he also threw for 3700 Yards and 25 TD's as well (better than almost any Bear QB ever in our history). Elway is an interesting story because his stats never really lined up with his hype (56% career completion % stunned me, I was sure it was much higher).

But, I 100% agree with what you were saying (and to paraphrase) its a lot about feel for the game (is that a fair comparison to what you said above)? When I watched CJ Stroud at OSU, I thought kid was a stud but almost felt like Ryan Day was holding him back. After this first year, I was like yep, Ryan Day was holding him back because CJ was showing things we never got to see in College. I feel the same way about JJ McCarthy this year, I think people are going to be surprised about how his NFL career will go. I personally thing he may be the best QB in this class 10 years down the road.

I watch Caleb Williams and I see someone in between Johnny Manziel and Baker Mayfield. I just don't think he is the guy you want to stake a #1 pick on. If the Bears were to get a QB, I wouldn't mind waiting until 2025 because we will have multiple 1st picks (assuming we trade out of #1) and the Bears can build a "complete" team. Right now, there are still alot of holes on this team

 

[Bearcub13]

In your opinion, what does a realistic, successful rookie year look like for the CW with the Bears.

Win amount and Yards/TDs/INTs?

Well he will be a Falcon, so no comment...